DESS Key code again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PaladinLV]

No where do I see you mention the replacement of the IGNITION SWITCH!
Like I've said dozens of times but seems no one wants to believe me, in order to assure a fix both need to be replaced.

AJ

Yesterday I was in Erie PA, 5 hours from home, finishing up my Rt 6 fall tour and my Spyder failed to start two different times...DESS ERROR, Orange Screen, Flashing Key, Code P0513...

I have the latest & Greatest module 710004916...

My vehicle keys and cell phone were in the right saddle bag...

This DESS error happened at two different locations...The first time I had to cycle the key 3 times to get it to clear...The second time I was on the phone with my dealer and had to cycle the key only once to get it to clear...

Back in May of this year I had the same DESS problem and was told to keep my cell phone and other chipped key away from the key area...Everything was working fine from May until yesterday...

I've had three different modules since the Spyder was new and still have the EXACT same problem...

I am leaving to do a Skyline Drive/Blue Ridge Parkway/Tn. & Ga. 2000 mile trip sometime in the next two weeks...

I would like to have the peace of mind that this thing will NOT have a DESS ERROR and leave me stranded...

I have been having this same problem for a year and a half...BRP says the 4916 module is the fix all...and the problem is caused by something else...WHAT???

I would be very happy with the DESS turned off since BRP cannot fix this or tell me what is causing this...

larryd

 

[larryd]

No where do I see you mention the replacement of the IGNITION SWITCH!
Like I've said dozens of times but seems no one wants to believe me, in order to assure a fix both need to be replaced.

AJ

No ignition switch yet...My dealer would love to make my problem go away and they are doing everything they can...But, they do what BRP tells them to do...

I remember reading your post about 3 things that need to be replaced to fix the problem permanently...Can you direct me to this post and I'll forward it to my dealer???

THANK YOU, larryd

 

[jacobsonjerr]

My wife and I both bought new 2014 Spyders in June of 2015. STS & STLimited. My wife's Spyder has 2500 miles on it and mine has 4600 miles on it and BOTH Spyders have started displaying the "DESS Error" screen and won't start. It has happened when the Spyders are together and when we are on separate trips. I've read online about the problem but has BRP identified the problem and the fix? Is BRP paying for the fix? If not, how much does the repair cost? Any Advice? Thanks, Jerry

FOLLOW UP

Dealer has opened up a case for us with BRP. This information chain is very long. Would someone be kind enough to summarize:

* What are the temporary fixes that work to get our Spyders started?

* What is the permanent fix? The latest person said just the module isn't the fix because their new module had a DESS Error and someone else said there are 3 components to replace - if so what are they?

Thanks,
Jerry

 

[jcthorne]

Dealer has opened up a case for us with BRP. This information chain is very long. Would someone be kind enough to summarize:

* What are the temporary fixes that work to get our Spyders started?

* What is the permanent fix? The latest person said just the module isn't the fix because their new module had a DESS Error and someone else said there are 3 components to replace - if so what are they?

Thanks,
Jerry

Many, including myself feel the only permanent fix currently available is to disable the DESS system.

 

[Deanna777]

No where do I see you mention the replacement of the IGNITION SWITCH!
Like I've said dozens of times but seems no one wants to believe me, in order to assure a fix both need to be replaced.

AJ

AJ,

I have had the "Dess module & Switch" replaced on Aug. 28th 2015, and it has been 1year & 1 month since I have had both replaced. Also, I have not had the dess error show up.


Also, I have the older dess module part #( 710004190) the current part/up to date# is 710004916.

Deanna

 

[Deanna777]

Many, including myself feel the only permanent fix currently available is to disable the DESS system.

On Aug. 28th, 2015 I had the dess module,( 710004190) & the switch ( 710004413)replaced, since then I have not had the dess error/or bad key code show up.


Also, I carry my cell phone, and any other electronic devices. It has been 1 year & 1 month with out the dess error/or bad key code show up. I also have posted the above on this site.

Prior to Aug. 28th, 2015 I had the ( on July 14,2015) dess module replaced only. Deanna

 

[Deanna777]

Dealer has opened up a case for us with BRP. This information chain is very long. Would someone be kind enough to summarize:

* What are the temporary fixes that work to get our Spyders started?

* What is the permanent fix? The latest person said just the module isn't the fix because their new module had a DESS Error and someone else said there are 3 components to replace - if so what are they?

Thanks,
Jerry

Jerry, *** Temporary fixes that work : Turn on/off immediately, DO NOT LET YOUR SYSTEM SHUT DOWN for 4 to 5 cycles. ***
t

The permanent fix is: getting the dess module & switch replaced. I have a 2014 RTS-SE6. The first time I had the ( July 14,2015 ) dess module replaced, the 2nd time was ( on Aug. 28th, 2015) I had the dess module( part # 710004190) & the switch( part # 710004413) replaced, and it has been 1 year & 1 month since I have had the dess error show up. I know the above part #'s are not the current part #'s.

The current/up to date part # is 710004916.
Deanna

 

[larryd]

Many, including myself feel the only permanent fix currently available is to disable the DESS system.

I have ask my dealer to ask BRP to turn off my DESS but they won't...I cannot find anyone with the MEGA key other than you, and Texas is tooooo far to travel...

I would like VERY MUCH to have it turned off...If anyone can help with this please get in touch...I'm leaving PA later this week to do Sky Line Drive/Blue Ridge Parkway/TN & visiting a friend in GA...So does anyone know of someone along this route than can turn this off???

larryd

 

[PaladinLV]

SHORT LESSON on HOW DESS WORKS

So why can't BRP figure out where the problem lies?
Simple, there are three components involved and if any three or a combination of the three fail . . . You get the dreaded DESS error.

This is how all the parts work together in SIMPLE terms or as simple as I can make them.

The DESS sends out a "coded" signal.
This signal is applied to the ignition switch coil. The coils acts like an antenna and changes the signal to an EMF (electromagnetic field - something ALL coils do).
Embedded in the key is a passive transponder.
When energized by the EMF transmitted by coil, it transmits back reply code.
If the code is correct = all is good; if bad = DESS Error.

If the coil saturates (too much EMF) the transponder becomes overloaded and sends no reply or an unread reply.

So here is why any extra keys near your ignition is bogus reason for a failure. The key must be IN the slot making contact with the coil in order to receive the code and to be energized to send a reply.

The problem therefore or the CAUSE of a DESS error can be a faulty DESS module, faulty coil within the ignition switch, or your keys.

Replacing ONLY the DESS module might work for a while (so do quick fixes) or you could be lucky, but the only sure way (so far) of fixing the problem is replacing the module and the ignition switch.
When the ignition switch is replaced, you automatically get NEW KEYS! So, the switch replacement takes care of TWO possibilities.

Notice - have you heard of any 2016 failures yet?
Not to my knowledge. It's still maybe too early, but they did change HOW this entire mess operates for 2016.
Ever hear of a PRE-2014 having a problem?
Only 2014 - 2015 use the scheme I covered above.

So BRP knows there is a problem, I am very pro-active and when mine failed I went with photos and a bunch of paper from this website showing that BRP was replacing BOTH the DESS module AND the Ignition Switch! I strongly suggest similar action with your dealers.

AJ

 

[larryd]

SHORT LESSON on HOW DESS WORKS

So why can't BRP figure out where the problem lies?
Simple, there are three components involved and if any three or a combination of the three fail . . . You get the dreaded DESS error.

This is how all the parts work together in SIMPLE terms or as simple as I can make them.

The DESS sends out a "coded" signal.
This signal is applied to the ignition switch coil. The coils acts like an antenna and changes the signal to an EMF (electromagnetic field - something ALL coils do).
Embedded in the key is a passive transponder.
When energized by the EMF transmitted by coil, it transmits back reply code.
If the code is correct = all is good; if bad = DESS Error.

If the coil saturates (too much EMF) the transponder becomes overloaded and sends no reply or an unread reply.

So here is why any extra keys near your ignition is bogus reason for a failure. The key must be IN the slot making contact with the coil in order to receive the code and to be energized to send a reply.

The problem therefore or the CAUSE of a DESS error can be a faulty DESS module, faulty coil within the ignition switch, or your keys.

Replacing ONLY the DESS module might work for a while (so do quick fixes) or you could be lucky, but the only sure way (so far) of fixing the problem is replacing the module and the ignition switch.
When the ignition switch is replaced, you automatically get NEW KEYS! So, the switch replacement takes care of TWO possibilities.

Notice - have you heard of any 2016 failures yet?
Not to my knowledge. It's still maybe too early, but they did change HOW this entire mess operates for 2016.
Ever hear of a PRE-2014 having a problem?
Only 2014 - 2015 use the scheme I covered above.

So BRP knows there is a problem, I am very pro-active and when mine failed I went with photos and a bunch of paper from this website showing that BRP was replacing BOTH the DESS module AND the Ignition Switch! I strongly suggest similar action with your dealers.

AJ

My dealer informed me that BRP has said to replace the 4916 module again, new ign. switch & keys...Parts are ordered, and dealer will notify me when they have everything... Hopefully before I leave for my southern trip.... larryd

 

[Deanna777]

My dealer informed me that BRP has said to replace the 4916 module again, new ign. switch & keys...Parts are ordered and dealer will notify me when they have everything...Hopefully before I leave for my southern trip....larryd

Larryd, I hope you do get all the parts before your southern trip. Keep us posted! Also, good luck! Deanna

 

[wengerda]

My 2015 RT Limited.....Good luck

I had that error twice in 3 months on my 2016 F3L. When the error occurred, I took the key off the ignition, waited 30 seconds, and the error went away. Not sure what is the reason either.

 

[wengerda]

Add to the known problem, I only get the D.E.S.S Error on one of my keys. At least for now anyway.

I had the same error on both keys.

 

[wengerda]

So why can't BRP figure out where the problem lies?
Simple, there are three components involved and if any three or a combination of the three fail . . . the dreaded DESS error.

This is how all the parts work together in SIMPLE terms or as simple as I can make them.

The DESS sends out a "coded" signal.
This signal is applied to the ignition switch coil. The coils acts like and antenna and changes the signal to an EMF (electromagnetic field)field (something ALL coils do).
Embedded in the key is a passive transponder.
When energized by the EMF transmitted by coil, it transmits back reply code.
If the code is correct all is good; if bad DESS Error.

If the coil saturates (to much EMF) the transponder becomes overloaded and no reply or an unread reply.

So here is why an xtra keys near your ignition is bogus reason for a failure. The key must be IN the slot making contact with the coil in order to receive the code and to be energized to send a reply.

The problem therefore or the CAUSE of a DESS error can be a faulty DESS module, faulty coil within the ignition switch or your keys.

Replacing ONLY the DESS module might work for a while (so do quick fixes) or you could be lucky, but the only sure way (so far) of fixing the problem is module and ignition switch.
When the ignition switch is replaced you automatically get NEW KEYS! So the switch replacement takes care of TWO possibilities.

Notice - have you heard of any 2016 failures yet?
Not to my knowledge. It's still maybe too early, but they did change HOW this entire mess operates for 2016.
Ever hear of a PRE-2014 having a problem?
Only 2014 - 2015 use the scheme I covered above.

So BRP knows there is a problem, I am very pro-active and when mine failed I went with photos an a bunch of paper from this website showing that BRP was replacing BOTH the DESS module AND the Ignition Switch! I strongly suggest similar action with your dealers.

AJ

BTW I do have a 2016 F3L and I had the DESS error (key) twice in three months, with 8K miles.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I had the same error on both keys.

.Speaking from experience, once this starts - it doesn't cure itself - it just gets worse. Some here say you need to have a PIC to show your Dealer that it occurred .....BS.... it's in the computer, whether they can find it is another thing ....... You have a PIC, so demand they fix this problem....... OR at some point IT MAY NOT CLEAR ITSELF and you will need to go thru the "tow it to a dealer" nightmare (and HUGE expense). My DESS module is (now) bolted under the right headlight, so changing it is a 5 minute job. Yours will take 2 shop hrs......................Good Luck,...............Mike :thumbup:

 

[wengerda]

.Speaking from experience, once this starts - it doesn't cure itself - it just gets worse. Some here say you need to have a PIC to show your Dealer that it occurred .....BS.... it's in the computer, whether they can find it is another thing ....... You have a PIC, so demand they fix this problem....... OR at some point IT MAY NOT CLEAR ITSELF and you will need to go thru the "tow it to a dealer" nightmare (and HUGE expense . My DESS module is (now) bolted under the right headlight, so changing it is a 5 minute job. Yours will take 2 shop hrs......................Good Luck,...............Mike :thumbup:

Thank you Mike, I will have the dealer check my bike in the next few weeks.

 

[larryd]

Had my 2014 RTS back to my dealer today and they installed a NEW 4916 module, NEW Ignition Switch with New Keys & locks...

Leaving Sunday (10/16/16) for my 2000 mile trip down Skyline Drive/Blue Ridge Parkway/Floyd Garretts Muscle Car Museum/Smokey Mountains & visiting a friend in GA...

A BIG THANK YOU to BRP for stepping up and approving the repairs... Hopefully this will be the end of this problem for me... larryd

 

[jacobsonjerr]

Jerry, *** Temporary fixes that work : Turn on/off immediately, DO NOT LET YOUR SYSTEM SHUT DOWN for 4 to 5 cycles. ***
t

The permanent fix is: getting the dess module & switch replaced. I have a 2014 RTS-SE6. The first time I had the ( July 14,2015 ) dess module replaced, the 2nd time was ( on Aug. 28th, 2015) I had the dess module( part # 710004190) & the switch( part # 710004413) replaced, and it has been 1 year & 1 month since I have had the dess error show up. I know the above part #'s are not the current part #'s.

The current/up to date part # is 710004916.
Deanna

Thanks for the help. Dealer heard back from BRP and was told to install a new module in both Spyders. I told them that others were saying that didn't fix the problem and that the ignition switch also had to be replaced. They said they can only do what BRP authorizes them to do. So we will have to go down the route of having the new modules fail again and then hopefully they would replace the ignition switch as well. What seems odd to me is that BRP hasn't figured out exactly what the problem is and then we can all get the same fix the first time around. Jerry

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thanks for the help. Dealer heard back from BRP and was told to install a new module in both Spyders. I told them that others were saying that didn't fix the problem and that the ignition switch also had to be replaced. They said they can only do what BRP authorizes them to do. So we will have to go down the route of having the new modules fail again and then hopefully they would replace the ignition switch as well. What seems odd to me is that BRP hasn't figured out exactly what the problem is and then we can all get the same fix the first time around. Jerry

.....Jerry, I think what happens is there isn't a single entity at BRP who makes the decision as to what the FIX for this should be :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: .... So it depends on who gets asked by the dealer as to what the FIX will be ...... remember we are dealing with a CORPORATION here .............. The windshield ARM (breakage) has been a problem since 2010 and the FIX is so simple it's laughable (a new SAND mold) ..... but BRP - REFUSES - to fix it, and they don't care how much it costs them... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peteoz]

.....Jerry, I think what happens is there isn't a single entity at BRP who makes the decision as to what the FIX for this should be :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: .... So it depends on who gets asked by the dealer as to what the FIX will be ...... remember we are dealing with a CORPORATION here .............. The windshield ARM (breakage) has been a problem since 2010 and the FIX is so simple it's laughable (a new SAND mold) ..... but BRP - REFUSES - to fix it, and they don't care how much it costs them... Mike :thumbup:

They would indeed care how much it costs them, Mike...... that's what it's all about.

They would have financial modelling figures from their CFO showing that the cost of tooling up for the new sand mold, thus virtually admitting there is currently a faulty production process and paying for replacing all brackets produced under the old production process, is potentially more expensive than replacing only those that break and self insuring for any damages claims that might arise. Corporate management these days is all about the gamble and the annual bonus if you pull it off...... Hey, even if you don't pull it off and it backfires, you still get your golden handshake and move to another corporation, so what do you have to lose?

Pete