Front End Alignment

[tjfischer]

This past Saturday, I spent the day doing a front end alignment on my Spyder. I decided to do my own, rather than taking it to the shop. The reason being, I have paid for two front end alignments over the past nine months, and both times, the shop said; evrything it within spec. Well when I did it, it was definately not within spec.

I have been having uneven tire wear on the right front tire, and the Spyder has been pulling to the left. So, it needs a front end alignnment. I followed the service manual for this. It is time consuming, takes a lot of patience, and you do a lot of mesauring. When I got started the left tire had a toe-in of over 1". The right tire had a Toe-out of over 2". Definately not straight.

The toe is determine, by the front measurement minus rear mesurement equals toe-out/in. The measurement is taken from a center point on the frame to a paralel point, even with the disc brake rotors. Both in front of the rotors and behind the rotors.

Example:


Front: 25.75
Rear: -24.75 (Measurements are from a center point.)
Equals: 1.0 toe-out




Once I got done both tires were striaght. Then I had to take the Spyder to the shop, to have the DPS reset to Zero, along with the Steering Angle Sensor.

I am happy I did this. The Spyder handles much smoother, with a lot less effort.


I will keep you posted if this cleared up the uneven tire wear issues I was having. I sure hope so.

 

[pierrelogic]

Sweet project. But no pix? :lecturef_smilie:

Do you normally ride some rough roads or was this just normal tire movement from putting miles on the Spyder?

 

[tjfischer]

Sweet project. But no pix? :lecturef_smilie:

Do you normally ride some rough roads or was this just normal tire movement from putting miles on the Spyder?

Sorry, about the Picts. Once I got into the project, I forgot abut taking pictures.

I would say it was just normal tire movement. I have over 50,000 miles on my Spyder. I am also guesing that the dealerships either didn't do the front end alginments, I paid for, or Just didn't do them correctly.

 

[krb1945]

Many thanks for...

posting this... now I under stand the toe in/out better. Now I am going to check ours.

Is there a bolt or center mark under the front so you know where to measure from or do you just wing it? Thanks again for the information Ken krb1945

 

[fastfraser]

After you got the alignment set up was it necessary to take it to the shop to have the DPS and Angle sensor set ?:dontknow:

I go through a set of front tires every 6-7 K. The techs say that the alignment is within spec. and the ware is normal which i doubt. So i will try to do an alignment my self. Just wondering if I have to take it to the shop after ?

Also any tips !

Once I got done both tires were straight. Then I had to take the Spyder to the shop, to have the DPS reset to Zero, along with the Steering Angle Sensor.

I am happy I did this. The Spyder handles much smoother, with a lot less effort.


I will keep you posted if this cleared up the uneven tire wear issues I was having. I sure hope so.[/QUOTE]

 

[tjfischer]

posting this... now I under stand the toe in/out better. Now I am going to check ours.

krb1945

Yes ther is a center point. However, you do need a service manual. These are the tools required.

• • 1 piece of Aluminium 8 FT long 2 in wide. I used 1/8" think
  • 2 pieces of Aluminum 7 in long 1 in wide.
  • Measureing tape
  • 2 tie downs. to keep the bars and tires from moving
  • 2 C-Clamps. To hold the aluminum under the Bike.
  • 2 Vice Grips, To hold the aluminum under the Bike.
  • 1 10mm wrench, 1 18mm wrench
  • 1 Magntetic laser level
  • Lots of patience

After you got the alignment set up was it necessary to take it to the shop to have the DPS and Angle sensor set ?:dontknow:

I go through a set of front tires every 6-7 K. The techs say that the alignment is within spec. and the ware is normal which i doubt. So i will try to do an alignment my self. Just wondering if I have to take it to the shop after ?

Also any tips !

If the alignment is off, and you correct it. Then you need to reset the DPS and the SAS. Otherwise the computer will be getting false inputs from your steering, Which may not correct anything.

I have a 300 mile ride planned for this weekend. At the end of that ride I should be able to visually tell if my tire wear was caused by an alignment issue.

 

[NancysToy]

Yes ther is a center point. However, you do need a service manual. These are the tools required.

• • 1 piece of Aluminium Angle 8 FT long 2 in wide. I used 1/8" think
  • 2 pieces of Aluminum Strap 7 in long 1 in wide.
  • Measureing tape
  • 2 tie downs. to keep the bars and tires from moving
  • 2 C-Clamps. To hold the aluminum under the Bike.
  • 2 Vice Grips, To hold the aluminum under the Bike.
  • 1 10mm wrench, 1 18mm wrench
  • 1 Magntetic laser level
  • Lots of patience

Please note important additions above.

 

[j45p3r]

I've been debating whether to do this myself or to have the shop do it. Reason being exactly what you stated, will they do a good job or not. Going through the procedure in the shop manual it is pretty obvious that this is a bit involved and I'm not confident my shop will do it justice. I think, after reading this, I will definitely be doing the job myself so that I know it will be done right. My front tires are toast after 8k miles.

 

[j45p3r]

Also, did you use the plastic nuts they show under the lug nuts to hold the rotors tight while the wheel is off?

 

[tjfischer]

Also, did you use the plastic nuts they show under the lug nuts to hold the rotors tight while the wheel is off?

I didn't have t the Plastic stops. I used rubber stops instead. The Idea is to just keep the rotor from moving, so you get accruate measurements.

Also, its not in the service manual. but if you do have to do adjustments. You should take the Frunk off. It makes it easier to adjust the tie-rod.

 

[pierrelogic]

posting this... now I under stand the toe in/out better. Now I am going to check ours.

Is there a bolt or center mark under the front so you know where to measure from or do you just wing it? Thanks again for the information Ken krb1945

No question this thread had been "subscribed" to! :2thumbs:

 

[tjfischer]

Is there a bolt or center mark under the front so you know where to measure from or do you just wing it? Thanks again for the information Ken krb1945

Sorry KRB, I missed this question. On mine there is a line on the Frame 3.779 inches (I think thats right, don't remember) from the front of the frame which indicates where to mount the center point of the 8 ft piece of Aluminum. The actual measurements are taken from a mark you place on that same 8 ft piece, 12 inches in from each end.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[krb1945]

tjfischer

Thanks for the info about the center point. Ken krb1945

 

[Eddie]

As far as the toe goes. I have always had good luck setting my bars strait and measuring from center to center on the tires.Do this both front and back side.Get them at the same measurement and it drives straitdown the road. Thats only to set toe.Not camber or caster. But' if I am Right here.The spyder has no camber or Castor adjustment.

 

[tjfischer]

1600 miles later. I am happy I took the time to do this. The tire wear on the front tires is much better. I don't seem to have any uneven wear on the inside of the tires.

 

[tjfischer]

I don't see why it's toed out? Toe in and toe out only compensates for camber. Measuring the center and rear wheel positions is unnecessary and does not fit into the equation. The spyder has 1 degree positive camber so toe in should be 1/4" In not out.
Camber sets the turning center closer to the rim center and loads the inner bearing. Caster controls stability and cornering feedback, toe in compensates for camber.

I have the STealth11 and Valk3 set at 1/4" and both have 1 degree camber.

The toe out will not cause any handling problems but will cause some mild feathering and shorten the tire life a bit.

Agreed. However, the statements I made are taken from the shop manual. Also, my Spyder no longer pulls to the left. So, handling is improved. and the uneven tire wear is also gone.

 

[ghost rider]

Can a normal alignment shop do this? Or would it have to be done at a dealer?

 

[NancysToy]

Anyone can do the adjustment as it's just toe - you can check it yourself also.
Just grab a tape measure and measure the distance center of tire to tire at the rear than do the same at the front. It should be about 1/8" to 1/4" less in the front than the rear.

Easier said than done. There is no way to make a direct measurement on a stock Spyder, the bodywork and fenders are in the way. In addition, there is no spec to check against...although zero toe-in would be a good guess. The actual spec is with the suspension unloaded and is measured three feet in front and back of center...not at the tire edge.

 

[ArmyJoe]

What did you use for the 7x1 inch spacers?

I'm assuming thickness doesn't matter as long as front/rear measurements are the same when you're done. Since the frame isn't perfectly smooth, I was thinking the pre-cut craft wood at Lowe's would be best. It's in-square, uniform in thickness, small pieces shouldn't warp, and will indent to make up for the frame imperfections.

 

[Roger]

I don't think you could do this on the spyder but the way we do it on the northeast bigblock modified is we measure the rotors just say they are 9" so half of that would be 4-1/2" you make a mark on the rotors outside edge in the front and back then run the tape measure rotor to rotor front and back then adjust as needed you can not use the tire because the tire expands and contracts the rotors don't.