Front End Side to Side Waggle

[mebgardner]

Yup, new guy question, thanks for patience.

I read the "Do's and Do Not's" page, it mentions this issue, and to not grip the bars tightly, but to relax.

I've also read a couple recent threads where bad roads make this issue more severe. Some of those writers stated the severity was bad enough to make them walk away from the machine, and go ride something else. (I'm sure it was not that one thing, but contributed to their unhappiness).

So, here I am, mullin' buying an F3, and I know this town (Tucson AZ) has pretty bad roads. The town is doing best it can, but they're bad no doubt. Lots of potholes...

So, there's that issue and that I live at the end of 1/2 mile of dirt / sand / pebble road (1 mile round trip, every time...), and then there's the problem with the belt and gravel. I know that can be solved with an aftermarket guard.

But, can this "waggle" problem be solved, or reduced, or is it just "the nature of the beast", and you live with it? How bad is it?

 

[fjray]

With two front wheels on the ground a fair amount of bump steer is to be expected. keep a loose grip and let it dance, It won't go to far. Proper alignment can help but it's not a cure all.

 

[Flamewinger]

Many of us get the bike aligned and upgrade the sway bar and heim links. (BajaRon). Check the spyderlovers home page for vendors.

 

[AsphaltEagle]

Wiggle waggle

I also live 2 miles down a dirt and limestone road. Not too concerned about the dirt and pebbles, I just go slower. It (2018 F3 Limited) does want to follow the road ruts a little but its not to bad. A light hand on bars is all thats needed. With three wheels its definitely a little more challenging trying to miss potholes and road debris. Having ridden 2 wheels for over 52 years its probably a little harder for me to get used to it then those who have never ridden, but its coming along fairly fast. Just got my spyder 2 months ago but because of crappy weather have not ridden all that much, only 1400 miles on it.
Planning a trip to Ga mountains next month and doing the Natchez Trace Parkway next year. I'm warming up to the spyder.

 

[JayBros]

I sort of agree with fjray with the addition of once you learn how to straddle rough spots between one of the front wheels and the rear wheel it makes things a bit smoother -- sometimes.

 

[always young]

Asphalt Eagle

I also live 2 miles down a dirt and limestone road. Not too concerned about the dirt and pebbles, I just go slower. It (2018 F3 Limited) does want to follow the road ruts a little but its not to bad. A light hand on bars is all thats needed. With three wheels its definitely a little more challenging trying to miss potholes and road debris. Having ridden 2 wheels for over 52 years its probably a little harder for me to get used to it then those who have never ridden, but its coming along fairly fast. Just got my spyder 2 months ago but because of crappy weather have not ridden all that much, only 1400 miles on it.
Planning a trip to Ga mountains next month and doing the Natchez Trace Parkway next year. I'm warming up to the spyder.

If you get up around Two Wheels Suches motorcycle resort on the 6th thru 9th next month, come on by and join in on our COG event. We don't care what you ride. Camping, riding and BSing around the campfire. Great bunch of people that like to ride on great roads.

 

[jcthorne]

There is no waggle problem with the Sypders.

Just spyders in need of alignment, tires, balance or all three.

 

[Easy Rider]

How bad is it?

Hard to answer because it varies as much with the rider as it does with each machine.

Some never seem to notice it at all.
Most adjust their riding techniques and it gets less irritating over time.
Some are hyper-sensitive to it and eventually give up.

There are more riding techniques involved than just keeping a "loose" grip on the bars.

 

[Easy Rider]

There is no waggle problem with the Sypders.

Your opinion.

But I think that statement is grossly misleading.......because there IS a different riding dynamic with 3 wheels......and there is nothing you can do to completely "fix" it.......short of removing one wheel.

 

[AY4B]

Your opinion.

But I think that statement is grossly misleading.......because there IS a different riding dynamic with 3 wheels......and there is nothing you can do to completely "fix" it.......short of removing one wheel.

Actually JCThorne is correct and he is a professional Tech. I have come to listen to what he says and agree 100%. When I was new on my first spyder I felt the wiggle waggle. It was just my inexperience. give it some miles and the things JC mentioned. You will feel like you are on rails.

 

[Lew L]

After a proper alignment ( thanks Squared Away!!! ) I have NO " waggle " of the bars. On a flat road I can take my hands off the bars for a few moments and there is no pull to either side. Bump steer is minimal. Spyders SHOULD come from the factory/dealer with proper front and belt alignment.

Of course the front tires do need to have equal air pressure. This may have been the cause of those who found the:spyder2: to be poor handling. Thousands of us have no problem with our Spyders.
And yes, I have up graded the suspension, but I've done that on all my motorcycles and cars.

Lew L

 

[Easy Rider]

You will feel like you are on rails.

You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

The difference is there and it is REAL.
To deny it does nobody any favors.

 

[Jeffmal]

You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

The difference is there and it is REAL.
To deny it does nobody any favors.

Easy Rider, Did you get your issues taken care of or are you still getting the "twitchy" feeling?
What have you done personally to correct the issues other than time in the saddle?

 

[wingit3611]

Need an experienced rider

If you could ride one that is set up correctly you would know how it handles correctly. Yes it's different but when you get the feeling it on rails you know it's rite. I also am new to it and found that tire inflation put mine on rails. when new for me it's improper inflation was corrected and handled badly. Up the front and it was like on rails.

 

[stmike 1800]

What makes me pissed is BRP will not help ,they leave it up to the owner to ether dump the dam thing or to fix it own your own.

 

[DGoebel]

Is this only a new problem with the '17's and '18's? My '13 has always been rock solid as far as tracking goes. Granted I bought it used so maybe the OO had it tweaked where it didn't have the issue, but from the vehemence of Easy Rider and STMike 1800 with the newer models, I'm wondering if it's model related....
I have only rode mine about 22,000 miles, over a variety of road surfaces, including about 30 miles on dirt/gravel roads in Canada and northern MN and it's never seemed to "wiggle waggle" at all.

 

[AngryBug]

Another newbie's two-cents worth

But, can this "waggle" problem be solved, or reduced, or is it just "the nature of the beast", and you live with it? How bad is it?

I've only had a motorcycle license since July 2017, so I am a newbie in more than just the Spyder world. Got my permit in April 2017 and hubby bought me a 2014 Suzuki Boulevard as a learner bike (new, with only a couple miles on the odometer). I rode it from April 2017 to June 2018 - traded it in at just a hair over 3,500 miles.

Dealer is 2+ hours from our house. I was warned about the shimmy and told to "relax your hands when you feel it". We had just rode the bikes down to pick her up, so I was hopping directly from 2+ hours on a two-wheel ride to a three-wheel ride. Several times on that trip home I had to stretch my fingers to the sky while keeping my palms on the grips. This did help immensely. Hubby (my toy budget) took her for a spin when we got home and commented he noticed the shimmy to and that it went away when he relaxed his hands. It took me probably 500-1,000 miles to break that "death grip" hold that causes the shimmy. I'm not sure I would consider it a wiggle-waggle, but you can feel it.

I have 4,500 miles on Angry Bug now, and the only time I feel that shimmy is when I get tense in rush hour traffic...it's the distracted drivers that cause the anxiety more so than the extra vehicles on the roadway.

That said, now that I am more confident in how she handles, have been pushing my boundaries more, and can actually relax enough to enjoy riding, I have noticed a slight drift to the right that I believe may be alignment related rather than road grade related. I'm planning on talking to my toy budget when he's home this weekend about a sway bar upgrade and alignment.

You didn't specify (or I didn't retain) which F3 you were considering. Angry Bug is a 2017 F3-T SE6. And yes, I have put more miles on her in 2 months than I put on the bike I owned for over a year. She's become my daily driver which says a lot about my growth as a rider and comfort level on her, because I never took the Boulevard on a solo ride. Also I'm not being mean by referring to hubby as the "toy budget" because he introduces me as his "retirement plan".

 

[stmike 1800]

I have 7,000 km on the rtl now and when on good highways ( 400 series ) i can ride up to 140 km no problem . But get on some of are northern crappy roads it is hard to go 80 km .

 

[jcthorne]

You can believe whatever you want but your single personal experience really does not PROVE anything as it relates to anybody else.

You can NOT dismiss all of the owners who come here and have problems with the feeling of "dodging and weaving" at speed, some of whom have a lot of miles and some who have tried to fix it and can't.

SOME PEOPLE ARE MORE SENSITIVE TO THE DIFFERENT GEOMETRY THAN OTHERS.

What you two are saying is insulting; it smacks of "you don't know what you are talking about."
It is all in your head and you could get over it........if you just WOULD.

The difference is there and it is REAL.
To deny it does nobody any favors.

I have had a number of customers bring me bikes saying the same thing. Every one of them have changed their tune after the bike was properly set up. There is no waggle problem, the bike goes straight down the road with little to no input. IF its working properly. MANY are not.

The real problems are the bikes leave the dealership not aligned and wearing awful tires, not balanced and improper air pressures.

 

[tehrlich]

I have had a number of customers bring me bikes saying the same thing. Every one of them have changed their tune after the bike was properly set up. There is no waggle problem, the bike goes straight down the road with little to no input. IF its working properly. MANY are not.

The real problems are the bikes leave the dealership not aligned and wearing awful tires, not balanced and improper air pressures.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

I already had the anti-sway bar upgrade and kept the Krappy Kendas at synchronized psi, but after James laser aligned, put Yokohamas on, and placed the centramatics balancers, my Spyder was smooth, smooth, smooth. It was a huge difference and I don't see how anyone could say that it is not "true" in the vernacular or the mechanical.