Fuel octane explained.

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'm an equal opportunity octane user. When I'm on long trips with long freeway stints, I'll use 87/10% ethanol to save $$ at upper 20's mpg. Blasting around locally, I'll alternate between 87/89/93 with 10% ethanol and 91 at 100% gas. I do get a warm/fuzzier feeling with premium . Transitioning to fall weather, with rides less frequent, I use 91 oct/100% gas. I start adding fuel stabilizer around this time of year (I'm in WI). I cannot feel any difference in performance, but do get the slight mpg improvement with 100% gas. Now, is it worth the .80/ga difference in cost to feel warm/fuzzy?

From what I know of the Spyder computer fuel mapping …. switching Octane's is not a good idea ….. the computer can actually learn what octane it's getting, and will makes changes to it's mapping …. It's takes a bit of time to do this …. and if you change what you are using even sometimes, the computer won't be able to give you maximum performance. If someone knows better please chime in ….. Mike hyea:

 

[BajaRon]

Interesting, FWI I have a 2019 F3t and run premium.
In years past I worked for a BRP dealer on Ski-Doo snowmobiles and Can Am atv's and went to several of their service schools. The later Rotax motors had a knock sensor on them to retard the timing for various reasons 1 of which was spark knock. We would test the knock sensor if we had one that showed signs of detonation by drawing a line on the clutch with a magic marker and making a pointer with a coat hanger, then tapping the side of the motor with a small hammer to see if it retarded the timing while it was running.
So the 1330 has a knock sensor on it. One of the ways it will now the difference in fuel is when it gets pre ignition or detonation. I don't know about you guys but I don't want to run my 1330 with the risk of either condition. Thats the reason you would never hear spark knock also. Other things like air Temp, altitude, etc also contribute to detonation as well as octane.

You are not going to get 'Knock' or 'Pre-Ignition' with your F3. As you say, the computer will compensate by retarding ignition.

But even with the lower octane fuels, the computer does not always have to compensate. It is just more likely to happen with a lower octane fuel. Again, as you say, it has to do with a combination of things including interior cylinder and spark plug temperature (which will be higher with a lower octane fuel in a high compression engine like the Spyder has). This is one reason it is important to apply thermal paste to the spark plug threads.

Originally, BRP went with a colder spark plug to help prevent negative ignition issues due to low octane. But people tended to lug the 998 which fouled plugs. So BRP went to a hotter spark plug to remedy this, though it brings with it the down side of the computer having to compensate for low octane fuels more than they did with the colder plug. But over all a good trade-off. Because everyone will detect a fouled spark plug. But few will detect retarded ignition timing.

 

[Northofthesix]

Here in the Great White North only PetroCannabis and Esso/Mobil have a grade above 91 (94 at PC and 93 at Esso) ..... so it's 91 for me. So far so good.

 

[rbell0]

All true and good info. I was trying to keep my post short so people would read it.

Something I noticed when testing knock sensors on Ski-Doo motors with a timing light is the timing would try to return to normal after the tap with a hammer. All of this was a bigger problem on 2 stroke than 4 stroke also.

I don't know how the 1330 does all this either, but it does have a knock sensor and Rotax built it.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

My experience with Octane

For what this may be worth :dontknow:... In my 08 GS and 11 RSS ( the V-twins ) I used 87*, they ran fine, no issues. When I purchased my new 2014 RT, it had the 1330 engine and a different ( higher ) octane recommendation.... My best friend is a Master mechanic and knows more abut the internal combustion engine than one I have EVER known ( a lot of mechanics )( He also owned a Spyder )… I asked Him about the " new " Octane thing. He hadn't ridden a Spyder with the 1330, so He took mine out for His ( torture ) tests. …. long story short … He said my RT would run fine on 87*, but He did say if He were to ride it with the Max weight capacity ( rider + passenger ) and a Max weight loaded trailer ( 400lbs. ) in very Hilly terrain He would use 91*, 89* if it was non-ethyl gas …… I have done this with good results ..... good luck …. Mike hyea:

 

[Sarge707]

93 on Both. Nothing but the Best for my babies!!!

 

[johnny canuck]

Hi Gom,
Running Premium (91 octane). Regular (87 oct) contains ethanal - at least in Canada it does. Try to avoid. Ethanal tends to draw water in from atmosphere.
Johnny
2017 RTL

 

[jaherbst]

I have seen a lot of wrong information on what octane we should be using in our spyders and also people using higher or lower octane than what they are suppose to be using per the manufacture spec's so here is a web site to go to and find out the truth about it. https://www.meineke.com/blog/using-premium-gasoline-really-save-money/. Hope this helps

Simple Question Simple Answer. What does your operators manual say?

Jack

 

[mcalva]

In Germany we have petrol with the following octane numbers (AON = Average Octane Number): Type "Super" with 90 and "SuperPlus" with 93. Spyder riders refuel "Super". Before 2011 we still had "regular petrol" at 87, but this no longer exists today.

In the USA, they use the PON or AKI octane index = (RON + MON) / 2.

87 AKI = ~ 92 RON
89 AKI = ~ 94 RON
91 AKI = ~ 96 RON
95 AKI = ~ 100 RON

I use 95 RON, equivalent to 90 AKI, here in Spain. Is the recommended one by the user's manual.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Simple Question Simple Answer. What does your operators manual say?

Jack

:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack: ….. There are many, many, many things in those BRP manuals that are absolutely false, like the size of the headlight bulbs …… Those manuals also state " If you get a code on the instrument cluster " ….IMMEDIATELY have your Spyder TOWED to the nearest Dealer for service …..How many times have you done that Jack ???? …. just sayin …. Mike hyea:

 

[troop]

I was guided to this awhile back (from the manual). Kinda misleading, as where can you find premium unleaded at 87 octane? Bottom line is minimum octane rating of 87, with 91/+ octane being recommended. I take it that the bike will run fine with 87 octane, but will likely perform better with 91/+ octane. I can't see BRP allowing a fuel that would cause harm to your motor...

Type Premium unleaded gasoline
87 Pump Posted AKI (RON+MON)/2 Minimum octane
92 RON
91 Pump Posted AKI (RON+MON)/2
Fuel - Refer to
FUEL REQUIREMENTS
Recommended octane
95 RON
Fuel tank capacity 27 L (7.1 U.S. gal.)

 

[BajaRon]

I was guided to this awhile back (from the manual). Kinda misleading, as where can you find premium unleaded at 87 octane? Bottom line is minimum octane rating of 87, with 91/+ octane being recommended. I take it that the bike will run fine with 87 octane, but will likely perform better with 91/+ octane. I can't see BRP allowing a fuel that would cause harm to your motor...

Type Premium unleaded gasoline
87 Pump Posted AKI (RON+MON)/2 Minimum octane
92 RON
91 Pump Posted AKI (RON+MON)/2
Fuel - Refer to
FUEL REQUIREMENTS
Recommended octane
95 RON
Fuel tank capacity 27 L (7.1 U.S. gal.)

'Premium' gasoline is a relative term and just another way to describe the octane recommended. I've seen octanes between 91 and 93 being called 'Premium' depending on the market and brand. They are recommending whatever is designated 'Premium' in your area or for the brand fuel you are using. Then they give a minimum octane recommending that you not drop below 87. Obviously, you can fudge this a bit at high altitude where many times, 86 octane is the best you're going to get.

 

[put1in]

The 1330 owners manual says (US) 91 octane.
Is there a reason so many don't use what the manual says? Not trying to store the pot just asking the question.
Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

The 1330 owners manual says (US) 91 octane.
Is there a reason so many don't use what the manual says? Not trying to store the pot just asking the question.
Maybe I'm missing something.

Save money and no negative experience doing so.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I was guided to this awhile back (from the manual). Kinda misleading, as where can you find premium unleaded at 87 octane? Bottom line is minimum octane rating of 87, with 91/+ octane being recommended. I take it that the bike will run fine with 87 octane, but will likely perform better with 91/+ octane. I can't see BRP allowing a fuel that would cause harm to your motor...

Type Premium unleaded gasoline
87 Pump Posted AKI (RON+MON)/2 Minimum octane
92 RON
91 Pump Posted AKI (RON+MON)/2
Fuel - Refer to
FUEL REQUIREMENTS
Recommended octane
95 RON
Fuel tank capacity 27 L (7.1 U.S. gal.)

From all that I have read on this Forum ….. I would say probably ….. But imho it isn't going to be enough to notice the difference - it's gonna be that small ….. Mike hyea:

 

[troop]

From all that I have read on this Forum ….. I would say probably ….. But imho it isn't going to be enough to notice the difference - it's gonna be that small ….. Mike hyea:

I just ordered a DJ PV3, so 91/above octane gonna be the norm for me. I'll carry it with me on trips in case I want the stock map for gas $$

 

[Highwayman2013]

Both our 2016 F3L and 2019 Ryker Rally are 87 minimum, 91 recommended. I'm using 91 in both.

 

[BajaRon]

I can't delete it, so I just apologized

Replied to wrong post.

Sorry. I can't delete it, or I would.

It did, however, increase my post count! So, have that going for me! :yes:

Yes, I know I could have just deleted everything, Copy/Pasted the correct post here, and been fine. Didn't think of that until after I posted again.

Long Week End!

 

[BajaRon]

From all that I have read on this Forum ….. I would say probably ….. But imho it isn't going to be enough to notice the difference - it's gonna be that small ….. Mike hyea:

It would be great to get a scientific, definitive answer to this question, though I'm not sure any data set would ever put this debate to rest. There are just too many variable. One of which is ambient air temperature, in my opinion.

I know that when I did my 5,5000 mile, East Tennessee to California round trip. I consistently got about 3 mpg better fuel mileage with 91+ than I did with either regular or premium fuel. That's about a 10% improvement. I would have loved to put some miles on non-ethanol fuel. But it wasn't practical on that trip. It was summer and ran between 80 to over 100 degrees most of the trip. My feeling is that in cooler temps, lower octane fuels might come closer to to the performance of lesser octane alternatives. Also, I was on an RS with the 998 V-Twin. Not a universal test. But still, I think representative.

 

[Beno]

Good question and as you can see from all the different answers. Here is the truth about octane ratings. Octane is fuels resistance to pre-detonation. Nothing more nothing less. It has nothing to do with performance other than the higher the level the less chance you fuel will ignite before the spark plug tells it to. Pre-detonation is bad!! When you hear your engine pinging that tells you that your fuel is igniting early. That can be caused for a number of reasons, high compression, carbon buildup, timing etc. Now I agree with everyone else I run nothing but premium, because like i said pre-detonation is bad and can be harmful to your engine. I tend to run wide open or stopped and don't want to take any chances. But if your worried about the price run regular and listen to your engine do some hard accelerations at different speeds, if you never hear any kind of pinging regular will be fine. It really depends on what mods you have made, where you are, and how you tend to drive your machine. Do a you-tube search on Octane you will find some very informative information.