Elio financials..!!

[ARtraveler]

So if I sent $ 6800 deposit I should get the first Elio made with serial number 000,0001 this is first out 250,000 unit.:yes::yes::yes::yes: .

Way to go!!!~ Be careful though, we have an ongoing discussion about those GS premier editions, the RT premier editions etc. And yes, maybe Jay Leno has some value to his #1 Spyder. I did not find it helped me on my trade in of #474 though. :roflblack:

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Be careful about getting into a bidding war with Jay Leno... :shocked: :bowdown:

 

[Spyder Tony]

View attachment 90352
I do think that I agree with you... :thumbup:

Looks like you might get your chance to see the Aptera on the street afterall...maybe.

New company set to resurrect the Aptera automobile:
[h=1]http://www.gizmag.com/aptera-independent-production-us/27868/[/h]

 

[Bob Denman]

THAT would be outstanding! :2thumbs:
Let's hope that they BOTH make it to the market! :thumbup:

 

[Dan_Ashley]

Looks like you might get your chance to see the Aptera on the street afterall...maybe.

New company set to resurrect the Aptera automobile:
http://www.gizmag.com/aptera-independent-production-us/27868/

The end of the article says this: "The 2g could end up in the US$50,000 to $55,000 price range. According to Deringer, that would put it at about $15,000 to $20,000 more than the Chinese Aptera, but in his words, “it would be a better car.”
that makes the Chineese Aptera about $30,000 or so.

 

[Bob Denman]

So it'll be in the T-Rex pricing neighborhood... :shocked:
It's STILL pretty dang cool! :2thumbs:

 

[Dan_Ashley]

So it'll be in the T-Rex pricing neighborhood... :shocked:
It's STILL pretty dang cool! :2thumbs:

"You could buy a car for that much money."

No. Wait. That was the guy at the gas station talking about my Spyder.

 

[Bob Denman]

Yeah; you sure could! :shocked:
But it'd only be a CAR!

 

[Rando]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorz...e-wheel-car-that-could-be-the-next-big-thing/

 

[Bob Denman]

Thanks! :thumbup:

 

[Dan_Ashley]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorz...e-wheel-car-that-could-be-the-next-big-thing/

Here is a quote from the article: "... the 55 horses with which it will roll off the assembly line should suffice, albeit barely... the car’s brakes, which faded faster than a black shirt in a bucket of bleach when asked to bring the car to halt...Ride quality seemed adequate, at least over the well-paved roads to which we had access. While the Elio felt stable at higher speeds, low-speed handling was unpleasantly heavy, given the car’s unfortunate lack of power steering. This would definitely not be our choice for careening around twisty roads, though our biceps could probably stand the workout they’d get..." It also says that the prototype is powered by an old GEO motor, not by the one planned for the production version. The article does not say why that is.

But in all honesty, it is a fairly positively worded article. It does say that Elio Motors was started in 2009. That makes the company 5 years old. It also said the company plans to hire 1,500 workers starting in March, 2015. Or, at least, that is what I understood it to say. I checked the company's web site today. There are no "career opportunities" and no way of submitting resumes on the web site. site.

At a corporate age of five years, it seems odd to me that a company does not have a product, does not have a near-final prototype, does not have any mechanism to attract new human talent, and is still pursuing start-up funding.

Does anyone have any way of knowing how many employees the company has right now?

 

[ARtraveler]

Here is a quote from the article: "... the 55 horses with which it will roll off the assembly line should suffice, albeit barely... the car’s brakes, which faded faster than a black shirt in a bucket of bleach when asked to bring the car to halt...Ride quality seemed adequate, at least over the well-paved roads to which we had access. While the Elio felt stable at higher speeds, low-speed handling was unpleasantly heavy, given the car’s unfortunate lack of power steering. This would definitely not be our choice for careening around twisty roads, though our biceps could probably stand the workout they’d get..." It also says that the prototype is powered by an old GEO motor, not by the one planned for the production version. The article does not say why that is.

But in all honesty, it is a fairly positively worded article. It does say that Elio Motors was started in 2009. That makes the company 5 years old. It also said the company plans to hire 1,500 workers starting in March, 2015. Or, at least, that is what I understood it to say. I checked the company's web site today. There are no "career opportunities" and no way of submitting resumes on the web site. site.

At a corporate age of five years, it seems odd to me that a company does not have a product, does not have a near-final prototype, does not have any mechanism to attract new human talent, and is still pursuing start-up funding.

Does anyone have any way of knowing how many employees the company has right now?

Also, do the math on just 1500 workers. Figure 30K per year, employer taxes (7.5%), Insurance at $1000 per month or so.

1500 workers at $30,000 = $45,000,000
7.5% employer payroll tax $ 3,375,000
1500 X $12,000 year/health $18,000,000

Minimum Employee Cost $66,375,000

That's a lot of $100 deposits :yikes::yikes:

 

[Dan_Ashley]

Also, do the math on just 1500 workers. Figure 30K per year, employer taxes (7.5%), Insurance at $1000 per month or so.

1500 workers at $30,000 = $45,000,000
7.5% employer payroll tax $ 3,375,000
1500 X $12,000 year/health $18,000,000

Minimum Employee Cost $66,375,000

That's a lot of $100 deposits :yikes::yikes:

The pro-forma I posted a link to in post #19 has a total head count of 400 at full production. Forbes is quoting 1,500.

There must be a reason for this 275% increase in the number of employees being planned. That is a very large increase for a company that has not yet started production.

I wonder what other cost drivers in that pro-forma are no longer current...

 

[spydaman60]

Also, do the math on just 1500 workers. Figure 30K per year, employer taxes (7.5%), Insurance at $1000 per month or so.

1500 workers at $30,000 = $45,000,000
7.5% employer payroll tax $ 3,375,000
1500 X $12,000 year/health $18,000,000

Minimum Employee Cost $66,375,000

That's a lot of $100 deposits :yikes::yikes:

that means about 15,000 or more units have to move off the line before they start making money!:yikes:

 

[Dan_Ashley]

that means about 15,000 or more units have to move off the line before they start making money!:yikes:

This does not include fixed costs, costs of sales, and so forth.

According to the pro-forma in post 19, they don't go positive until they sell about 9,273 units per month. This represents about 111,276 units per year. Note that in 2012, Porsche sold about 120,000 units world wide. Of course there is no comparison between a Porsche and an Elio. It is a lot of cars though. In 2012 VW sold 117,000 Jettas.

 

[ARtraveler]

This does not include fixed costs, costs of sales, and so forth.

According to the pro-forma in post 19, they don't go positive until they sell about 9,273 units per month. This represents about 111,276 units per year. Note that in 2012, Porsche sold about 120,000 units world wide. Of course there is no comparison between a Porsche and an Elio. It is a lot of cars though. In 2012 VW sold 117,000 Jettas.

Under scrutiny, the Elio numbers just don't add up. Dan is absolutely correct above also. When the "real" costs are added in, the numbers just do not add up. There are some really big fixed costs here that make the employee cost numbers look like cheap stuff. Machinery, Raw Materials/Inventory, Overhead costs, etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on--but accounting numbers can be ad nauseum to most. But--you folks get the idea for sure.

Additional per my employee numbers. Just using Elio's statements. My numbers do not include the Administrative numbers. I bet those people are not going to work for $30K per year. Mr. Elio is not going to do all the work by himself. With 10 upper level people making only $100 K--that's another million. If those people were paid higher (and I am guessing that $100K is :cus: money to most--just do the math again.

The deeper we delve, the scarier it gets.

 

[Dan_Ashley]

I think this would have made a real good take home mid-term exam for the managerial analysis graduate (MBA) class I used to teach. It would require pulling together concepts from marketing, accounting, finance, production and operations management, and strategic planning. Probably a 10 page paper would be my expectation. Maybe I'll go teach a class as an adjunct/emeritus to see how this would work out.

 

[ARtraveler]

I think this would have made a real good take home mid-term exam for the managerial analysis graduate (MBA) class I used to teach. It would require pulling together concepts from marketing, accounting, finance, production and operations management, and strategic planning. Probably a 10 page paper would be my expectation. Maybe I'll go teach a class as an adjunct/emeritus to see how this would work out.

Now you have given me a great idea for a term paper for my Managerial Accounting class. A lot could be accomplished as per above. Thank you Dan. :yes::yes:

 

[spyryder]

I think this would have made a real good take home mid-term exam for the managerial analysis graduate (MBA) class I used to teach. It would require pulling together concepts from marketing, accounting, finance, production and operations management, and strategic planning. Probably a 10 page paper would be my expectation. Maybe I'll go teach a class as an adjunct/emeritus to see how this would work out.

Ok maybe I'm oversimplifying this and I haven't looked at the financials for Elio, but they're selling a Nissan Micra here in Canada for $9998 :yikes: http://www.nissan.ca/en Why wouldn't Elio be able to make a profit seeing as it's about half the size of the Nissan? :dontknow:

 

[ARtraveler]

Ok maybe I'm oversimplifying this and I haven't looked at the financials for Elio, but they're selling a Nissan Micra here in Canada for $9998 :yikes: http://www.nissan.ca/en Why wouldn't Elio be able to make a profit seeing as it's about half the size of the Nissan? :dontknow:

Nissan has all the manufacturing equipment, dealership network, national reputation, and employees in place. To them, its just another stock keeping unit.

Elio is start up and has nothing in place. Lots of money and other things needed to make this all work.