Front Spring Spacers

[mark4Jesus]

I was looking at the front suspension and I noticed a difference between the rubber spacers on the left and right springs. Here are some pics.

Left side:


Right side:


You can see how the rubber is different between them. Which one is correct, or does it matter?

Not sure what the deal is below with it showing thumbnails of the same pic.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Mark, Those 'spacers' are someone's cheap after-market addition to the springs put on in an attempt to increase the static pre-load on the coils by stopping some of the coils compressing... & they are virtually impossible to make match each other side to side; & even if the length does exactly match, their location is almost impossible to get exactly the same as well!! And that means your front springs WILL be set-up to respond somewhat differently from side to side, which may very well introduce dangerous handling or suspension response characteristics into your ride & steering!!

I would strongly recommend that you immediately remove ALL of those 'spacers' & look at replacing them with something more readily matched &/or adjusted equally from side to side. BajaRon does some pretty good coil adjusters, even the small eccentric bolt type adjusters from Doc (? that's right, isn't it?) are much better & quite readily matched by putting them in the same place on each coil. If those rubber 'spacers' were EXACTLY the same length & size/consistency AND positioned in EXACTLY the same place on each coil, they would be less likely to be dangerously miss-matched; but as they are now, they are effectively an accident looking for somewhere to happen!! :shocked:

A 'cheap fix' in something that is as extremely critical to your ryding safety as the front steering/suspension is usually not a great idea, at least not unless the fix has been carefully thought out & executed properly in a manner that is readily able to be reproduced identically (or very close to that) on each side!!

 

[spacetiger]

Mark,

Those rubber items are used to prevent spring coils from compressing. Based on your pics, it looks like the length was cut to isolate 1 coil winding. The top pic has it installed incorrectly so it is going to affect more than the lower pic.

By isolating a coil winding (spring will not compress where the rubber is), it effectively stiffens the spring. This devise does not change the preload, only the effective rate of the spring.

The RT springs are a bit weak. If you are a heavy rider and/or ride 2 up a lot, then you might try keeping them in but I would suggest you you change the one in the upper pic to be like the one in the lower pic. They will be very hard to get out and put back in. You might consider a little dish soap to help get them in after you get it out.

Jerry

edit:

Formula to estimate col spring stiffness:

You can see in the denominator, the term for number of active coils in the spring. If you isolate a coil, the denominator gets smaller = stiffer spring.

 

[mark4Jesus]

Peter, makes sense! Looking at them, I saw where these caused uneven spacing between the coils. I thought that seemed strange. These would also keep the springs from compressing evenly.

 

[mark4Jesus]

Mark,

Those rubber items are used to prevent spring coils from compressing. Based on your pics, it looks like the length was cut to isolate 1 coil winding. The top pic has it installed incorrectly so it is going to affect more than the lower pic.

By isolating a coil winding (spring will not compress where the rubber is), it effectively stiffens the spring. This devise does not change the preload, only the effective rate of the spring.

The RT springs are a bit weak. If you are a heavy rider and/or ride 2 up a lot, then you might try keeping them in but I would suggest you you change the one in the upper pic to be like the one in the lower pic. They will be very hard to get out and put back in. You might consider a little dish soap to help get them in after you get it out.

Jerry

Seems like it would be better to buy the adjustable springs instead. I am 225, not sure if that would be heavier rider, probably!

 

[Chupaca]

Agree....

:agree: your better off without those. If you do go with the ones Peter mentions above you will see the difference. Doc's are fast and easy to install and are effective but to adjust them they need to be moved added or taken out. BajaRon's are harder to install but the adjustment is with a tool provided (I think) But whatever you do do it the same for both sides...like the air in the tires...:thumbup:

 

[Roadster Renovations]

https://www.roadsterrenovations.info/

under suspension in products

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

THOSE SPRING THINGS

Mark, Those 'spacers' are someone's cheap after-market addition to the springs put on in an attempt to increase the static pre-load on the coils by stopping some of the coils compressing... & they are virtually impossible to make match each other side to side; & even if the length does exactly match, their location is almost impossible to get exactly the same as well!! And that means your front springs WILL be set-up to respond somewhat differently from side to side, which may very well introduce dangerous handling or suspension response characteristics into your ride & steering!!

I would strongly recommend that you immediately remove ALL of those 'spacers' & look at replacing them with something more readily matched &/or adjusted equally from side to side. BajaRon does some pretty good coil adjusters, even the small eccentric bolt type adjusters from Doc (? that's right, isn't it?) are much better & quite readily matched by putting them in the same place on each coil. If those rubber 'spacers' were EXACTLY the same length & size/consistency AND positioned in EXACTLY the same place on each coil, they would be less likely to be dangerously miss-matched; but as they are now, they are effectively an accident looking for somewhere to happen!! :shocked:

A 'cheap fix' in something that is as extremely critical to your ryding safety as the front steering/suspension is usually not a great idea, at least not unless the fix has been carefully thought out & executed properly in a manner that is readily able to be reproduced identically (or very close to that) on each side!!

:agree: & :agree: .......... What hasn't been mentioned is the BAD thing that happens when you reduce the Spring Length by COMPRESSING it .... You will have a Harsher ride :yikes: .... Less spring = harsher ride ...there is no getting around this fact ........ BRP had pre-load COLLARS for springs for years and after receiving many complaints about how hard the ride became after Compressing the spring ....they did away with it ...Years ago Lenny aka Pitbull made a Part that would change the Angle of the front shocks ....but kept the spring Full Length and kept the nice ride UNTILL you rode it in a very BRISK manner .... then the shocks would get " FIRMER " but not HARSHER .....this explanation has been reduced to an understandable version .... The Physics version would give most people a headache .... If you change the angle of the shock it changes the way it reacts in a good way ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[mark4Jesus]

:agree: your better off without those. If you do go with the ones Peter mentions above you will see the difference. Doc's are fast and easy to install and are effective but to adjust them they need to be moved added or taken out. BajaRon's are harder to install but the adjustment is with a tool provided (I think) But whatever you do do it the same for both sides...like the air in the tires...:thumbup:

I looked at Doc's. Where do I find BajaRon's to compare? I looked on Lamonster's site but did not see them.

 

[mark4Jesus]

https://www.roadsterrenovations.info/

under suspension in products

I noticed that some have one per shock, some two per shock. What determines how many?

 

[Roadster Renovations]

I noticed that some have one per shock, some two per shock. What determines how many?

Based upon ryder's weight and how aggressive your style of ryding. Some only need one per side and most will use two. Never had anyone complain about the the ryde being harsher. In fact, the OEM shocks are so soft, adding these makes it more stable.

 

[mark4Jesus]

Based upon ryder's weight and how aggressive your style of ryding. Some only need one per side and most will use two. Never had anyone complain about the the ryde being harsher. In fact, the OEM shocks are so soft, adding these makes it more stable.

I don't ride very aggressive. What weight is the step up to two per side?

 

[Roadster Renovations]

I don't ride very aggressive. What weight is the step up to two per side?

If you ryde mostly two up, you would do best with two. They were created because the wife did not like feeling like she was coming off of the seat in the curves. This helps to stop the yaw when you corner. We had tried the Ron bar and it helped some, just not enough. She also didn't like the buffeting we got when passing or getting passed by a big rig on the interstate. This also really helped that. We also noticed that we didn't bottom out near as bad,which was a bonus.

We have a try before you buy at any rally we are at or you can schedule to come by the shop here in Indiana. We plan on doing about 6 rallies next year. btw: Out of all the other manufacturers, to my knowledge we are the only one that offers a lifetime warranty. Each one is built by hand by me and are pretty much bulletproof. Easy to install and remove also.
Scroll down to the install video if you haven't already seen it:

https://www.roadsterrenovations.info/how-to-videos

 

[mark4Jesus]

Based on unanimous comments, I am going to remove the rubber stiffeners. I am going to order Doc's right now and install them. Now I need to do some searching and find the best way to jack the front up to remove the rubber. I have a motorcycle jack, and I have read posts on placing it, I will go back and find those.

Question though, do I need to raise it to get the rubber stiffeners out?

Thanks for the help!

 

[trikermutha]

Why not wait until you get your Docs stiffeners in. You will change how the ride feels once you remove the rubber. JMO.

Its not hurting anything right now..:thumbup:

I am sure I will get corrected based on my comments :roflblack:

 

[BajaRon]

You can always find what I sell specifically for the Spyder with the link below. There is also a clickable banner ad on the Home Page here on Spyderlovers. I sell other items like helmets, jackets, pants, rain gear, heated clothing, etc. which are not listed here.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?23928-New-sponsor-here-for-Filters-amp-Helmets

 

[spacetiger]

Based on unanimous comments, I am going to remove the rubber stiffeners. I am going to order Doc's right now and install them. Now I need to do some searching and find the best way to jack the front up to remove the rubber. I have a motorcycle jack, and I have read posts on placing it, I will go back and find those.

Question though, do I need to raise it to get the rubber stiffeners out?

Thanks for the help!

Mark,

I don't want to take a sale away from anyone, but you should consider all your options before putting the cash out. There are so many options out there and confusion about the different "solutions".

- Some riders like devises that increase the preload on the oem spring. If you are slightly heavier than the oem springs can handle, then preload spacers might work for you.

- Some riders like the devise you currently have on your bike. These coil isolaters also use the oem spring but by isolating 1 or 2 coils, you can stiffen up your oem spring. This option can increase your total capacity (shock bottoming) more than a preload spacer. The only downside with isolating more than 1 coil is it forces the remaining coils to handle the greater load. The spring will wear out at some point losing some of its stiffness.




- Then there is the option to buy expensive shocks with the potential for stiffer springs on the aftermarket shocks. This is the most expensive option to stiffen up the suspension.



- And then there is my favorite option... just change the springs. They cost about $85 a spring, so about $170 to swap out the springs. Here are 2 pics of the springs I put on the oem fox shocks; before and after. In the after, you can see the difference between the fox and oem ST shock. Let me know if you need help going this route.

 

[mark4Jesus]

Mark,

I don't want to take a sale away from anyone, but you should consider all your options before putting the cash out. There are so many options out there and confusion about the different "solutions".

- Some riders like devises that increase the preload on the oem spring. If you are slightly heavier than the oem springs can handle, then preload spacers might work for you.

- Some riders like the devise you currently have on your bike. These coil isolaters also use the oem spring but by isolating 1 or 2 coils, you can stiffen up your oem spring. This option can increase your total capacity (shock bottoming) more than a preload spacer. The only downside with isolating more than 1 coil is it forces the remaining coils to handle the greater load. The spring will wear out at some point losing some of its stiffness.




- Then there is the option to buy expensive shocks with the potential for stiffer springs on the aftermarket shocks. This is the most expensive option to stiffen up the suspension.



- And then there is my favorite option... just change the springs. They cost about $85 a spring, so about $170 to swap out the springs. Here are 2 pics of the springs I put on the oem fox shocks; before and after. In the after, you can see the difference between the fox and oem ST shock. Let me know if you need help going this route.

Thanks, I appreciate the info. I didn't know that changing springs was a option. I did look at replacement shocks, that is a very expensive option. I have OEM shocks, are they Fox on the 2013 RT's? I supposed I could look! Where is a source for new springs?

 

[spacetiger]

Thanks, I appreciate the info. I didn't know that changing springs was a option. I did look at replacement shocks, that is a very expensive option. I have OEM shocks, are they Fox on the 2013 RT's? I supposed I could look! Where is a source for new springs?

Hypercoil (blue) or Eibach (red) springs can be found; do a google search, there are many options.

- On your current shocks, do they have any any preload adjustability?

- What is your weight?

- Do you ride 2 up?

The 2013 RT is different than the 2012 RT (I had the 2012 RT first: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?60792-2012-RT-S-SE5-Front-Suspension

I have a 2013 ST Limited. With the revised body mounting, you will not need as stiff a spring as the one I used on the 2012 RT. Once you post back the answers to the questions above, I can suggest a spring rating so you can consider your options before actually buying. I'll post more data on the 2013 spring swap on Wed evening when I get home.

Jerry

 

[2dogs]

I know I'm going to take a beating over this ..........

But here goes. Mark, spacetigher is right. Move the one spacer to match the location in the coils like the other spacer. Use a jack to raise one or both sides of the spyder to remove the spring pressure. Use a piece of plastic or small wooden tool to pry the spacer away from the spring to make the spacer easy to move. Dawn dish soap makes the job much easier. I've remove and installed mine more than once to test the ride and handling. They are not difficult to remove and replace. If you don't think the spacers help to improve handling, then remove them and see how you like the ride. I have many thousands of miles on my spyder with those spacers installed and I've never had a problem with them at all.