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f-3 brakes

I had posted this earlier under General Discussion but, I only had one person answer me. Then I thought it would have been better here, can anyone help?

The brakes on our F-3 S are squealing like mad. When I hit the brakes hard, it takes a dive to the right. I only have about 7200 miles on this this bike, do I need new brakes and a caliper? The Kenda tires don't even need replaced yet. What is going on? Where do I get the new brakes for the Spyder?

I am reverting back to this original post #1 as stated above.

the Spyder brakes pads have a LOT of dust, it seems almost ridiculous. When mine start squeaking I get out wheel cleaner, (Whenwheels are COOLED OFF) spray wheels and dis, wait about 5 minutes and rinse with a garden hose. No more squeezing for a few thousand miles.

It it is just that simple, change to other parts,ok by me, I just wash the dust off, it makes the wheels look bad anyway. :yes:

Joe
 
F-3 brakes

As my new F-3 is only 3 days old, I can't yet add any related experience about Spyders; however, I can speak from similar horrific experiences re auto brakes - specifically on a Grand Cherokee Jeep - involving rotors, pads and particularly calipers.

Some years ago, on a 1-year old and still under warranty Jeep, it was necessary to replace brake pads and rotors while still at relatively low mileage. This happened twice in quick succession, just a couple of months apart. I was experiencing abnormal wear, especially since I wasn't abusing the machine and normally drove paved highways only, except for a 4 km (2.5 mi) stretch of gravel road leading to my cottage home. During springtime it could get muddy; in summers it could be dusty.

After the first unexpected need to change pads/rotors with low mileage, I expressed my disappointment to the dealer, and I paid the bill because these were 'wear and tear' items. To then have to do so again within weeks was outrageous - same 'wear and tear' response, but the dealer was a good fellow who shared my concerns and accepted some responsibility. Then came a complete surprise!!! My girlfriend picked up the Jeep immediately following this second round of new pads/rotors, and headed home. She hadn't gone 6 miles when she was suddenly pulled over by Police who told her the front end was on fire. It was. The front disc brakes had completely seized. Flames were shooting out from red hot wheels. The blaze was extinguished by Police and the Jeep was trucked back to the garage. Luckily most of the damage was contained, but a lot of equipment at the front end was replaced - by the manufacturer and the dealer. They finally accepted responsibility and agreed that it was not my driving but rather their workmanship that had been the cause. It could hardly be otherwise since the vehicle had gone only 6 miles after leaving the service bay. And that was in the middle of Toronto, miles away from my cottage road.

The interesting answer was this: when mechanics see that it's time to replace brake pads/rotors, or grind and re-surface, most simply do that part and put pieces back together. Calipers are barely given a nod. It is simply assumed that the calipers are working - as long as there are good pads and flat, clean rotors, the brakes should work just fine. So most believe. Well, turns out in my case it was failure of those calipers that was causing excessive brake wear and eventual failure. And it was failure of mechanical check procedures - failure to fully inspect functioning of calipers - that resulted in a catastrophic event, thankfully no worse than it was.

My dealership/manufacturer made things right in the end. Everything was replaced under warranty. And garage policy was immediately changed. Instructions went out to all mechanic staff that henceforth on EVERY brake pad/rotor job, CALIPERS were to be fully inspected as well - just part of a thorough review. It was agreed that my calipers had become stuck and likely failed to function properly because of possible mud and dust build-up from the gravel cottage road. I had never been 'off-road', and normally washed my vehicle every few weeks, including spray cleaning wheels, discs, etc., as best I could. Still the calipers were sticking, and several mechanics had failed to take note through successive servicing of the brakes. Brake servicing policy, up to that point, simply assumed that calipers by and large would function and only pads/rotors needed much attention. Following my incident, the garage decided that it was far better policy to offer a thorough check of ALL parts of the braking system, not just pads and rotors. Probably wise from a liability standpoint too.

So, maybe worthwhile checking caliper function too.

I throw that out there for what its worth. Now I'll go back to perusing the threads on this wonderful site, trying to educate myself as to what to expect as I get to know and enjoy my new F-3 Ltd. toy.

Cheers, all.
 
10750 miles. both front discs warped and pads at 60% worn. No evidence of overheating.
I am amazed at how small and lightweight the OEM discs are. Even with normal use
I think they may not dissipate the heat adequately. All were replaced under warranty
by my excellent dealer 158 Performance as they agreed that it just should not happen
in that time scale. Also replaced this year was the power steering unit as it had failed.
 
I must correct my earlier post, you do need to remove rear wheel to replace disc. So price of £300 inc. disc is probably not that bad. I still think a competent independent bike shop could do it, espcially if you gave them a copy of the Work Shop Manual beforehand.
 
Not sure of a dealer would fit non oem or not, but you can only ask? As I presume you're now out of warranty see if you can find a local bike specialist who could change it. Mine won't go to a dealer now unless it's something I or anyone else can't fix. Most jobs like brakes etc can be done anywhere and the rear disc can be done without removing rear wheel.

Ebay.co.uk has suppliers of the EBC pads and discs:

Semi sintered Pads £27 - search for FA631V
Fully sintered £43 - search for FA631HH
Disc £95.88 - search for F3 Rear Disc EBC

All free shipping.

So you're looking at £123 for the parts and then it's just labour. So if you can find a local bike shop who will charge less than £180 to do it (can't see it being more than £100) your quids in :thumbup:

I am sure there are some dealerships that will not install EBC products. But all of the dealerships I and my customers have used did not have any problem doing the work. Surprisingly, I've even had customers say their dealership recommended using the EBC parts as they were less expensive and superior to the BRP items.
 
I will be getting the Spyder back from the dealer tomorrow. He told me that the Spyder was way out of alignment. I find that hard to believe because, I could let go of my handlebars with the cruse control set around 55, and stay straight. He also said there was nothing wrong with my brakes. He said he did hear a squeal coming from the left front. He took the brakes apart and cleaned them. He said there was a glaze on the brakes and that was why the squealed. My wife and I have talked about this and, we think it may be because the brake pedal is on that side. Maybe I lean to that side and pull the handlebars that way when I step on the brakes? It is something I will pay attention to here in the future!
 
Wheel Cleaner

Last weekend I washed my Spyder and used wheel cleaner to clean wheels and discs. Brake squealing has stopped. Job Done.:thumbup:
 
My brakes squeal, my freind's do it, one of my HD riding partner does as well.

Solutions;
1. Just spray off the wheels when they start singing at a car wash or with a pressure washer at home.
2. I buy a good chrome wheel cleaner, spray that on and let it sit for a few minutes then just hose it off.

In either case it works, the noise I see just all the brake dust, when u spray them off you will see it. If this is part of your regular cleaning, it is no problem, if not, then go ryde your dirty bike around town and squeal all you like. Hey, just kidding, but that is the disease, the symptom and the cure.

Joe
 
I got the Spyder back today. The dealer told us that it was out of alignment and the squealing that was heard was nothing more than the brakes needing cleaned. He also told us that he could not get it to pull to the right at all. We have talked about it and decided that is just something I am doing. Either way, the Spyder is running great again and we are happy people.
 
I have concerns over my brakes on my 2015 F3 with 7,000 miles on it. When jacked up they do not spin freely like my GS and RT did. They spin.. but won't keep spinning on their own. The pads have contact with the discs all the time. I know they're usually supposed to be CLOSE.. but touching all the time just seems wrong to me.

I'm starting to wonder if this is contributing to some of the vibrations I get.

The rear appears to be rubbing all the time as well, but I'd have to pull the belt off to see if it spins freely or not. My guess is that it doesn't.

Can anyone else confirm if their wheels spin freely (keep spinning after you let go) ?
 
I have concerns over my brakes on my 2015 F3 with 7,000 miles on it. When jacked up they do not spin freely like my GS and RT did. They spin.. but won't keep spinning on their own. The pads have contact with the discs all the time. I know they're usually supposed to be CLOSE.. but touching all the time just seems wrong to me.

I'm starting to wonder if this is contributing to some of the vibrations I get.

The rear appears to be rubbing all the time as well, but I'd have to pull the belt off to see if it spins freely or not. My guess is that it doesn't.

Can anyone else confirm if their wheels spin freely (keep spinning after you let go) ?

Disk brakes touch all the time. It is simply the way they are designed. The amount of friction from the seals, etc., on the piston pretty much determine how much 'Touch' the pads have with the rotor. Yet the wheel should spin pretty free as you suggest.

There is a very good way to determine if you have too much 'Touch'. If you can ride your Spyder (from a cold start) for a few miles at 45mph or better without using your brakes. Then pull over and stop (again, using your gears and no brakes). Then feel your rotors to see if they are warm (be careful as they could be very hot). Always use the the back of your hand close to the rotor for a moment or two. The back of your hand is much more sensitive to heat than your fingers or palm. This way you can determine if the rotor is cool enough to touch.

If you have done this properly, the rotor should be pretty much ambient air temperature. A bit warm is OK. But if they are much warmer than ambient air temperature or hot, then the pads are getting too much pressure/contact with the rotor.
 
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Pleased

I got the Spyder back today. The dealer told us that it was out of alignment and the squealing that was heard was nothing more than the brakes needing cleaned. He also told us that he could not get it to pull to the right at all. We have talked about it and decided that is just something I am doing. Either way, the Spyder is running great again and we are happy people.

It is always good to read happy endings.
 
Disk brakes touch all the time. It is simply the way they are designed. The amount of friction from the seals, etc., on the piston pretty much determine how much 'Touch' the pads have with the rotor. Yet the wheel should spin pretty free as you suggest.

There is a very good way to determine if you have too much 'Touch'. If you can ride your Spyder (from a cold start) for a few miles at 45mph or better without using your brakes. Then pull over and stop (again, using your gears and no brakes). Then feel your rotors to see if they are warm (be careful as they could be very hot). Always use the the back of your hand close to the rotor for a moment or two. The back of your hand is much more sensitive to heat than your fingers or palm. This way you can determine if the rotor is cool enough to touch.

If you have done this properly, the rotor should be pretty much ambient air temperature. A bit warm is OK. But if they are much warmer than ambient air temperature or hot, then the pads are getting too much pressure/contact with the rotor.

I'll give that a shot... I'm betting they'll be HOT.
 
Well... I went out and did a 'no brake' test today.

I measured the temps of the discs using a laser temp gauge.. and also felt my hand.

When I started out the fronts were 68 - 70 degrees. Rear was about the same 68.

I rode 15 miles on back roads... speeds up to 65. Never touched the brakes once. Came to a stop and check the temps.

Fronts were at 76 - 80, rear was 85.
None of them felt hot to the touch at all.

So I'm calling my brake pad 'rubbing' perfectly normal and not an issue.

Still feeling some creeking vibrations in the footpegs. Can feel it at a low speed and sometimes hear it . Considering it could be a bad rear wheel bearing. Will change that later this summer. For now I'm just going to trust that my dealer adjusted the belt correctly and keep riding.
 
While we're on the subject of brakes - has anyone tried the Vesrah fully sintered pads?

Read good things about their pads on-line and wondered if anyone had tried them on a Spyder?


Hi MBM! I had both front discs replaced under warranty. Both were warped despite the fact that neither the discs or the pads
showed signs of excessive heat. The OEM discs are, shall we say, not the best. I would shy away from using any sintered pads
with the OEM discs. Maybe when the discs need to be changed you can use EBC replacements. I know that some dealers will fit
other manufacturers parts (especially if the after-market part is superior!). 158 Performance fitted my new Shock Factory rear shock.

In a nutshell, only fit sintered pads to after-market discs.
 
Yes, I was going to suggest the IR temp gun. Pretty cheap on eBay >CLICK ME<. While I would not use one of these cheepos for critical measurements, they can tell you the difference among brake rotors. They are a bit of fun to check other things too.:D:thumbup: You can use them to measure an exhaust manifold to determine whether you have a bad plug (the bad one will be "cold").
 
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