Front Pulley Failure! Incredibly Poor Dealer Response!

[BajaRon]

I do not enjoy reporting things like this. But maybe it will help someone else. Which is my primary purpose here.

We had a customer come in yesterday with a 2017 F3. She took it to her dealer in late 2022 for the front sprocket (supposed to be permanente) recall fix. She rides a lot and though she would probably be considered an aggressive rider, she is petite and probably doesn't weight 100 lbs. Rides with little to no baggage and takes good care of her Spyder. In short, she is just a very nice lady that loves to ride!

She was on a ride yesterday (it was beautiful weather). Pulling away from a stop, 'It made a terrible noise and wouldn't move at all'. she told us over the phone. Luckily, she was not far from home and she has a friend with a trailer. We had a feeling we already knew what the problem was before she arrived and found the issue quickly (videos below)

https://youtube.com/shorts/8JPg37RDHek?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/iMmbV3cOr1w?feature=share

Yes, sadly, the front sprocket had failed. Even more sadly, when we asked her how the service was done. Essentially, how long did they keep her bike. She told us the dealer said she could wait and take it as soon as the work was done. Which is pretty much what we suspected with this failure.

It could be they did not torque the bolt correctly. But there is also a special Loctite product that is used for this repair. Loctite (and the BRP repair bulletin) states that this product must be allowed to cure, undisturbed, for 24 hours. This was not done and is, most likely, the reason for the failure.

We took both of our recall Spyders to a dealership for this same recall repair. The 1st one they told us we could take right away. We declined sighting BRP's and Loctite's 24 hour cure requirement. The 2nd one we had to redo ourselves because they put the washer/spacer on the wrong side of the pulley. Which was quite obvious because the belt was running hard against the front pulley flange and out of alignment on the rear pulley.

We recommend that owners ALWAYS check work that is done to their ride, if possible. From oil changes to whatever. We recommend this for our work as well. Anyone can make a mistake. The sooner it is discovered, the better for everyone. We've had customers come in with tie rods left loose after an alignment, (which destroyed their new front tires), rear brake pads that were not replaced during a full brake job, over and underfilled oil levels after a service and more. I know it seems ridiculous, and really, it is. The owner shouldn't have to know more about their ride than the dealership. But believe me, it doesn't hurt.

I'm an old guy and I just don't remember it being this bad in the past. Maybe it's just me. But it seems like mechanics generally took more pride in their work in days gone by. This isn't restricted to our Spyders. We have Honda, Harley, you name it customers telling us similar stories about their rides as well.

As for our customer. She called the dealership to tell them about the failure. They told her 'Sorry, you're out of warranty'. In my opinion, this kind of treatment is not warranted. Nor is it good for the dealership or the Spyder brand.

I'm NOT against dealerships! I want them to succeed! I used to promote them. But I got pushback from customers saying it was going to hurt my reputation if I persisted. When dealerships fail, the machine fails. A well managed dealership is good for everyone.

I know there are good dealerships out there. If you have one, I implore you to appreciate them. But at the same time, I suggest there is no reason they shouldn't all be excellent. They certainly charge as though they were.

 

[RayBJ]

There are good and bad mechanics that work for dealers AND private shops. IF you are lucky and find 'that' guy who you believe to be an expert on your model, tip him/her well and be sure the shop doesn't assign the work to a less-qualified grunt.

 

[2dogs]

"The owner shouldn't have to know more about their ride than the dealership." I've always felt that BRP's inept dealership service departments may become the primary demise of their spyder line of products.

 

[2dogs]

There are good and bad mechanics that work for dealers AND private shops. IF you are lucky and find 'that' guy who you believe to be an expert on your model, tip him/her well and be sure the shop doesn't assign the work to a less-qualified grunt.

Luckily in my neck of the woods, I found a BRP certified tech mechanic who left a local dealership and opened his own service shop. I always tip him with a couple of 6-packs of soft drinks or several bottles of Gatorade. I've even brought him lunch when he couldn't get away from all the work he'd lined up.

 

[Longtimer]

For the price they are charging you should be getting service from a highly qualified tech. Even if its under warranty by

 

[AstroTom]

Unfortunately, these kinds of things are not limited to BRP dealers. Along with vehicle maintenance, I've always done about 95% of my own repair work on my home. I hate having someone come in and do the work because I've had so many similar experiences where the work was so bad, I needed to do it over. The worst was having a new furnace and hot water heater installed, and coming home from work and discovering the contractor had placed the new gas hot water heater in the utility room next to where the furnace cold air return was. Not only could this pull fumes from the hot water heater and blow them throughout the house, in big red letters on the front of the hot water heater were the words: "Not Approved for Mobile Home Use." Guess what my house was? One was downright dangerous, and both were code violations. Had I not had a knowledge of these things....

In the case of the failed pully, the dealer not backing thier work is unacceptable, and to me is bad business. I've had a couple car dealer repairs where they guarantee their repair work regardless if it was warranty work or not.

I hate to say it, but I wonder if the outcome would have been different if the bike owner was a man.

 

[troop]

One would hope that BRP would cover the recall fix failure?? Might need to be a bit persistent, especially since the dealer let her operate it before the recommended curing time?

 

[hrlydrvr]

I must say I have had good luck with a dealer close to me. Not the dealer I bought my F3 from however. Now that my bike is out of warranty I plan on doing most of the service work myself. When it comes for major service I think I'll road trip to someone I truly trust.

 

[BazF]

Interesting. When my front pulley was replaced, I was told to wait and ride it away after fitting. No problems yet.

 

[msawdust]

Today I had the recall done and waited for it and drove it home. What should I be expecting and how will I know a problem is developing. Also how many people have done the same and had a problem?

 

[BajaRon]

Interesting. When my front pulley was replaced, I was told to wait and ride it away after fitting. No problems yet.

Today I had the recall done and waited for it and drove it home. What should I be expecting and how will I know a problem is developing. Also how many people have done the same and had a problem?

The real answer is there is no way to know. When you went in I assume you didn't have a problem. Not everyone ever had a problem. It's just that a lot of people did. Enough to force BRP to make this recall effort to stem the tide.

The whole idea with the recall process was to prevent any movement between the pulley splines and the output shaft splines. Any movement at all spells the eventual failure of this component. The special Loctite compound used (after testing more than one to determine which worked best) is the insurance for a less than ideal fitment. In other words, if you have ideal fitment, then you don't need the Loctite and it doesn't matter if you adhere to the products requirements. If you do need the loctite to prevent failure, then riding away in less than 24 hours is going to show up eventually just as it did with our customer.

It's as simple and as unpredictable as that. And the whole reason for adding Loctite to the equation in the first place. But you have to ask, "If you're not going to do it right, why do it at all?" I'm sure that if you asked the dealership, they would tell you they've been doing it this way with no problems. But the problem doesn't show up for quite some time, depending on how much you ride, how aggressive you are, and how heavily you are loaded.

 

[CharlieIndia]

BRP will cover 2nd failure, mine was. Mine was blamed on the bolt. A safety recall according to the NTSB web site is 15 years. Certain circumstances are allowed for parts availability but the NTSB frowns on this because it's a known failure. Also according to the NTSB web site, you must try to work with BRP first, thru your dealership. Hope this info helps.

Ps: First time, I didn't wait 24hrs. Second time they made me wait. Fingers crossed, I only have about 150 miles on the new sprocket.

 

[BajaRon]

BRP will cover 2nd failure, mine was. Mine was blamed on the bolt. A safety recall according to the NTSB web site is 15 years. Certain circumstances are allowed for parts availability but the NTSB frowns on this because it's a known failure. Also according to the NTSB web site, you must try to work with BRP first, thru your dealership. Hope this info helps.

Ps: First time, I didn't wait 24hrs. Second time they made me wait. Fingers crossed, I only have about 150 miles on the new sprocket.

I have the feeling that you're right. I don't see how the dealership can wash their hands of this. But it's the customer's call. I would go to bat for them but she is afraid to have them do any more work on her spyder. This is not the 1st failure of a component this same dealership 'Fixed' for her. But I appreciate the feedback. I'll let her know.

 

[ned64]

On both the wife and my Spyders when the final fix was done on the front pulley, I questioned the service writer when I made the appointment for the recall to be done. Are you sure I don't need to leave the Spyders overnight for the stuff used on the shaft and pulley splines to cure? No, was the definite answer. When we left the Spyders to get the job done, it was just over an hour before they told us they were ready to go... I traded my '17 RTL in on a '22 RTL so I don't know what happened, if anything, to the front sprocket. Wife still has her '19 F3L spyder. It needs a new back tire put on, so I will have them check the front pulley too. At $150 an hour, you would think they have a smart person there working and knowing what they are doing. There is at least one person there who knows his stuff on Spyders, but you have to make sure you request him to work on your Spyder when you make an appointment, or you don't know who does the work 'til after it's been done.

 

[BajaRon]

On both the wife and my Spyders when the final fix was done on the front pulley, I questioned the service writer when I made the appointment for the recall to be done. Are you sure I don't need to leave the Spyders overnight for the stuff used on the shaft and pulley splines to cure? No, was the definite answer. When we left the Spyders to get the job done, it was just over an hour before they told us they were ready to go... I traded my '17 RTL in on a '22 RTL so I don't know what happened, if anything, to the front sprocket. Wife still has her '19 F3L spyder. It needs a new back tire put on, so I will have them check the front pulley too. At $150 an hour, you would think they have a smart person there working and knowing what they are doing. There is at least one person there who knows his stuff on Spyders, but you have to make sure you request him to work on your Spyder when you make an appointment, or you don't know who does the work 'til after it's been done.

I don't think it has anything to do with 'Smartness'. Believe me, they know what the recall repair details say. It's that time is money and if they can move things along quickly, they will. It also makes the customer happy to get their ride back quickly. Since the customer doesn't know any better (most of the time as in our lady customers case) all is well.

Most of the time nothing will happen. And if it does, it will probably be several thousand miles and a year or two (or more) down the road. The odds are with the dealership.

 

[pegasus1300]

If your lady customer pursues this any further Ron, and you find out about the outcome, I hope you will let us know.

 

[BajaRon]

If your lady customer pursues this any further Ron, and you find out about the outcome, I hope you will let us know.

The plan right now is for us to do the repair at the shop. Fortunately, the output shaft LOOKS ok. But we won't know for sure until we fit the new pulley. If the output shaft is bad, then I am going to push for a BRP solution because that's a BIG job and very expensive. If it's a simple pulley refit, as we are hoping, she plans to see if BRP will pay for the repair. I don't think this approach will work and frankly, it isn't fair to BRP not to have the chance to make it right. On the other hand, I can understand that she doesn't want this dealership doing any more work on her Spyder. What with more than one very disappointing interaction with them, I don't blame her for wanting some confidence that the fix is done right. My disappointment is that all of this could probably have been avoided if they had just followed instructions on the initial recall repair.

 

[troop]

How far away are other dealers?

 

[AndysF3S]

The plan right now is for us to do the repair at the shop. Fortunately, the output shaft LOOKS ok. But we won't know for sure until we fit the new pulley. If the output shaft is bad, then I am going to push for a BRP solution because that's a BIG job and very expensive. If it's a simple pulley refit, as we are hoping, she plans to see if BRP will pay for the repair. I don't think this approach will work and frankly, it isn't fair to BRP not to have the chance to make it right. On the other hand, I can understand that she doesn't want this dealership doing any more work on her Spyder. What with more than one very disappointing interaction with them, I don't blame her for wanting some confidence that the fix is done right. My disappointment is that all of this could probably have been avoided if they had just followed instructions on the initial recall repair.

I doubt that BRP will pay for a third-party repair (IMO), but she should contact BRP Care and have them open a case file explaining what her concerns are about the quality of repair with the current dealership. Once that case file is open, they may recommend a different dealership do the repair; or have a more hands on approach for the repair to be done through the current dealership.

BRP are often blamed for the total repair process or not approving the process when the dealer is filtering the discussion both ways. Good luck with the repair. JMO

 

[BajaRon]

I doubt that BRP will pay for a third-party repair (IMO), but she should contact BRP Care and have them open a case file explaining what her concerns are about the quality of repair with the current dealership. Once that case file is open, they may recommend a different dealership do the repair; or have a more hands on approach for the repair to be done through the current dealership.

BRP are often blamed for the total repair process or not approving the process when the dealer is filtering the discussion both ways. Good luck with the repair. JMO

I agree, and have made this case to the customer. They are frustrated and maybe even angry. I only suggest, I don't normally push. But I will if the output shaft is bad. We do have other dealerships close enough to be a reasonable alternative. But they are all owned by the same company, which also factors into our customer's outlook on the situation.