Hardley's Troubles Continue

[UtahPete]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/mot...o-close/ar-BBItTW5?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Article says lower sales is reason for closure and never mentions new tax law. Maybe by going electric they will be able to dominate a newer (green) market.

The USA Today article mentions the charge to earnings associated with the tax cut. I don't understand that at all.

The world's largest maker of heavyweight motorcycles has struggled to reverse a four-year sales slide, with growth overseas somewhat helping offset a decline in the U.S. bike market. The Milwaukee-based company said its net income fell 82% in its fiscal fourth quarter to $8.3 million, compared with a year earlier. Earnings per share were 5 cents, down from 27 cents a year earlier. Revenue was $1.23 billion, up from $1.11 billion. The earnings drop came in part because of a charge associated with President Trump's tax cut and a $29.4 million charge for a voluntary product recall.

 

[Bob Denman]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/mot...o-close/ar-BBItTW5?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Article says lower sales is reason for closure and never mentions new tax law. Maybe by going electric they will be able to dominate a newer (green) market.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-making-an-electric-motorcycle-after-livewire

But with just a 50 mile range: it's way behind the bikes that Zero is already building... Give them another 18 Months, and they'll just fall further behind. :gaah:

We saw "Live Wire" back in 2014...

 

[PocoToro]

The real problem at Harley

"The Harley is better because you have more to by to BLING it......More Farkling" PS Where is the road test. Did the Spyder win on the road ????

And This

The Harley is at it's limits around the corners. And the Spyder is just cruising around.


I've yet to have a Harley keep up when the road ant straight.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

See here for some excerpts from another article about HD.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-Sales-in-US&p=1332879&viewfull=1#post1332879

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The earnings drop came in part because of a charge associated with President Trump's tax cut and a $29.4 million charge for a voluntary product recall.

Think about it for a minute. If you have $1,000,000 in charges that will reduce your taxable income, it makes sense to move it to the tax year where the tax rate is 35% instead of waiting when the tax rate drops to 20%. In other words, the greater the expense the greater its impact at a higher tax rate.

 

[MR. H1956]

The G M plant in spring hill tn lost 800 workers before thanksgiving last yr. They called it a change over to more technology. And a electric car line being added. Their stock didn't drop that I remember. But H D has been on a down turn for awhile anyway. Can't blame trump for that problem.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Yah, their stocks dropped too. Just means the Exec's gotta buy smaller islands or yachts next yeaar.

Not just HD.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...fter-1-900-point-early-year-rally/1078066001/

 

[bikerbillone]

You didn't look hard enough:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/01/30/harley-davidson-kansas-city-plant-motorcycle-sales-fall/1078008001/

Electric? Do think the same customers who wouldn't buy the water-cooled Hardley would pony up big bucks for a bike that didn't offend everyone with its loud exhaust?

Buy an electric m/c? Very few can afford one, and the range, recharge? Too many speed bumps, I don't see it happening for a very long time. I don't believe you will see a Harley guy buying an electric motorcycle, where's the Harley sound coming from?

 

[RinconRyder]

Buy an electric m/c? Very few can afford one, and the range, recharge? Too many speed bumps, I don't see it happening for a very long time. I don't believe you will see a Harley guy buying an electric motorcycle, where's the Harley sound coming from?

Me either. An electric bike might be a good choice for commuting if it had the range and you lived in a temperate climate. I used to commute 16 miles each year round here in Phoenix but I don't see it happening in USA's winter elsewhere.

Then again.....maybe H-D suits will get so desperate they will change their logo to:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...juxMTa5ILZAhVK3WMKHRoxDAwQ_B0IlgEwCg..i&w=261

 

[Bob Denman]

I didn't know that Reddi was such a badass! :thumbup:

 

[bikerbillone]

Yes, HD will need their best marketing minds to sell electric m/c's and VRods.

 

[Rogue Hawk]

I like the new Fat Bob, but the price, I mean, get real. And I can get a Diavel for the same price that will blow the bars off it.

 

[UtahPete]

Think about it for a minute. If you have $1,000,000 in charges that will reduce your taxable income, it makes sense to move it to the tax year where the tax rate is 35% instead of waiting when the tax rate drops to 20%. In other words, the greater the expense the greater its impact at a higher tax rate.

Yeah, but how do you charge to 2017 expenses that will fall within the 2018 tax year to 2017? I've heard of deferring revenue and expenses to future years, but not charging 'future' expenses to the current year...would love to see a better explanation of the current charge to earnings for something that hasn't happened yet.

Accrued expenses, after all, aren't 'future' expenses but rather expenses incurred in the current period that have not yet been paid for.

Reuters says "NET INCOME AND EPS IN QUARTER ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY A $53.1 MILLION INCOME TAX CHARGE RELATED TO ENACTMENT OF 2017 TAX CUTS AND JOBS ACT"

So, again I ask - why would H-D incur a charge to earnings of $53 million because of a tax CUT? Usually tax cuts result in a reduction of expenses, not an increase.

 

[Bob Denman]

Yeah, but how do you charge expenses that will fall within the 2018 tax year to 2017? I've heard of deferring revenue and expenses to future years, but not charging future expenses to the current year....

You just need to have the right Attorneys! :clap:

 

[UtahPete]

You just need to have the right Attorneys! :clap:

View attachment 157419

Or the right congressman...:gaah:

 

[bikerbillone]

Or CPA with a sharp pencil.....That's like, Mr. tax man, which shell is it under then dig out the evidence if called upon, that's stress.

 

[Bob Denman]

My Tax Guy is up for parole in March: just in time for Tax Season! :2thumbs: :joke:

 

[RinconRyder]

Yeah, but how do you charge to 2017 expenses that will fall within the 2018 tax year to 2017? I've heard of deferring revenue and expenses to future years, but not charging 'future' expenses to the current year...would love to see a better explanation of the current charge to earnings for something that hasn't happened yet.

Accrued expenses, after all, aren't 'future' expenses but rather expenses incurred in the current period that have not yet been paid for.

Reuters says "NET INCOME AND EPS IN QUARTER ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY A $53.1 MILLION INCOME TAX CHARGE RELATED TO ENACTMENT OF 2017 TAX CUTS AND JOBS ACT"

So, again I ask - why would H-D incur a charge to earnings of $53 million because of a tax CUT? Usually tax cuts result in a reduction of expenses, not an increase.

Bear in mind that corporations can have tax years which are not in concert with the calendar year. The federal gubmint is a good example as its accounting year ends June 30 (I think). The IRS doesn't really care about your accounting calendar dates but it does want consistency so you can't be changing it.

 

[ARtraveler]

Yeah, but how do you charge to 2017 expenses that will fall within the 2018 tax year to 2017? I've heard of deferring revenue and expenses to future years, but not charging 'future' expenses to the current year...would love to see a better explanation of the current charge to earnings for something that hasn't happened yet.

Accrued expenses, after all, aren't 'future' expenses but rather expenses incurred in the current period that have not yet been paid for.

Reuters says "NET INCOME AND EPS IN QUARTER ADVERSELY IMPACTED BY A $53.1 MILLION INCOME TAX CHARGE RELATED TO ENACTMENT OF 2017 TAX CUTS AND JOBS ACT"

So, again I ask - why would H-D incur a charge to earnings of $53 million because of a tax CUT? Usually tax cuts result in a reduction of expenses, not an increase.

Yup! Good accounting talk from a fellow CPA. GAAP and the matching principle state that expenses of the period must be matched with the revenues of the period. Companies are not supposed to "play" with depreciation expenses, or inventory levels in order to leverage better taxes. That's what audits are for. Sarbanes-Oxley (SOX) is supposed to take care of that--now that Enron is dead. opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[UtahPete]

Bear in mind that corporations can have tax years which are not in concert with the calendar year. The federal gubmint is a good example as its accounting year ends June 30 (I think). The IRS doesn't really care about your accounting calendar dates but it does want consistency so you can't be changing it.

Yes, I realize that. I was a CPA in California for years (auditor for Touche Ross & Co) and had to deal with that complexity on a regular basis. My understanding is that the new tax law goes into effect for individuals and corporations when they file their 2018 tax returns (regardless of the calendar dates).