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Gas line causing fires??

Lamonster said:
I guess I'll be the only guy that is not concerned about this. Rubbing and wearing out a hose is bad and there's nothing wrong with putting a little extra protection on them but being close to a hot motor is not going to cause a fire. First off you need a open flame or spark to cause a fire, heat alone won't do it. If it did then my Boss Hoss would have burst into flames years ago. That thing got so hot that the gas would boil in the tank at times. nojoke

I think fumes and a open spark are the most likely cause of these fires that we've seen to date. The question is where are the gas fumes and open spark coming from? :dontknow:
Click to expand...

Sounds resonable - was just thinking *if* the hose was to rub all the way through - then gas could spray all over.

Still not sure what the ignition source would be??

So if gas was to squirt out of a hole rubbed in the gas line - what would it take to ignite it? Would gas spraying down onto hot pipes ignite?:dontknow:

I'm just thinking for these fires to burn as much as they do that fuel must be getting out somehow.:dontknow:

Guess I should have worded this thread 'possible source of fuel for fires---' ;)

I've spilled plenty of gas on tractor engines, etc. and never had it catch fire.

Didn't mean to cause any undue alarm --- just don't like hoses rubbing and eventually wearing out - especially when they carry gas.


I still think the evap canister is a likely source of the fumes.
 
I have a pressure washer that has the fuel tank right next to the hot exhaust. More than once have I ran out of gas and over filled the tank and it spilled over to the hot pipe.:opps: Never had a fire.

You pretty much need a spark in our case to light anything. It could be fumes from the evap can igniting but you still need a open spark to ignite those fumes. Even then the fuel air ratio has to be just right or it won't light. Ask Ron "the Fireman" how much trouble we had getting a flame thrower to work on my Valkyrie. :gaah:
 
Lamonster said:
I have a pressure washer that has the fuel tank right next to the hot exhaust. More than once have I ran out of gas and over filled the tank and it spilled over to the hot pipe.:opps: Never had a fire.

You pretty much need a spark in our case to light anything. It could be fumes from the evap can igniting but you still need a open spark to ignite those fumes. Even then the fuel air ratio has to be just right or it won't light. Ask Ron "the Fireman" how much trouble we had getting a flame thrower to work on my Valkyrie. :gaah:
Click to expand...
The ignition temperature of gasoline is 495 degrees F. Gas vapors will ignite on an air-cooled engine, but it is difficult. They can ignite readily on a hot exhaust. Less likely on the surface of a water-cooled engine. Raw gas on a hot surface (above -40 degrees) will turn to vapors immediately, and can also ignite with an adequate ignition source. The warmer the surface the easier this occurs. The air-fuel ratio has to be within the flammable limits for combustion to occur. There also has to be an ignition source (above the ignition temperature). A flame is the easiest way to start a fire. A hot exhaust or similar surface works well, but not as well. It is difficult to get a spark to ignite gasoline unless one of two things occurs; either the spark must be relatively continuous, or the gas vapors must be compressed. That is the reason you have a compression ratio in an engine, the gasoline doesn't ignite well at ambient pressures with a single spark. A hotter spark, a magneto for instance, makes the job easier. In an less confined space than an engine cylinder, a repeated spark from a bad wire could theoretically ignite a fire without compression. All that being said, it is still difficult to start a fire on the right side of a Spyder, IMO. I think the factory was wise to put the evap canister and fuel lines there. Why these fires started is still a mystery, and we should not read too much into any theories. If you wish to reroute or protect your fuel lines, do so for reliability......not fire prevention.
 
What's unfortunate is that BRP has worked on this thing for ten years and owners should not have to wrap, reroute or replace fuel line components. If BRP had to pay to remedy this issue, it would be a huge labor cost as getting to these lines is not easy. I agree that spark and vapors are fire hazards and not just heat and liquid fuel, but it is just weak design to place these lines in locations where wear can occur and where they are very difficult to inspect without dismantling the bike.
 
BRP may have addressed this issue in the 2009 models.

Spyder#2 is a 2009 SM5. The gasoline supply line from the filter forward is sheathed in the ribbed plastic conduit used for electrical wires. The conduit almost touches the engine, but it is not chaffing. Plastic conduit is also used for other gas lines. I have not yet done a thorough inspection of the radiator hoses and other issues, but I will do so.

I seem to remember that BRP had a similar problem with their snowmobiles in 2008 (gas line rubbing on engine). There were fires and a recall. I may not have my facts right here.

It seems the plastic conduit should prevent the chaffing experienced by Firefly. I will keep an eye on it just to make sure.
 
We checked ours today - it wasn't rubbing or close to the engine. Guess it all depends on who's putting them together? You could have one good tech and one that's out to lunch in his head somewhere.:dontknow:
 
I'm not sure what the cause of the snowmobile fires was - but I do know that BRP had a recall for that problem. Scotty and Lamont make very good points about needing an ignition source - as well as the gas being in a vapor form - I just wasn't happy about the fuel line getting worn from the rubbing and thought it could be a contributing factor.

I wasn't too concerned about the various hoses touching the engine until I saw the damage caused to the fuel line. I'm still not too keen on the evap canister setup - the 'overflow' hose is directed down towards the the exhaust. Dunno what kind of problems this could cause??:dontknow:

I'll defer to Scotty and Lamont on the particulars as they have much more experience on this kind of thing than I do. I just hope we can find the problem before anyone gets hurt.

Any BRP snowmobile owners out here that know what the 'fix' was for that recall??
 
Some changes in 08 model

After reading this thread, I decided to check out our Spyders. It was a pleasent surprise to find BRP has made some improvements by covering the fuel line and making it longer so it lays away from the various problem areas noted. The left side of the engine has the same improvement. These are from SpyderCrazy's SE5, I hope to check mine out before the weekend.

Thanks for your post.
 
demopkg said:
After reading this thread, I decided to check out our Spyders. It was a pleasent surprise to find BRP has made some improvements by covering the fuel line and making it longer so it lays away from the various problem areas noted. The left side of the engine has the same improvement. These are from SpyderCrazy's SE5, I hope to check mine out before the weekend.

Thanks for your post.
Click to expand...

So you're saying these changes were made to the 2009 model Spyders???
 
demopkg said:
After reading this thread, I decided to check out our Spyders. It was a pleasent surprise to find BRP has made some improvements by covering the fuel line and making it longer so it lays away from the various problem areas noted. The left side of the engine has the same improvement. These are from SpyderCrazy's SE5, I hope to check mine out before the weekend.

Thanks for your post.
Click to expand...

THANKS for posting these pics!!!

Now I'm kind of pissed that they made these changes and didn't bother to have earlier models updated. They obviously knew there was a problem---- why else would they all the sudden wrap these???
 
Hey SpyderinKC, the pictures are from a 2008. SpyderCrazy's Red SE5 has a manufacture 'birth'date of 8/08 and my Silver SE5 has a 'birth'date of 9/08. I did check mine today and it does have the protective cover over the fuel lines.
 
demopkg said:
Hey SpyderinKC, the pictures are from a 2008. SpyderCrazy's Red SE5 has a manufacture 'birth'date of 8/08 and my Silver SE5 has a 'birth'date of 9/08. I did check mine today and it does have the protective cover over the fuel lines.
Click to expand...


Mine is a 2008 PE ---- so they obviously made a change after the PE units were gone.
 
demopkg said:
After reading this thread, I decided to check out our Spyders. It was a pleasent surprise to find BRP has made some improvements by covering the fuel line and making it longer so it lays away from the various problem areas noted. The left side of the engine has the same improvement. These are from SpyderCrazy's SE5, I hope to check mine out before the weekend.

Thanks for your post.
Click to expand...

Just checked my 09 SE5, I see the same improvements.
 
how about if we all pressure BRP to retrofit all the earlier Spyders? i don't have a PE and I'm not sure which setup I have...
 
demopkg said:
Hey SpyderinKC, the pictures are from a 2008. SpyderCrazy's Red SE5 has a manufacture 'birth'date of 8/08 and my Silver SE5 has a 'birth'date of 9/08. I did check mine today and it does have the protective cover over the fuel lines.
Click to expand...

Spyders with a manufacture date of 2008 may indeed be 2009 model Spyders. If they are anything like automobile manufacturers, their model changeover is actually in July or August of the previous year. 2009 model cars were being built back in July of 2008. July of 2009, they start building 2010 models.
 
demopkg said:
Hey SpyderinKC, the pictures are from a 2008. SpyderCrazy's Red SE5 has a manufacture 'birth'date of 8/08 and my Silver SE5 has a 'birth'date of 9/08. I did check mine today and it does have the protective cover over the fuel lines.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update! When I get a chance to take off my covers during my 600 mile oil change, I'll take a really close look. Just by peeking through the side with the covers on, it appears I have the plastic wrap around my lines...:2thumbs:
 
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