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F3 Vibration
- Thread starter ca8920
- Start date
Hi there I ordered one today, when you normally ship? I am hoping to have it before my trip to Maine in 10 days.
Wildrice
New member
Amazing Belt Skill movement causing the vibration
So If I'm riding 65 mph in 6th gear with a vibration, I can downshift to 5th gear rev the engine slightly higher to return to 65 mph, or even downshift to 4th gear & rev the engine to maintain 65 mph, I feel the vibration in only 6th gear. Yet somehow by magic the belt is driving the rear & front sprocket at the same 65 mph which is the identical belt revolutions in each gear at 65 mph--somehow the problem is in the belt while the only thing that has changed is the engine rpm's--yet people claim the problem is in the belt.
Now BRP has introduced a new style belt roller while at the same time advising the dealership's not to use a belt tension gauge but to use a "decibel meter" to set belt tension without any concern for #tension force on the belt. That's two (2) simultaneous BRP belt setting & neither one involved belt # tension. Hmmm...
Please explain that concept................
Darrell
So If I'm riding 65 mph in 6th gear with a vibration, I can downshift to 5th gear rev the engine slightly higher to return to 65 mph, or even downshift to 4th gear & rev the engine to maintain 65 mph, I feel the vibration in only 6th gear. Yet somehow by magic the belt is driving the rear & front sprocket at the same 65 mph which is the identical belt revolutions in each gear at 65 mph--somehow the problem is in the belt while the only thing that has changed is the engine rpm's--yet people claim the problem is in the belt.
Now BRP has introduced a new style belt roller while at the same time advising the dealership's not to use a belt tension gauge but to use a "decibel meter" to set belt tension without any concern for #tension force on the belt. That's two (2) simultaneous BRP belt setting & neither one involved belt # tension. Hmmm...
Please explain that concept................
Darrell
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I rode 3150 miles to Sturgis and back and was experiencing vibrations at all sorts of different rpm's, load, no load, different speeds, gears etc. I was so tired of it I got home and ordered the belt tensioner from Smoothspyder, and 95% of my vibration problems went away. :yes:
Wildrice, According to Gates belts own ads, "Gates Sonic Tension Meter measures belt tension by analyzing the harmonic characteristics of a vibrating belt. Strum the belt like a guitar string and the meter takes care of the rest. Belts, like strings, vibrate at a particular natural frequency based on mass and span length. Gates Sonic Tension Meter simply converts this frequency into a measurement of tension. - See more at: http://www.gates.com/products/industrial/industrial-belts/tools-and-equipment/sonic-tension-meter-and-accessories#sthash.mOG3toRe.dpuf"
It appears that ther is more than one way to measure belt tension. I am going to be taking my F3-S in for a Laser Alignment next weekend and the fellow performing the alignment uses a sonic tension meter. I plan to take my Krikit II with me to correlate the belt tension as measured on the Krikit with the sonic meter. No big deal I would think.
Wildrice
New member
Ron--what ever speed you were at when you felt the vibration in 6th gear, downshift just as you did & then return to the same speed you experienced the vibration in 6th gear but in a lower gear The output shaft/sprocket & rear sprocket & belt turn at the same revolutions in 5th gear or 4th gear at the same Spyder mph.
That being the case explain why a different engine rpm & with an identical both front & rear sprockets & belt revolutions per Spyder mph cause the vibration to disappear?? The only change is the engine rpm---so how is this vibration caused via the belt ??
Wildrice
New member
Yes--I agree--the belt tensioner does reduce the vibration, based on the same principle that if you have a home floor fan & it's making a vibrating noise--just place your hand on top fo the fan housing & the vibration becomes reduced. The roller does the same thing as your hand on top of the house floor fan housing--it gives the vibration another path thus reducing the total vibration to a lower vibration felt on the F3 floorboards, steering handles, etc.
Darrell
PS: I would also imagine multiple rollers would reduce a greater portion of the vibration. I believe that what the new BRP decibel meter belt tensioner does is to find several of the harmonic vibrations & set the belt tension at a point where one harmonic vibration is matched against another harmonic vibration thus cancelling out both of those harmonic vibrations. Those engines with minimal vibration only need one roller to disperse the entire vibration. Engines with worse vibrations need more help than one roller.
Double PS: I believe that if BRP used a higher quality anti vibration engine & trans motor mounts or relocated the motor mounts to a better location the vibration would be greatly reduced, But that would require BRP $$$ that exceeds the cost of just adding another belt roller to a new position---that new roller looks like a very sturdy bracket thus providing a better vibration conductivity.
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Wildrice
New member
The belt tensioner is a very expensive band-aid I must admit! But a welcome addition none the less.
I really enjoy reading the positive post where that band-aid worked. It's the ones where the two (2) aftermarket roller suppliers haven't been effective that bother me--I've had a roller on the bottom side of the belt & switched to a roller on the top side of the belt---both were ineffective. If it worked for all I doubt BRP would be introducing a larger band-aid available in a few months. But I'm happy for all those that have their problem solved---not so much for the remainder of us.....
I am aware that my frequent complaint posts on is vibration issue may have irritated a few people, but within your mindset, is there any chance that BRP also reads these posts & if all they saw was "yeah-yeah--the problems gone way" that they would not be introducing this larger band-aid soon to be available???????
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Bakerbuilt
New member
F3 belt stabilizer
Here at Baker Built we offer a F3 Belt Stabilizer that does not add tension to the belt but simply stabilizes it to reduce the extra flapping which causes all the vibration. Give us a call at 1-800-451-9464 if you have any other questions or would like to place an order, Thank you and have a great day.
Here at Baker Built we offer a F3 Belt Stabilizer that does not add tension to the belt but simply stabilizes it to reduce the extra flapping which causes all the vibration. Give us a call at 1-800-451-9464 if you have any other questions or would like to place an order, Thank you and have a great day.
Wildrice
New member
I have the Baker built belt roller on my F3's, I've had both revisions. They do help reduce the vibration. I guess what bothers me most is a few people believing the belt is causing the problem. I have taken the belt off of my F3's--laid it on the ground--rev's the engine into the 3K-4K RPM range & still feel the vibration. For all those who believe the belt is the problem--BRP should send you a thank you letter. I know better--the belt is transferring the engine vibration, yes the belt rollers do help. But you are letting BRP get away without fixing the true engine vibration problem,
It's like going to a loud concert & if the volume is too loud--just wear ear muffs. BRP loves the belt roller concept, it saves them from solving the real problem--aka engine vibration.
It's like going to a loud concert & if the volume is too loud--just wear ear muffs. BRP loves the belt roller concept, it saves them from solving the real problem--aka engine vibration.
Wildrice, I have not heard of anyone else conducting this test and I would be surprised if BRP and Rotax had not done extensive testing prior to using the 1330 ACE engine? I was talking with an engineer buddy of mine about the potential belt vibration and he acknowledged that from a dynamic standpoint, when the engine shaft connected to the front sprocket is pulling the belt forward under acceleration or up hills, the tension on the upper half of the belt is likely to be greater than the lower half of the belt after it leaves the front sprocket headed toward the rear sprocket. He suspected that the "slack" in the lower side of the belt may be contributing much of the vibration and that an idler pulley would simply reduce the harmonic vibrations set up by these design conditions. I know you mentioned that you have used two different strategies for idler pulleys with limited success. As is pointed out in the BRP technical service bulletin that addresses belt tension and vibration onset, BRP acknowledges and I agree that some people are more sensitive to the vibrations than others. In my own personsonal F3-S, I notice some vibration when accelerating and going up hills but do not find it objectionable or something that causes concern but that is based on my own idiosyncratic proprioceptive experiences.
A Google search came up with a company (PCB piezotronics) that makes equipment to routinely monitor vibration shaft issues addresses some of the ways that a manufacturer/plant can monitor these vibrations: http://www.pcb.com/PdMProcess/gclid/CKbC4JnWkc8CFQhkhgodGh8Oww
I can't imagine with all of BRP's resources and especially testing and building of jet aircraft that they do not have very sophisticated measurement equipment that can be or has been used to assess the concerns of vibrations in the F3?
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WackyDan
New member
BRP (Recreational Products) does not build aircraft. That is a separate company.
The PN 219800412 does exist and is on the BRP Dealers system, we ordered 2 of them and they are arriving in 2 weeks time here in NZ that was as of last Thursday.
Peteoz
Well-known member
..
...and don't forget that BRP are calling it an Idler Wheel Kit, Samson. The below is from BRP Care's original post.
an idler wheel kit (PN 219800412)
Pete
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