DPS Problems, We Can No Longer Ignore "The Elephant In The Living Room"

[FANG]

I had a DPS failure in March of this year - BRP first insisted on changing the Angle Sensor which did not cure the problem - ultimately the Command Module had to be changed out on my spyder. I did not and have not lost faith in the Spyder or BRP. The ryde is a great concept and although we are entering the 3rd year of the Spyder that is still young in comparison to many other machines on the road.

I feel that the problem with the DPS is serious but I have every confidence that BRP will come up with a solution. That is why I bought the extended warranty when I purchased my spyder. With all the electronic on this ryde I felt the $800 I spent for the extended warranty is well worth the cost.

I had to have a major electrical component changed out under the regular warranty - peace of mind is that I have over 3 1/2 yrs to fall back on if a major component fails.

I am confident that a solution will be coming. When it is our toys or vehicles we hate down time and that should be minimized by the dealers and BRP. Better parts distibution by BRP and allowing dealers a litlle more diagnostic freedom may go a long way to helpp the situations.

I want BRP to get a permanent fix for the DPS but we are dealing with electronic and components are susceptible to failure, I am sure that BRP buys these units and installs them - they are probably not producing their own.

I for one am anxiously a waiting the ultimate solution but patience may be a necessary virtue at this time.

 

[moroccomole2004]

I do not disagree that there should be some concern, but my gawd anything mechanical can have issues. There is risk in everything in life, some things pose more risk then others. I read the concerns here and can not object but at the same time I feel many are dwelling on the negatives and feeding a train of Spyder bashing. I have yet to experience any major issues which would cause me grave concern to my life. Yes I have experienced some of the technical issues, such as bad GPS, the RPM surge after DSP #1, squeaky brakes, but you know what BRP through my dealership (go FMS!) has been a class act and FIXED ALL of these issues immediately. I recently had DSP #2 and the hose fix done and I can say my Spyder is back to its origianl running condition. That said I rode today and did have some minor GPS issues, but like I said my Spyder is back to its origianl running condition :thumbup:.

I do read and appreciate all the forum participants inputs, both good and bad. But that said in reading all the recent banter of "the spyder is falling" has not convinced me to pack it up and put my slick SE5 on Ebay.

Will keep on riding. Stand with me loyal Spyder riders! hyea:

Mole

 

[j45p3r]

Could these most recent issues be caused by dealers not following the proper procedures on the DPS update?

 

[Magic Man]

Could these most recent issues be caused by dealers not following the proper procedures on the DPS update?

Good question?

Nobody seems to really know the root cause as of yet? At least if they do know nobody is saying?

MM

 

[3wheeldemon]

...However in the interest of our most maudlin of holidays. I offer the following:

Should my steering lock up.

Please put this on my tombstone.

Here Lies Sherwin
B - RIP.


:roflblack:

:roflblack: What about: Here Lies Sherwin Who Only Steered Wrong Once!


3WD

 

[tatt2r]

question

Is this happening only on the earlly spyders or has anyone had this problem with newer ones

 

[NancysToy]

Folks, this topic is getting way out of hand. I respect everyone's right to say their piece, and even complimented MagicMan for his first post and starting this thread. Some things certainly have to be said. They do not, however, have to be said over, and over, and over, and over again. We all get the drift! Let's give this thing a little time, let BRP respond to Pitmon and any others who have reported problems, as Lamont said they were doing, and then, if it needs another push, get behind and shove again. All we are realy doing by:bdh: is upsetting owners, scaring potential buyers, and unnecessarily (for now) beating up BRP. Give them a chance to respond, for heaven's sake. I know it is the "instant" age of text messaging and all that rot, but these things take time. Let's be courteous enough to allow a little. BTW, my absolutely arbitrary opinion is that there are actually several issues at large, related only by the fact that they all may affect the steering. If that is the case, this will surely take some time to sort out.

Going over all the posts over time here, and injecting a bit of my own experience, I have put together my list of possible areas of concern/causes:

1. DPS that has never worked, or has failed completely.
2. DPS fault displayed on cluster after update.
3. DPS that "steers itself", and most often seems to cause excursions to the left.
4. DPS that fails to respond immediately as rider expects, then kicks in suddenly, causing overcorrection. (This is the one the update was supposed to cure.)
5. Intermittent DPS. (Another scary one.)
6. Related sensor malfunctions or sensor(s) out of calibration.
7. Possible CANBUS noise caused by other sensors (GPS?) that affect steering.
8. Possible VCM or related sensor issues that cause VSS errors that affect steering.
9. Programming that can allow certain conditions to cause difficulty in steering Spyder, or loss of control upon failure or malfunction.

I'm sure BRP considered all of these when designing and testing the Spyder, but IMO they need a second, third, or fourth look.

 

[Way2Fast]

Just so you understand ... this was not the normal "self center" ... the steering actually "fought back". I was using a lot of pressure to maintain the turn and actually felt the machine trying to "push back" against my input! ........ It happened more than once ....!!:yikes:

Sounds similiar to when the "Bad Robot" took control of mine forcing me into the opposing traffic lane....had to fight to get it back in line.

Should I rent a trailer to haul it the 68 miles back to the clueless dealer so they can rip the panels off, piling them on the floor in some corner while my Spyder sits nude in the outdoor dirt lot waiting parts from penny pincher BRP......or just leave it in the back of my garage, covered up and cozy...and write it off as an expensive mistake ??

 

[Firefly]

From what I understand the updates or "fixes" for the steering issues were not voluntary on the part of BRP....they were a MANDATED RECALL by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration as a result of at LEAST 3 serious injuries (as of April 2009) involving the Spyder's steering. BRP doesn't volunteer to do much. Their track record and that of the parent company, Bombardier, is very poor in this regard. Unless pinned in a corner, all they ever seem to come up with are inexpensive half-ass solutions that seldom work ! Websites like seadoosucks.com sprung up over their inability to address problems with their personal watercraft in the 90's. In 2004 they introduced a super charged 4 stroke engine for their PWC. It took them almost 5 years to correct the supercharger clutch washer issue that was destructing engines. To this day they still are in denial on hull delamination problems. Granted, these issues have some danger associated with them, but nothing compared to the problems seen with the Spyder. Unless a fire is ignited under their butts they will continue to introduce new models, without correcting the carry over faults from the previous ones !! I commend Magic Man for his stance on this issue. Denial on the part of some owners and by BRP will only lead to more injuries and possibly deaths that could have been avoided.

Actually here are the facts from the NHTSA:


Reports of steering problems for 2008 Spyders: 5
Reports of injuries or crashes for 2008 Spyders : 0

Reports of steering problems for 2009 Spyders: 0
Reports of injuries or crashes for 2009 Spyders : 0


Those are the official numbers from the NHTSA as of today. I'm not sure where you're getting your 'facts' - but what you are stating about 'at LEAST 3 serious injuries' just isn't so according to the NHTSA.

I personally know of ONE injury that the rider claimed is due to DPS failure - but it's not listed on the NHTSA website.

Maybe these '3 injuries' were reported to dealers or to BRP - but the NHTSA doesn't know about them.

I got frustrated pretty early on about the steering problems and fires - not because of BRP - but because the owners of these bikes were not taking the time (10 minutes) to file a report online after they had such problems.

5 reports of steering problems was enough to get a recall - and none of those 5 had injuries listed.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem - but how does anyone expect a fix if THEY don't get involved in letting BRP know about it. As with most companies in todays lawsuit happy world - they won't take action until they are forced to. This is not unique to BRP. Ford had like 40+ Pinto deaths before they did squat.


I'm still riding as my steering was 'fixed' after they replaced the GPS unit. After the first update it seems to steer smoother and easier. Have not had the second one done.

The bike isn't meant to turn without moving it.

By all means --- be aware of potential problems - and be prepared to deal with them.

The DPS shouldn't be affecting steering at highway speeds --- it's basically shut down at 60+mph. If it's acting up at those speeds - you for sure have something wrong.

To be safe - everyone should make sure they are programmed on how to deal with such an incident. Both Scotty and I have preached the importance of ALWAYS using your KILL SWITCH to turn your bike off. The reason is that should be your first thought should you need to shut the bike down.

If you're on the highway and the steering starts to go batty on you - I would pull the clutch in and hit the kill switch. This will kill the DPS and give you control back - enough to coast to a controlled stop on the side of the road.

At slower speeds or in turns this could be much trickier to do - but still might save your keester.

If you're having problems - FILE A REPORT here:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

 

[Firefly]

I would also recommend everyone find a stretch of country road and practice hitting the kill switch and coasting to a controlled stop.

I believe this procedure is detailed in the owners guide.

 

[vt228]

As you all know I LOVE our Spyder's and I even have a new RT and trailer on order. I have been, and continue to be a loyal BRP customer and supporter. I continually showing that support not only with my words, but with my hard earned money as well.

I as well as NMN also have a vested interest in seeing the Spyder's do well and continue to grow market share.

BUT.....

I think we and BRP can no longer "ignore the elephant in the living room" when it comes to the Spyder having too many, and some "real problems" with the DPS system on this bike.

There are now just too many people we know about (and many I'm sure don't even know what a "forum" is) who have had some sort of "real issue" with the power steering on their Spyder to continue just say it is just the "luck of the draw" and failures do happen sometimes.

I myself had one of the Spyder's that was delivered to me with a totally non-functioning power steering unit, which gave me no warning codes and no "heads up" that there was something wrong until I could do my own "side by side" test with our SE5 in Sept. of last year.

It was then I saw just how bad our SM5 really was. Thankfully, it caused no operation problems with my Spyder in the 10 months prior. But, it still is not a good feeling knowing that a major system like the DPS was delivered to me by the dealer totally non-functioning! That it required me to be able to do my "own diagnosis" that there was a problem. This on a machine that is touted to have all these wonderful "self check programs" and even a "limp home" safety mode. It won't let me ride with a burned out brake light, but let me drive around for 10 months with a non-functioning DPS unit?

Again, this week there was another potential buyer posting here about how it is becoming "known" that the Spyder is having too many problems for many people to want to risk "their limited riding time" and their "hard earned money' buying one. With most of these concerns centering around the DPS, and shifting problems.

I was there this past week and saw first hand the failure Lamonster's Spyder had when his DPS died in Daytona. Although he said "it was not too bad at highway speeds" the effort it took to steer his bike when I sat on it was down right freighting!

I think now with so many people having had, and reporting problems both before and after the update, that something is just not right here. GOD FORBID that someone gets hurt on one now! Hopefully this won't happen, but if it does there are now just too many "verified cases" of steering system problems for BRP to be able to dodge a HUGE liability lawsuit. There have just been too many "verified problems" with the steering on this bike to continue to ignore that it really could be BRP's fault if someone gets hurt from this point forward.

I know as a product manufacturer, that even "rumors" regarding "safety issues" can rune a products image and salability. Unfortunately I think that is now starting to happen to the Spyder's as these 'rumors" are starting to seep into the mainstream buyers mind in the market, and we are now seeing it effect their buying decisions.

Like I said, hopefully no one will pay the ultimate price and have a failure cause them to get hurt, costing BRP many dollars with lawsuits and such. However, I think the potential loss in sales and product image could be costing BRP more than that already?

I think it is time some "real hard questions" are both asked of, and answered by BRP regarding the short comings in the DPS system on these bikes.

Thankfully, most of the failures have been more along the lines like mine was and only be owner annoyances, and not caused most people any harm. But, I think if they keep "ignoring the elephant in the living room" sooner or later it is going to cause a real problem.

My fear is that just like most things involving something as big an "elephant" when it happens, it will indeed be HUGE problem.

MM

I was in new hampsher with my cousen we where on a curvy road 45 the road went left I turned the spyder was pulling me rt hard I hit the braks and missed the trees on the side all most went over the edge .the spyder didnt want to steer right for 12 miles we went slow 25 - 30 mph trailered it home been in it sence Brp if I went over the hill we would own your company please fix it. my cousen was going to bye one know no way if they can.'t fix it bye it back 18,000 its yours or give me a RT in x change

 

[Way2Fast]

I got the info about the 3 reported injuries on the web. I found it while looking under NHTSA recalls. I should have wrote down the address because I can no longer find it. I believe it was posted by a cycle magazine. I agree that anyone who has had any questionable issue with the steering should file a report with the NHTSA. Lighting a fire under BRP's butt might be the only way they will be forced into doing something about the issue as the employees who man their phones don't appear to even know a problem exists.

 

[Firefly]

I got the info about the 3 reported injuries on the web. I found it while looking under NHTSA recalls. I should have wrote down the address because I can no longer find it. I believe it was posted by a cycle magazine. I agree that anyone who has had any questionable issue with the steering should file a report with the NHTSA. Lighting a fire under BRP's butt might be the only way they will be forced into doing something about the issue as the employees who man their phones don't appear to even know a problem exists.

Phone calls are a waste of time - not to mention they hold no legal water. The only way to get action is in writing - and filing the proper reports.

I was checking the NHTSA every few weeks back when the 1st round of steering problems happened -- and then again when the fires happened. Was really disappointed to hear about problems out here that I believe were true-- but never got reported --- even after I gave people the web address and info on how to do it.:gaah:

As far as I'm concerned --- those that fail to take action and report the problems to their dealer, BRP and the NHTSA ---- don't have much to complain about.

Based on what I'm reading out here - I hope to see a 1/2 dozen or so new filings on the NHTSA website THIS WEEK.nojoke

It takes less effort than complaining out here - and will actually make a difference.

Again-----

If you're having problems - FILE A REPORT here:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

 

[Questions]

Brp seems absent on many issues!!!

:agree:also,but sending a registered letter to BRP concerning my issues has gone unresolved,very dissapointing.

:agree: I sure would like to hear a statement from BRP on the subject. Straight forward and not all kinds of rhetoric.

 

[Smylinacha]

Based on what I'm reading out here - I hope to see a 1/2 dozen or so new filings on the NHTSA website THIS WEEK.nojoke

It takes less effort than complaining out here - and will actually make a difference.

Again-----

If you're having problems - FILE A REPORT here:

[URL="http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/"]http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/[/URL]

I told my dealer about it. The tech from Lamonster's knows and I will be filling out a report when I get home.

 

[Way2Fast]

I got the info about the 3 reported injuries on the web. I found it while looking under NHTSA recalls. I should have wrote down the address because I can no longer find it. I believe it was posted by a cycle magazine. I agree that anyone who has had any questionable issue with the steering should file a report with the NHTSA. Lighting a fire under BRP's butt might be the only way they will be forced into doing something about the issue as the employees who man their phones don't appear to even know a problem exists.

I found one of the sites that reported the injuries but it isn't the one where iI read about them before.

www.green.autoblog.com/tag/can-am+spyder/

This should take you to Autobloggreen-Reviews where you will see an artical titled "Nearly 10,000 Recalls Over Faulty Steering"

 

[Firefly]

I found one of the sites that reported the injuries but it isn't the one where iI read about them before.

www.green.autoblog.com/tag/can-am+spyder/

This should take you to Autobloggreen-Reviews where you will see an artical titled "Nearly 10,000 Recalls Over Faulty Steering"

I don't doubt that you saw an article about some injuries --- but unless it's on the NHTSA website --- it basically didn't happen-- at least not legally.

Too much mis-information on them thar internets ya know......

I recall two posted crashes on either here or the other site-- one was pretty extensive injuries (broken ribs, etc.) - the other was just a bruised wrist.

 

[Questions]

BRP WAKE UP !!!

Wow, I am sure am glad I did not extensively read the forums before buying a Spyder. I may have been scared away by all the negativity. You all are doing a great job of scaring away potential owners. My experience has been nothing but positive, and I will guarantee you there are a LOT more silent owners with positive experiences than those posting negative bits on forums. I understand the vocal minority likes to vent on problems, but I have always been perplexed by why. It does nothing but kill the resale value of the thing you currently own and so dislike.

While I respect your view ,I dont believe anyone is trying to scare away potential buyers,they are simply trying to have problems addressed and are sharing their views with others . Of course I want my resale value to be as high as possible and I love my :spyder2:BUT the support from BRP is the WORST I have come accross in all my buying experiences.They dont monitor their dealers activities and mine definitely needs a tune up .I feel you can judge a company by the way they address the problems of their customers BRP gets an F on this one .I also own a Can Am Renegade X ATV andin my opinion their dealers do not know what they are doing SO...what good is a warranty anyway.:gaah:if they dont acknowledge a problem exists?
My :spyder2:is my Daily driver (not just a collectors item)and I have been waiting for an oil leak to be fixed right from day one ,it was bought in August this year ...still no fix ... no contact from the dealer ,my calls and e-mails go ignored is this what BRP call customer service?. I have sent a registered letter to make them aware of my issues .It has been recieved with no resolution.Where is the supervision that the product is being represented in a good way ?
You say:I understand the vocal minority likes to vent on problems, but I have always been perplexed by why?

Perhaps its because they have spent a lot of their hard earned money on a Spyder , only to have issues on many fronts and are being ignored .
I truly hope you continue to have a positive experience with your :spyder2: but when this changes PLEASE please speak up publicly about it so it cannot be ignored .
Now these updates and updates to the updates which are not proven reliable or safe.What is next?
I thank Magic man for shining a bright light on this issue :2thumbs:
Just for the record love my:spyder2:hate the service or lack of.

Cheers

 

[WaltH]

Very Good Magic man. Now that the 2 yr warrenty is almost up on the first ones. And we have continuing problems is BRP going to stand behind them or are we going to have to deal with it ourselves and out of our own pockets. When the warrenty is gone???? :spyder: :dontknow:

Other manufacturers have been known to maintain silent warranties for situations like this where there is a known problem which has not been resolved. BRP could continue to warranty the DPS problems beyond the two year time frame. I would expect this to be their policy.

 

[Questions]

Lamont, I certainly hope you are right about BRP actively working the issues that have obviously spawned concern among owners and potential owners. I enjoy my Spyder and have considered selling the Wing because I like riding the Spyder much more, but I never had any concerns of being dumped with the Wing and actually never gave it a thought (may have been false security). BRP can do a lot to ease concerns by simply letting owners know they are working for us and not trying to skirt the issues. I have faith that they will do this and restore confidence in the Spyder faithful. I understand your point in running a SPYDER LOVERS forum when it seems as though all the post are SPYDER HATERS. I know there is a lot of over reaction here but there are valid issues involved and what better place to air them than on a popular forum. Things will settle and we will get back to talking about oil and octane soon enough.


Michael

I totally agree