Disappointed SE5 08

[TonyF.]

Hi to all SpyderLovers,
This is my first time to attempt a thread so a little patience is appreciated,
I, like so it seems many others have the same sort of problems with the transmission.
When I first picked up my S/B 08 SE5 I had all sorts of warnings flashing across the display, Check DPS, Temp gauge reading about 10 degrees higher, oil light flashing on most of the time, and starting an intermittent problem. When I had a look around the machine I found that none of the battery leads where tightened up. This only solved the DPS warning and made it easier to steer at lower speeds. With the transmission it wants to throw me out of the saddle sometimes when it’s changing down, and making a very harsh dry noise through all gears, also considerable vibration.
I had a test ride on the demo bike it was smooth and in changing down automatically had a little blip of power and changed smoothly, mine is like someone trying to break out with a sledge hammer. After this ride it was a must have. Not so sure Now.
With taking it back to the dealer and having it test ridden, diagnostically checked they said it was fine, with a tweak of something here and there(DUR, it’s not). But when I went to leave “in disgust” it wouldn’t start, in showing the mechanic this he decided to replace the selector switch for the transmission. I am still waiting for it to be acquired and fitted. Has anyone experienced the very disappointing start that I am having?
Ok enough belly aching for now, I love the concept of the Spyder, but I would just like a smoother ride.
SpyderLover TonyF.

 

[pphantom538]

Had similar experinces whihc stopped when the dealer did the upgrades which included the sensor.

 

[bone crusher]

I didn't put Tony up to this, honest...

I hope they get it right and you can enjoy your ride...more time on the road and less in the shop is a good thing!

 

[Firefly]

Trade her in for an SM5 - the ultimate solution in my opinion. It was predicted the SE would have shifting problems - like other BRP products that went with auto shifting.

Just not worth the trouble in my opinion. If they really wanted an automatic - BRP should have looked at what Honda has done with their 2009 DN-01


http://powersports.honda.com/street/crossover.aspx

Fully-automatic HFT transmission offers several modes. You can put it in "D" and it functions like a stepless automatic. "S" is the sport mode for more spirited riding. And "M" lets you "shift" between five preset ratios—only there's no clutch to worry about.
The HFT has to be the most user-friendly transmission ever developed. It gives you all the convenience of an automatic, yet much of the control of a manual, should you choose.


I would bet my Spyder that Honda isn't having problems with the shifting.

 

[bone crusher]

Trade her in for an SM5 - the ultimate solution in my opinion. It was predicted the SE would have shifting problems - like other BRP products that went with auto shifting.

Just not worth the trouble in my opinion. If they really wanted an automatic - BRP should have looked at what Honda has done with their 2009 DN-01


http://powersports.honda.com/street/crossover.aspx

Fully-automatic HFT transmission offers several modes. You can put it in "D" and it functions like a stepless automatic. "S" is the sport mode for more spirited riding. And "M" lets you "shift" between five preset ratios—only there's no clutch to worry about.
The HFT has to be the most user-friendly transmission ever developed. It gives you all the convenience of an automatic, yet much of the control of a manual, should you choose.


I would bet my Spyder that Honda isn't having problems with the shifting.

Firefly,

If I had suggested that, everyone here would be attacking me...that doesn't mean I don't agree with you though!

 

[BajaRon]

Sorry to hear about your problems. I had a few issues with my SM5 as well.

The Spyder is a beautiful thing when it is right. It can be frustrating to get stuff fixed sometimes, but once they finally get it right you'll be glad you were patient.

Hopfully, the dealer will get the glitches ironed out soon and you'll be a happy camper.

 

[bone crusher]

Sorry to hear about your problems. I had a few issues with my SM5 as well.

The Spyder is a beautiful thing when it is right. It can be frustrating to get stuff fixed sometimes, but once they finally get it right you'll be glad you were patient.

Hopfully, the dealer will get the glitches ironed out soon and you'll be a happy camper.

The question with some of the SE5 problems is...are they actually getting it right? So much electronics...argh!

 

[NancysToy]

The question with some of the SE5 problems is...are they actually getting it right? So much electronics...argh!

We have an SM5, and they are struggling with the same types of problems, just different symptoms. BRP had to ask me questions about it last week, after three weeks of the dealer's excellent tech, and the BRP tech support group both chasing the issues. It can become quite complicated to troubleshoot a CANBUS system. The electronics is reason #1 to purchase the extended warranty! We all knew this was both complicated and new-fangled when we got into it.
-Scotty

 

[baldev]

some of you will bring out your Glock and shoot BUT my suggestion is...


RETURN IT, DO NOT EVEN TOUCH IT AGAIN WITH A WOODEN POLE OR YOUR HANDS OF COURSE. ASK THEM TO GET YOU ANOTHER SE5 THAT DOES NOT SCREAM BROKEN FROM THE FIRST SECOND YOU GOT IT.

Ask for a total refund. Then get another SE5 that is manufactured right.

 

[bone crusher]

We have an SM5, and they are struggling with the same types of problems, just different symptoms. BRP had to ask me questions about it last week, after three weeks of the dealer's excellent tech, and the BRP tech support group both chasing the issues. It can become quite complicated to troubleshoot a CANBUS system. The electronics is reason #1 to purchase the extended warranty! We all knew this was both complicated and new-fangled when we got into it.
-Scotty

Scotty,

Yeah, I was never really worried too much about the engine...it was all the electronic gizmos that made me worry...when you open the trunk and see a USB for computer hook-up, you had better believe that you need an extended warranty! I know we can't use this board as an absolute for complaints, but I've had a few dealerships tell me that the SE5s are what is driving up the warranty prices, not the SM5s...now, this isn't to say that each type of bike doesn't have its problems, but the SE5s are having more issues that are taking a longer time to fix.

My dealer has sold more SM5s than SE5s but they've seen more of the SE5s back in the shop for problems...

The bottom line is that BRP really has to get ALL the problems fixed...they also need to do better with responding to customer issues and getting their products to market (like their new accessories) when they say they will!

 

[WATER SPYDER]

HONDA DN-01... ROCKS

Firefly,

If I had suggested that, everyone here would be attacking me...that doesn't mean I don't agree with you though!

If Honda ever brought a 3 wheeler to the market with auto shifting you know all the kinks were worked out, way before production.
That's why it was in R&D for the last 3 years.
Maybe BRP can learn alittle about auto trans.
Miso soup

 

[ataDude]

Maybe, maybe not... as the former happy owner of many different Hondas, I wouldn't brag about the broken aluminum frames on the early model GL1800s.

If Honda ever brought a 3 wheeler to the market with auto shifting you know all the kinks were worked out, way before production.
That's why it was in R&D for the last 3 years.
Maybe BRP can learn alittle about auto trans.
Miso soup

 

[NancysToy]

Maybe, maybe not... as the former happy owner of many different Hondas, I wouldn't brag about the broken aluminum frames on the early model GL1800s.

...or the bad CB350 cam chain tensioners that nearly ruined the company. No company is immune!
-Scotty

 

[Firefly]

We have an SM5, and they are struggling with the same types of problems, just different symptoms. BRP had to ask me questions about it last week, after three weeks of the dealer's excellent tech, and the BRP tech support group both chasing the issues. It can become quite complicated to troubleshoot a CANBUS system. The electronics is reason #1 to purchase the extended warranty! We all knew this was both complicated and new-fangled when we got into it.
-Scotty

Same types of problems?? Does your SM5 creep forward at stop signs? does it get stuck in a gear on the highway and basically die?

Sorry , but while there may be *some* common problems - the bulk of the SE5 problems are unique to the 'auto-shifting' part of the equation.

My dealer predicted they would have tons of problems with the SE5's - based on previous BRP auto shift problems.

 

[bone crusher]

Same types of problems?? Does your SM5 creep forward at stop signs? does it get stuck in a gear on the highway and basically die?

Sorry , but while there may be *some* common problems - the bulk of the SE5 problems are unique to the 'auto-shifting' part of the equation.

My dealer predicted they would have tons of problems with the SE5's - based on previous BRP auto shift problems.

There is no question that the autos are having more problems. The question is how quickly can BRP get things fixed so that everyone will be happy...

 

[NancysToy]

Same types of problems?? Does your SM5 creep forward at stop signs? does it get stuck in a gear on the highway and basically die?

Sorry , but while there may be *some* common problems - the bulk of the SE5 problems are unique to the 'auto-shifting' part of the equation.

My dealer predicted they would have tons of problems with the SE5's - based on previous BRP auto shift problems.

The gear sensors and other electronic bugs are are causing all kinds of problems. One of these is a variable, higher than normal idle speed. This caused fewer problems in the in the SM5, naturally, since we just hold in the clutch. On an SE5 this will make the the Spyder creep at a stop, and fail to downshift. Same problem, different symptoms. I am not downplaying your difficulties, just stating that the root problem is not limited to the SE5 model. It just shows up in a different, and more bothersome, manner.
-Scotty

 

[mjw930]

It's amazing how the Honda "Myth" of quality has permeated our society. They have done such a masterful job of marketing that people mistake that for reality.

If you pull back the covers you see that Honda, although a very good company, has roughly the same amount of warranty issues with some glaring "oops" moments like the GL1800 frames as most other major manufacturers but they tend to get out in front of the problems and extend a lot of "good will" to the dealers to make sure the public's perception is not negatively effected.

As for the SE5 issues, I saw in this post that perhaps someone had found an underlying cause why some have issues and others don't. It's promising and makes a lot of sense. Lets hope BRP lturns the tide on customer sentiment soon by getting out ahead of the issue.

BTW, I still find it amazing they don't have a US parts distribution center. I also find it interesting they blame customs for delays (though I suspect it's the dealers blaming customs and not BRP). I have shipped MC parts to and from Canada and have always had little to no issue and that's person to person. A company like BRP should be using a commercial freight forwarder that can pre-clear parts and take the customs issues completely out of the equation. I suspect blaming customs is a skapegoat for other, larger issues.

 

[mjw930]

One other point I've been thinking about but I've never seen commented on. BRP has a demo fleet with a number of SE5's that are most likely subjected to a lot more abuse than most here would put their bikes through. I would think that systemic problems with the design would have shown up there as well.

Has anyone had the opportunity to talk with the guys manning the trucks to see what kind of issues they are seeing?

 

[bjt]

It's amazing how the Honda "Myth" of quality has permeated our society. They have done such a masterful job of marketing that people mistake that for reality.

If you pull back the covers you see that Honda, although a very good company, has roughly the same amount of warranty issues with some glaring "oops" moments like the GL1800 frames as most other major manufacturers but they tend to get out in front of the problems and extend a lot of "good will" to the dealers to make sure the public's perception is not negatively effected.

As for the SE5 issues, I saw in this post that perhaps someone had found an underlying cause why some have issues and others don't. It's promising and makes a lot of sense. Lets hope BRP lturns the tide on customer sentiment soon by getting out ahead of the issue.

BTW, I still find it amazing they don't have a US parts distribution center. I also find it interesting they blame customs for delays (though I suspect it's the dealers blaming customs and not BRP). I have shipped MC parts to and from Canada and have always had little to no issue and that's person to person. A company like BRP should be using a commercial freight forwarder that can pre-clear parts and take the customs issues completely out of the equation. I suspect blaming customs is a skapegoat for other, larger issues.

I agree that the perception that asian mfrs. make higher quality products is an issue that affects a lot of North American companies now. :dontknow:

The link you referenced reminded me of something I noticed a few months back. It seems that BRP's build process is a work in progress. The factory I work at has very specific procedures as to how each person is to do their job and where and how each part is attached. Intermittent problems are exacerbated when one assembler does his job differently on every machine or two different employees do the job different. The two examples I definitely know of are those who have installed the NMN risers and reported that they had no issues with the cable lengths, others that had to cut some zip ties to get enough cable length and still others who had to re-route cable to get them to reach. Also, while installing certain NMN lights, finding that sometimes the black wire in the BRP harness is ground and sometimes its hot. On my Spyder, the left side used black as ground and on the right side, black was the hot wire. On my wife's Spyder, the same two black wires were both ground. :dontknow:

 

[Degaman]

Have patience; my early model '09 SE5 had shifting and overheating problems also. But, after replacement of the 'gear position sensor' and 'oil pressure spring', and BUDS update, everything is MUCH better.

For the last thousand miles or so, it has stuck in neutral only twice. I just make a habit of keeping it out of neutral as much as possible.