Got Limp & Codes U0073, U0122, U0100, C0060, P0556, P0504, U0101, U0128, U0295, U0303

[amusher]

If I could just find a wiring schematic I could read it would help. The one in my manual is unreadable. A relay somewhere does sound like the answer, but where?? I'm almost sure something shook loose and it's probably just a matter of tracing it down and resetting it. What a pain.

I can't find that U0073 code. What does it say???

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

If I could just find a wiring schematic I could read it would help. The one in my manual is unreadable. A relay somewhere does sound like the answer, but where?? I'm almost sure something shook loose and it's probably just a matter of tracing it down and resetting it. What a pain.

I can't find that U0073 code. What does it say???

Ok. So it's kinda like this. About the time that the 1330 was making the scene, I began to notice that the Fault Code list in the shop manuals were more and more incomplete. BRP expects techs to use BUDS for all this stuff. So, you go into BUDS/BUDS2 and call up a Demo File and look at all of the codes for your machine, or a machine close to your model year.

U0073 simply says, "Can-Bus Failure, CAN-Bus Off." It then gives three variations of that for the Cluster, the WPM and the VCM. Corrective actions include a bunch of continuity readings to look for damaged wiring or damaged pins. All of those continuity checks you're not going to do because they won't make any sense to you if you can't read the diagram, and probably aren't the cause, anyway. They never are. So, you can check all of those connectors to ensure that they are all plugged in and the locking device is set properly, or some kind of wire harness damage.

If you are focused on the wash-board road and vibration as the cause, then that takes us back to the fuses, relays and battery terminals. Vibration can cause the fusible element inside a fuse to break with no visible indication of failure. You have to test them. Many folks on here have talked about finding corrosion inside of their fuse box. All of the relays are inside the same fuse boxes with the fuses. And we all know about loose and corroded battery terminals. A little vibration and you lose good electrical contact.

Bert said that this probably won't be easy. Correct. But at least start with the easy stuff and check it all.

 

[amusher]

Thank you. I've checked the fuses that are associated with the ECM, VCM and TCM. All good. Battery cables are all clean and tight. The relays in the fuse boxes seem pretty specific about what they power. If there are others within the wiring somewhere else, I don't know where to look without wiring diagram. Do you know of a way to get to the back of the fuse boxes to check the connections there?

 

[amusher]

Has anyone ever opened the ECM and TCM up ??

 

[BertRemington]

Has anyone ever opened the ECM and TCM up ??

amusher -- things are getting weird here. Time to get back to the real world.*

It seems you haven't purchased a service manual. Time to buy one (about $20-$30). Next read it particularly the section on Electronic Engine Management. And then find some friend(s) who are comfortable with troubleshooting automotive electronics. Because we're gonna dig into your CANBUS.

Buy a CANBUS sniffer that your friend recommends. Not an OBD code reader. You need to see the CANBUS messages themselves. The Spyder's CANBUS interface is the Deutsch DB6 up by the frunk used by BUDS. You don't need the connector if you are careful about inserting probes but I recommend buying a connector. They're easy to assemble.

Turn on your ignition and collect the CANBUS messages with your sniffer until the Limp mode comes on. There will be 1000s if not 10s of 1000s.

Load those messages into Excel with each part of the message in a different column. Sort the messages by sender. Tell us the identifiers of different senders. We pretty much know all the sender identifiers so we'll be looking for who isn't on the CANBUS.

Some sniffers insert NUL characters into the captured message stream. Screws up Excel and other software. If this happens you can remove them with Notepad++.

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* if you continue down this path, my opening bid is $1,000. Because if you start opening those Bosch electronics your Spyder's value is going to fall off a cliff. PS I paid $9,000 for my Spyder which included a RT-622 trailer.

 

[amusher]

No, I'm not planning on taking them apart, just curious.. I've got a manual but it's not helping much. Since I'm the one who does most of the work needed on my friends' bikes, they won't be much help to me. And these electronics are pretty much more than I deal with. I've got an appointment with the shop Oct 8th but I'm still trying to check connectors etc. to save taking it in.. I've got the frunk off so I can see the wiring a little better but nothing jumps out.. What you're suggesting is a little more than I think I'm capable of..I know something just came loose but where.

 

[BertRemington]

Okay let's try some hardcore trouble-shooting as SS recommends is needed.

Remove each and every fuse and measure their continuity with your DVOM.

With the Ignition Off measure the following resistances at the DB6 BUDS connector:

CANBUS Low to CANBUS High
CANBUS Low to Ground
CANBUS High to Ground

Be careful. One of those DB6 pins is always powered on.

How much of the bodywork have you taken off? The next step is testing the eleven members on the CANBUS.

You say you can't read the schematic yet you have an electronic version. Please explain exactly how it is unreadable.

Have you read the section on Controller Area Network (CANBUS)? Good, read it again. Also the section on Vehicle Stability System (VSS).

Post some pictures of the console when you first turn Ignition On, immediately after fuel pressurization is completed, immediately after the safety timeout, and when Limp mode begins.

Also re-read your fault codes to see if there are any new ones or if any went away.

 

[SpyderJerry]

Check the pin soldier points on the gauge cluster board where the connector plugs in. Had the same problem on a 2014 RT that I bought. Cluster does come apart and you can re solder the pins to the board, carefully.

 

[amusher]

Well apparently the manual I was given by a friend, isn't complete. It was for his 2015 RT and since he has a new 2022, he didn't need it.. But, its not all here... By the time I order one and get it, it will be time to take it in for my appt. anyway..

 

[BertRemington]

By the time I order one and get it, it will be time to take it in for my appt. anyway..

Try harder https://canammanuals.com/product/20...air-and-maintenance-manual-master-collection/

 

[racoon]

I grab copies of documents I need when I'm doing something in the garage and download them to my tablet computer.
Yeah, I have to clean the tablet after doing my wrenching, but it saves time.

 

[amusher]

Ok, where is the CANBUS located..??

 

[BertRemington]

Ok, where is the CANBUS located..??

I believe you mean the BUDS access point. The DB6 connector is located at the front right under the cover you need to remove for coolant access. There are five wires. You have to gently pull the connector out of its little storage pocket to access the pins. Be careful. There is always voltage on one of the pins so you can damage your Spyder or DVOM if a probe slips.

 

[amusher]

So those pins are the ones you told me to check, HI and LOW?
What are the 11 members you said to check?

 

[BertRemington]

That is correct -- CANBUS High and CANBUS Low. They are White wires with a stripe. For my Spyder the Black stripe is Low and the Beige stripe is High. The Black wire on the DB6 is Ground.

Both CANBUS circuits should be isolated from Ground. High-to-Low should be around 100ohms.

The eleven modules are described in the "Communication Between Modules Through the CAN Bus" section of your service manual. They are ECM TCM VCM SAS YRS DPS MSL WPM RDO instrument cluster and DLC (the DB6 connector itself).

The CANBUS itself is quite robust which makes fault isolation difficult. It wants to keep working in the presence of failures and often compensates in some manner. Powerful diagnostic tools are expensive and require expert knowledge to use effectively. BUDS could probably quickly isolate the disconnected module (I doubt you have a failed module) but it's kinda expensive too.

Let me give you an example. My RT-S came with an RDO so I saw the radio menus on the instrument screen. To incorporate the changes I'm making to my Spyder (currently on hold as I build a database for the local model railroad club) I disconnected the RDO because some module (probably the instrument console) did not receive an RTR response from the RDO. Now after the safety delay completes the radio menus no longer appear. Something similar is happening with your Spyder. Some module (probably the instrument console) is sending out RTR messages and some module is not replying in response. Since you are getting Limp mode it's likely one of the VSS-related modules.

 

[amusher]

So the 11 modules are in the instrument cluster?

 

[BertRemington]

No, the instrument cluster is one of the eleven.

I'm getting nervous here. Did you buy and read that $24.50 service manual I suggested in message #30? If you haven't then we're really not able to move forward with a solution before your dealer appointment. Apologies I couldn't help more. Goodbye.

 

[amusher]

I've got the manual.. I just don't understand where I'm suppose to check the 11 mods. Somewhere on each one??
I appreciate everyone's help but I guess this is more than I can do myself..

 

[Lew L]

.

Vibration KILLS batteries. The battery may show 12+ volts, but it will not flow enough AMPERAGE to run much on the Spyder. Could be ':a cracked cell connector or sulfates falling to the bottom of the case. Just something else to try.....

Lew L

 

[Mikey]

Sometimes it time to step back and know when you're over your head. I know it's scary to turn your bike over to someone you don't know or trust, but if that person has the right tools for the job, you have to hope he knows how to use them!! It's better than poking and praying with nothing in your hands. Good luck!!