Front shocks/spring adjuster benefits?

[svspyder]

Noted several posts referencing mods to shocks/springs. Have found cost for those mods. Benefits for my 2015 RT not clear.
1. What conditions are improved by the use of spring adjusters and how do adjusters improve those conditions?
2. What conditions are improved by the use of shock replacements (Elka, M2, Fox, etc) and how do these more expensive replacements improve those conditions?

Seems unusual either of these mods would be required under typical driving conditions.

Thanks

 

[BajaRon]

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

All Can-Am Spyders came with adjustable spring pre-load for the first 5 years of production. Then, magically in 2013, the BRP engineers (we are told) decided that these were no longer needed. Me, I think it was the bean counters. But I digress.

What happens when you get a front end alignment, then put 2 people and a bunch of luggage in the compartments? Not to mention hitching up a trailer. You lose ground clearance. Which there is precious little of to start with. The springs on the shocks are what holds the Spyder up. When you add more weight, you need to increase the spring pre-load to compensate. Or suffer the consequences. With a weak spring pre-load, you will get front end dive when you brake going into a turn. You may bottom out easily on driveway approaches or speed bumps. And as the suspension sags, your front end alignment becomes less and less correct. This affects steering and handling.

Adding spring pre-load adjusters resolves all of this. It allows you to restore original ride height, returning your alignment to it's correct geometry. Improving steering, handling and traction. It cures the excessive lean and dive into turns. And helps stabilize the machine. Plus gives you more ground clearance, protecting the underside of your Spyder.

Going to an Elka type shock does this as well. Plus adds improved hydraulic features. The springs hold you up. The hydraulics add control to the suspension and keep your tires on the ground.

But 'Required'. Not necessarily. Nice and worthwhile. Most will tell you that they are.

 

[Rednaxs60]

Noted several posts referencing mods to shocks/springs. Have found cost for those mods. Benefits for my 2015 RT not clear.
1. What conditions are improved by the use of spring adjusters and how do adjusters improve those conditions?
2. What conditions are improved by the use of shock replacements (Elka, M2, Fox, etc) and how do these more expensive replacements improve those conditions?

Seems unusual either of these mods would be required under typical driving conditions.

Thanks

What you want to achieve is the million dollar question. Most will accept the Spyder suspension setup as it comes from the factory and adjust their riding styles and requirements to suit. Others will do the least expensive mods such as a beefier sway bar and such. Others will do this and replace the suspension shocks - front/rear.

There is a forum thread where the owner changed the rear OEM shock spring to a 600 lb/in shock spring with a preload adjuster installed. It is mentioned that this is a suitable setup and uses minimum air bag assistance. This would infer that the shock spring is sized for the riders profile and the shock spring does most of the work solo or two up. I have M2 shocks installed all round and have settled on a 660 lb/in rear shock spring and use minimal air bag assist for solo, two up riding and when towing a trailer.

Many will mention that the rear suspension is the easiest to adjust. In essence this is correct, however, like a Gold Wing it has issues. Keeping the OEM shock and shock spring, then loading the bike and compensating for this added weight with the air system, can cause the rear suspension to be very stiff, using two shocks instead of one. The solution to this is to have the rear shock spring sized correctly, and use minimal air bag assist for all riding profiles. Add to this a shock that has rebound damping and you can tailor the ride to suit.

To add to Baja Ron's post, preload adjusters set ride height and should only be used for this. When you load the front of the Spyder, ride height will be lost, and you can adjust the preload adjusters to compensate. The only issue with this is that accurately going between the two adjustments could be less than optimal.

As mentioned the shock spring supports the weight of the rider, and platform. Too light a shock spring and ride height will be difficult to maintain when Spyder is loaded whichever way. Too stiff a shock spring and ride quality can be compromised.

The shock spring along with the sway bar and tires, control the roll/lean of the Spyder when under way. Sway bars only come into play with the roll/lean aspect of the Spyder. Can improve road roll/lean characteristics, but only on the minor roll/lean aspects. When taking a sharp corner, or navigating a cloverleaf where the roll/lean characteristics are amplified, the shock springs are the determining factor assisted by the sway bar and tires. If you find yourself hanging out the side in these cases and slowing down significantly, the shock springs are probably too light.

The M2 shocks on the front of my Spyder came with 250 lb/in shock springs that I have changed out for 300 lb/in shock springs, using the factory rebound damping setting. Ride is very good and plush. Roll/lean characteristics that I have mentioned have been further reduced. I am still considering a shock spring upgrade to 350/400 lb/in shock spring. There are older forum posts regarding a front shock spring change to a 400 lb/in shock spring, how it came to be and what was accomplished with this change.

There is not a lot of information on shock spring upgrades; however, the Spyder does have similarities to the snowmobile industry that is well versed in suspension upgrades - BRP does make Skidoo.

There's a lot of opinion regarding this subject, and because a suspension shock upgrade is expensive, the less expensive mods are done and that is it. PMK has mentioned that these are not performance platforms, but it is possible to get a better ride and performance from your Spyder with a suspension upgrade. My thoughts are that the machine should do more work than you do.

As I mentioned at the start, no suspension upgrades are required, but you will tailor your riding style to suit the machine. If this does the trick, go for it and ride safe. If not it's a cost/benefit scenario. What do you want and what is your budget.

Thought I'd add some thought to your question. Good luck.

 

[PMK]

Preload adjusters, oem spring rates, aftermarket shocks, and even an after market sway bar, whether truly needed or not relies on several factors besides cost.

#1 is rider weight. The Spyder engineers designed and chose settings around a “typical” rider. If you fall outside the weight, height or have more skill at riding fast, it is possible making changes could improve the Spyder to personalize the suspension for you.

#2 is whether you ride with light payloads or loaded down with all the compartments filled.

#3 focuses on rider height. Taller riders raise the center of gravity, inducing more chassis roll or lean while cornering / maneuvering the a short rider of the same weight.

#4 being what we often read here when folks post, they self proclaim being a spirited or aggressive rider. Fair enough, however ability levels vary, and while a person may consider themselves a spirited rider, and they may be an incredible rider, possibly a more spirited rider would be held back if following them, or the opposite. In simple terms, fast riders are fast, whether on box stock equipment or highly modified setups.

When those factors are tallied up, it gives a good basis of how to proceed regarding chassis changes.
Do realize also, tire selection, whether oem, swapping to automotive touring tires or even higher performance automotive performance tires, plus the tire pressures you decide upon can play into or away from any chassis mods you install.

Ultimately, as always, suspension and handling is never perfect, but merely a best compromise of setup for that particular day.

 

[PMK]

What you want to achieve is the million dollar question. Most will accept the Spyder suspension setup as it comes from the factory and adjust their riding styles and requirements to suit. Others will do the least expensive mods such as a beefier sway bar and such. Others will do this and replace the suspension shocks - front/rear.

There is a forum thread where the owner changed the rear OEM shock spring to a 600 lb/in shock spring with a preload adjuster installed. It is mentioned that this is a suitable setup and uses minimum air bag assistance. This would infer that the shock spring is sized for the riders profile and the shock spring does most of the work solo or two up. I have M2 shocks installed all round and have settled on a 660 lb/in rear shock spring and use minimal air bag assist for solo, two up riding and when towing a trailer.

Many will mention that the rear suspension is the easiest to adjust. In essence this is correct, however, like a Gold Wing it has issues. Keeping the OEM shock and shock spring, then loading the bike and compensating for this added weight with the air system, can cause the rear suspension to be very stiff, using two shocks instead of one. The solution to this is to have the rear shock spring sized correctly, and use minimal air bag assist for all riding profiles. Add to this a shock that has rebound damping and you can tailor the ride to suit.

To add to Baja Ron's post, preload adjusters set ride height and should only be used for this. When you load the front of the Spyder, ride height will be lost, and you can adjust the preload adjusters to compensate. The only issue with this is that accurately going between the two adjustments could be less than optimal.

As mentioned the shock spring supports the weight of the rider, and platform. Too light a shock spring and ride height will be difficult to maintain when Spyder is loaded whichever way. Too stiff a shock spring and ride quality can be compromised.

The shock spring along with the sway bar and tires, control the roll/lean of the Spyder when under way. Sway bars only come into play with the roll/lean aspect of the Spyder. Can improve road roll/lean characteristics, but only on the minor roll/lean aspects. When taking a sharp corner, or navigating a cloverleaf where the roll/lean characteristics are amplified, the shock springs are the determining factor assisted by the sway bar and tires. If you find yourself hanging out the side in these cases and slowing down significantly, the shock springs are probably too light.

The M2 shocks on the front of my Spyder came with 250 lb/in shock springs that I have changed out for 300 lb/in shock springs, using the factory rebound damping setting. Ride is very good and plush. Roll/lean characteristics that I have mentioned have been further reduced. I am still considering a shock spring upgrade to 350/400 lb/in shock spring. There are older forum posts regarding a front shock spring change to a 400 lb/in shock spring, how it came to be and what was accomplished with this change.

There is not a lot of information on shock spring upgrades; however, the Spyder does have similarities to the snowmobile industry that is well versed in suspension upgrades - BRP does make Skidoo.

There's a lot of opinion regarding this subject, and because a suspension shock upgrade is expensive, the less expensive mods are done and that is it. PMK has mentioned that these are not performance platforms, but it is possible to get a better ride and performance from your Spyder with a suspension upgrade. My thoughts are that the machine should do more work than you do.

As I mentioned at the start, no suspension upgrades are required, but you will tailor your riding style to suit the machine. If this does the trick, go for it and ride safe. If not it's a cost/benefit scenario. What do you want and what is your budget.

Thought I'd add some thought to your question. Good luck.

Unfortunately, the Spyders very basic and simple suspension design, mechanically for the rear is nearly a linear rate from extension to full compression. The air ride setup, accomplishes two things. First is ride height adjustment as needed based on rider or riders weight, plus payload. The second and most important item is the air ride system helps provide a progressive actual spring rate (mechanical coil spring & air bladder) that increases spring rate as the suspension compresses. Had the Spyder been originally designed with a linkage or rising rate suspension layout, progression would mechanically be applied.
The closer a person is to the 200 pound rider weight, the better the oem suspension is. Heavier riders, as is typical can require a heavier spring, lighter riders wanting a more sporty feel may find oem spring rates adequate. Lighter less spirited riders could find the oem spring rates a bit firm and harsh.

Regardless, the air ride setup does add a progressive rear spring rate on a design that has minimal if any mechanical progression. They do this to lessen bottoming out of the rear suspension.

 

[UtahPete]

Unfortunately, the Spyders very basic and simple suspension design, mechanically for the rear is nearly a linear rate from extension to full compression. The air ride setup, accomplishes two things. First is ride height adjustment as needed based on rider or riders weight, plus payload. The second and most important item is the air ride system helps provide a progressive actual spring rate (mechanical coil spring & air bladder) that increases spring rate as the suspension compresses. Had the Spyder been originally designed with a linkage or rising rate suspension layout, progression would mechanically be applied.
The closer a person is to the 200 pound rider weight, the better the oem suspension is. Heavier riders, as is typical can require a heavier spring, lighter riders wanting a more sporty feel may find oem spring rates adequate. Lighter less spirited riders could find the oem spring rates a bit firm and harsh.

Regardless, the air ride setup does add a progressive rear spring rate on a design that has minimal if any mechanical progression. They do this to lessen bottoming out of the rear suspension.

Thank you for the clear, concise explanation of the rear suspension design.

 

[UtahPete]

Preload adjusters, oem spring rates, aftermarket shocks, and even an after market sway bar, whether truly needed or not relies on several factors besides cost.

#1 is rider weight. The Spyder engineers designed and chose settings around a “typical” rider. If you fall outside the weight, height or have more skill at riding fast, it is possible making changes could improve the Spyder to personalize the suspension for you.

#2 is whether you ride with light payloads or loaded down with all the compartments filled.

#3 focuses on rider height. Taller riders raise the center of gravity, inducing more chassis roll or lean while cornering / maneuvering the a short rider of the same weight.

#4 being what we often read here when folks post, they self proclaim being a spirited or aggressive rider. Fair enough, however ability levels vary, and while a person may consider themselves a spirited rider, and they may be an incredible rider, possibly a more spirited rider would be held back if following them, or the opposite. In simple terms, fast riders are fast, whether on box stock equipment or highly modified setups.

When those factors are tallied up, it gives a good basis of how to proceed regarding chassis changes.
Do realize also, tire selection, whether oem, swapping to automotive touring tires or even higher performance automotive performance tires, plus the tire pressures you decide upon can play into or away from any chassis mods you install.

Ultimately, as always, suspension and handling is never perfect, but merely a best compromise of setup for that particular day.

Nice summary. Thanks.

 

[svspyder]

thanks

thanks all for the informative responses!

 

[Davgill2002]

I have a 2023 S2S with the Baja Ron Ultra sway bar (2nd gen). Nonetheless, I am thinking of going to elka stage2 up front. I would like to add elka to the rear but do not want to loose my air ride leveling capability (passenger). Some of your comments implied the air bag might be retained with an after marked shock, be that Me, Elka or Ion. Is this true or not? I do not no much about M2 shocks, are the better than Elka, rebuildable, adjustable rebound & preload, last longer? Thank you.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have a 2023 S2S with the Baja Ron Ultra sway bar (2nd gen). Nonetheless, I am thinking of going to elka stage2 up front. I would like to add elka to the rear but do not want to loose my air ride leveling capability (passenger). Some of your comments implied the air bag might be retained with an after marked shock, be that Me, Elka or Ion. Is this true or not? I do not no much about M2 shocks, are the better than Elka, rebuildable, adjustable rebound & preload, last longer? Thank you.

read what " PMK " posted in #5 above .... I would keep the air bag .....Mike :thumbup:

 

[chipveres]

I have a 2023 S2S with the Baja Ron Ultra sway bar (2nd gen). Nonetheless, I am thinking of going to elka stage2 up front. I would like to add elka to the rear but do not want to loose my air ride leveling capability (passenger). Some of your comments implied the air bag might be retained with an after marked shock, be that Me, Elka or Ion. Is this true or not? I do not no much about M2 shocks, are the better than Elka, rebuildable, adjustable rebound & preload, last longer? Thank you.

We presently have an Elka Stage 2 rear shock as well as the air bag. Riding two-up with 600 pounds of driver plus passenger aboard works fine. My wife reports good results riding solo. So I guess the combination works.

 

[BoatFixx]

Excellent information, and thank you!
We just finished up our first 3000 mile trip. I bought a new '23 Sea2Sky in November and put 500 miles on it straight away.
Side note: A word on my riding background... I've been on BMW's for the last 35 years. I still own an R1150GS, and an R1150RT. Both have aftermarket Ohlins shocks installed. We have ridden two-up and loaded with gear for those 35 years. My riding style two-up or not can be considered quite spirited, but not crazy
For my riding style two-up or solo the very first thing I noticed was how terrible the Spyder is in the twisties. In fact, it is quite laborious pulling that beast around the turns, while leaning out as far as is possible.
Looking for remediation is how I found this forum's website. I read on BajaRon's product, and installed the Ultra SwayBar. That helped immensely, but did not solve all of it. Yes, I do understand that it is 3-wheels, and not all of that lean will disappear but in reading here I believe it is time for a total re-shock job.
We ride two up most all of the time. I'm 6'1", wife is 5'10" with a total body weight of 360. We pack the frunk with 15-lbs+, the side cases with about 6-lbs each, and the top box and rack on top with another 10-lbs +-. So let's call it 40 pounds of gear.
So, now I suppose I'm simply looking for opinions on either go M2 or Elka?

Addenda: Throttle response was also an issue for me. I remedied that with the PedalBox Pro. It is excellent! For this trip I had it set @ "city+3". I think I'll place it in "Sportmode-0" and see what happens.