EPA & Ethonal!

[Easy Rider]

In the spyder world because of its non e friendly fuel system gasoline is the only option.
.....according to someone this is probably BS

Yes it probably IS. And it's not funny either.

I don't have it handy to confirm this at the moment but............
I'm pretty sure that my owners manual for the new '17 RT said that E15 is OK.
Is that not true ?
If so, how LONG has that been true, as in for how many model years ??

 

[Bob Denman]

Alcohol fuel blending varies by country
and region. Your vehicle has been
designed to operate using the recommended
fuels, however, be aware of
the following:
– Use of fuel containing alcohol above
the percentage specified by government
regulations is not recommended
and can result in the following
problems in the fuel system
components:
• Starting and operating difficulties.
• Deterioration of rubber or plastic
parts.
• Corrosion of metal parts.
• Damage to internal engine parts.
– Inspect frequently for the presence
of fuel leaks or other fuel system
abnormalities if you suspect the
presence of alcohol in gasoline exceeds
the current government regulations.
– Alcohol blended fuels attract and
hold moisture which may lead to
fuel phase separation and can result
in engine performance problems or
engine damage.
Recommended Fuel
Use premium unleaded gasoline with
an AKI (RON+MON)/2 octane rating of
91, or an RON octane rating of 95.
NOTICE Never experiment with
other fuels. Engine or fuel system
damages may occur with the use of
an inadequate fuel.
NOTICE Do NOT use fuel fromfuel
pumps labeled E85.
Use of fuel labeled E15 is prohibited by
U.S. EPA Regulations.


This was taken right out of the 2017 RT's manual.
It seems that being "pretty sure"; is different from actually knowing something.


_______________

 

[Red RT-S]

Use of E-15

Yes it probably IS. And it's not funny either.

I don't have it handy to confirm this at the moment but............
I'm pretty sure that my owners manual for the new '17 RT said that E15 is OK.
Is that not true ?
If so, how LONG has that been true, as in for how many model years ??

My 2017 RT manual says the following:

"Use of fuel labeled E15 is prohibited by
U.S. EPA Regulations"

 

[Schwingel9]

Yes it probably IS. And it's not funny either.

I don't have it handy to confirm this at the moment but............
I'm pretty sure that my owners manual for the new '17 RT said that E15 is OK.
Is that not true ?
If so, how LONG has that been true, as in for how many model years ??

Its not true. It cautions against alcohol and fuel separation. Recommends premium gasoline for best performance. Yes, 2017 book.

 

[KX5062]

So much misinformation and so much not understood about ethanol by so many people. I just wish people would research it before opining about it, then promulgating that misinformation, and then voting, but I guess that includes many many different topics. :banghead:

 

[jaherbst]

How's this ..... it's a Proven fact that Ethanol does not produce the same amount of power that Non - E gas produces ........... they DON'T put that Crap in ANY car, motorcycle, truck etc that " Races ".........Why do you think that might be ? ? ...Mike :thumbup: [/QUOTE

I'm with Mike on this one. The "flash point" is half of what gas is. Try lighting pure gasoline and then alcohol. See which lights quicker and is more explosive.

Jack

 

[Schwingel9]

How's this ..... it's a Proven fact that Ethanol does not produce the same amount of power that Non - E gas produces ........... they DON'T put that Crap in ANY car, motorcycle, truck etc that " Races ".........Why do you think that might be ? ? ...Mike :thumbup: [/QUOTE

I'm with Mike on this one. The "flash point" is half of what gas is. Try lighting pure gasoline and then alcohol. See which lights quicker and is more explosive.

Jack

Its used in this race car and many many others.

https://youtu.be/K9LzUzQ6EwY

https://youtu.be/XNMJruZJJKg

 

[WackyDan]

How's this ..... it's a Proven fact that Ethanol does not produce the same amount of power that Non - E gas produces ........... they DON'T put that Crap in ANY car, motorcycle, truck etc that " Races ".........Why do you think that might be ? ? ...Mike :thumbup:

1. All the Ethanol hate is for small engines. That today means lawn mower engines where the manufacturer hasn't upgraded materials like the fuel pump diaphragm. It might also apply to some very old vehicles made like 20 years + ago.

2. Your computer on the bike adjusts for whether you are running pure gas or ethanol blended. You will get the same acceleration out of them.

3. You only need to take extra care if you are letting your bike sit for long periods of time... Like say... Months.

4. Race engines require higher octane to begin with... Also some race engines run Alcohol injection or pure alcohol - Go figure. Our Spyder engines are not race engines and are designed for use with ethanol blends. The only thing that might be debatable there is what blends the 1330 or 999 was designed for.

Many miles on my spyders.... the vast majority with ethanol blends.

 

[WackyDan]

Ethanol production removes ONLY the sugar content from corn.
One of the other currently fashionable knee-jerk "campaigns" is against high fructose corn syrup.
Y'all should be GLAD that the sugar is removed when the protein and fiber part of the corn moves on to become livestock feed and food products.

Your "friends" in foreign lands......and some right here too......just don't understand, a LOT of things probably.

Add to that that the corn grown for Ethanol production is not the type of corn that is grown for human consumption.

 

[Warlock]

Ethanol production removes ONLY the sugar content from corn.
One of the other currently fashionable knee-jerk "campaigns" is against high fructose corn syrup.
Y'all should be GLAD that the sugar is removed when the protein and fiber part of the corn moves on to become livestock feed and food products.

Your "friends" in foreign lands......and some right here too......just don't understand, a LOT of things probably.

Thank goodness they remove the sugar. I'm a diabetic and I don't need my autos needing insulinhyea:
David

 

[Bob Denman]

Add to that that the corn grown for Ethanol production is not the type of corn that is grown for human consumption.

:shocked: But it is used for feeding livestock...

 

[WackyDan]

:shocked: But it is used for feeding livestock...

And the by-product still is.

We over produce what we need today. The U.S. Gov't actually pays farms to not plant crops in order to artificially keep commodity prices on crops like corn higher. When the bump in ethanol production happened several years ago, they weren't tuned for that and we saw corn futures soar.

 

[r1100rider]

Total BS Mike.

The people in South America aren't rich and they run their cars on a high percentage of ethanol all the time.

And a LOT of them are slightly modified old American cars that you seem so sure will explode or worse if alcohol ever touches them.

GM has been building "flex fuel" cars and trucks for about 10 years now that run on E85 and the cost difference is not large.

You are allowed to have any OPINION that you want.......but you are not allowed to make up your own facts.

So just how does it work out that it takes over a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol that reduces the mileage the car gets and how many acres per gallon are we talking about

 

[WackyDan]

So just how does it work out that it takes over a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of ethanol that reduces the mileage the car gets and how many acres per gallon are we talking about

That is the political aspect of it and not the Spyder one.

 

[Easy Rider]

Use of fuel labeled E15 is prohibited by
U.S. EPA Regulations.


This was taken right out of the 2017 RT's manual.
It seems that being "pretty sure"; is different from actually knowing something.

OK you got me there.

But the wording of that paragraph makes no sense.
What if tomorrow the EPA suddenly decided that E15 would NOT be prohibited anymore ??
Does that mean that BRP then is saying that it would be perfectly OK to use ??

And what if I import one to Argentina, for example, where higher concentrations are not only "approved" but very common.
Would it then be OK to use the local "gas" there ??

And I think the wording of the red bolded statement is not necessarily correct either.
Being prohibited is different than not being approved.

 

[wmh9680]

http://www.firehouse.com/article/10501825/ethanol-its-not-what-you-think-it-is-or-is-it-part-2 [FONT=&quot]
E85 Versus Gasoline[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Properties[/FONT][FONT=&quot]................[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Ethyl Alcohol[/FONT][FONT=&quot].......[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Gasoline[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Boiling Point[/FONT][FONT=&quot].................173° F...............102° F [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Solubility[/FONT][FONT=&quot]......................Miscible..............Insoluble [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Flash Point[/FONT][FONT=&quot]........................55° F.........-45° F [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Upper Explosive Limit[/FONT][FONT=&quot]......19%.............7.60% [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Lower Explosive Limit[/FONT][FONT=&quot].......3.30%.........1.40% [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Visible Flame[/FONT][FONT=&quot]....................Yes...............Yes
[/FONT]

 

[Bob Denman]

OK you got me there.

But the wording of that paragraph makes no sense.
What if tomorrow the EPA suddenly decided that E15 would NOT be prohibited anymore ??
Does that mean that BRP then is saying that it would be perfectly OK to use ??

And what if I import one to Argentina, for example, where higher concentrations are not only "approved" but very common.
Would it then be OK to use the local "gas" there ??

And I think the wording of the red bolded statement is not necessarily correct either.
Being prohibited is different than not being approved.

Read what the Manual says, and :lecturef_smilie: stop playing the "What if" game with it!
It says what it says. :dontknow:

If the conditions change: so will the Manual. nojoke

 

[Easy Rider]

It says what it says. :dontknow:

Quite right.

And the manual does NOT say exactly what fuel blends are acceptable from an engineering standpoint.
It says "do not use fuel that is not government approved for use".

Those two things are VASTLY different.

One generally can trust the engineering recommendations.
One should NOT blindly put faith in Government regulations; too much "politics" involved.

Other vehicle makers state flatly: Do NOT use fuel with more than XX% ethanol because damage to engine components might occur.
Whether or not that is really true might be debatable but it is clear and concise; I don't see why BRP sees fit to beat around the bush with this confusing "government approved" monkey business.

 

[dpetrick]

Ethanol

Too bad the government does not work in such a way that they EPA and the auto and power sports reps would meet put together a timeline to implement rules and standards, such as these. Government seems to like to mandate rules and expecting companies to do what is mandated, no matter the cost.
I am in Iowa and use ethanol in my cars with no issues. But here I have the option of ethanol free fuel for my bikes and small engines.

 

[ruralgirl]

Farmland prices have also risen beyond the reach of many farmers due to wealthy investors hot to jump on the ethanol bandwagon. And while it seems "corn can be grown most anywhere", it's not as simple as one may think. We've been desiccating our aquifers for decades, so irrigating is no longer a given as many areas have enforced moratoriums on digging new wells for anything but household use. Fertilizer is extremely expensive and is tied to oil prices. Diseases and pests are a constant challenge which require vigilant, expensive, time consuming solutions. There's simply no reason that I can see to encourage the use of ethanol, which, BTW, is also corrosive to steel if the ethanol is allowed to come into contact with air, from which it readily absorbs water and then produces organic acids.