Cracked block - maybe

[ValleyRider]

We were riding from Lexington, NC to Greenville, NC on June 13. We exited I85 east of Durham, about 73 miles west of Greenville. We were on a two lane county road and came to a stop. Prior to stopping I was unable to downshift from 4th. We were able to get to a safe place and called BRP.

To make a long story short we put the spyder on a flatbed tow truck and took it to a dealer in Greenville.

Preliminary report is that the spyder has a cracked block. It has 3800 miles on it.

Will know early know next week what is the real proplem is.

Has anyone else had a similar event?

 

[Bob Denman]

:yikes: I hpe thatyour warranty is still in effect... :yikes:
Good Luck; please let us know what is found once they peek under your bike's tupperware! :thumbup:

 

[ARtraveler]

OP posted on 3/26/13 that the :spyder2: was going in for 600 mile service. Looks like he's talking about a new :ani29: here.

:bbq::bbq:

 

[myronmathis]

Shut Down

I was riding at 70 MPH when my 2011 RSS just cut off around the end of may. I finally got it to the dealer a few weeks ago but they have not taken the engine down yet. The dealer explained that the warranty is still valid, but I have heard horror stories of BRP not honoring warranties in situations similar to mine.

 

[ValleyRider]

Turns out, after waing 10 days for repairs, that the dealers first analysis was not correct. It seems that when I did the 600 mile maintenance the dealer over tightened the two screws that hold the cover on the oil filter housing. This resulted in the threads being stripped. Eventually these screws came loose causing the oil to leak out. After less than an hours work it was back on the road all running like new.

 

[NancysToy]

Turns out, after waing 10 days for repairs, that the dealers first analysis was not correct. It seems that when I did the 600 mile maintenance the dealer over tightened the two screws that hold the cover on the oil filter housing. This resulted in the threads being stripped. Eventually these screws came loose causing the oil to leak out. After less than an hours work it was back on the road all running like new.

Glad your problem is fixed. I'd find a new dealer.....PRONTO!

 

[Big Arm]

I'd find a new dealer.....PRONTO!

:agree: Also glad they were able to get you going again. I assume they tapped the block for larger screws ???

 

[beanoil]

:agree: Also glad they were able to get you going again. I assume they tapped the block for larger screws ???

It's quite possible it only needed new screws. If the threads were damaged in the engine block, HeliCoils (there are other brand names also) should have been installed. There is no room in the filter cover for larger screws.IIRC.

 

[Tierhog]

Glad your problem is fixed. I'd find a new dealer.....PRONTO!

And people wonder why we do our own maintenance... I having a bearing repack/rear tire/belt tightening I'm letting a dealer try, and I cringe at the thought of it. 2 years of Spydering, haven't even set foot into a dealership.

 

[Bob Ledford]

I agree with Scotty for more then a simple reason.

a. The techie had to have known he over tightened the screws.

b. Ten days on a new owner, on a recent service, is not justifiable in my book (my opinion).

c. Wonder if they caught the metal chips from the Heli-coils or just left them where they fell?

 

[widowmaker2011]

Whoa.... What has been missed entirely in this thread is that the original poster stated it would not shift down from 4th gear. On the SE5 this is a clear sign of no oil pressure. This was confirmed by the dealer finding the problem with the filter cover and the missing oil, so how much damage do you think there is in an engine that was running down the road with no oil pressure? by fixing the leak the dealer only temporarily put a bandaid on something that is probably much worse. I don't care what type of engine it is, no engine can have that happen and not have sustained damage. It may run fine now but what you can't see is the internal damage. I would go back to dealer and mention this small fact that they failed to tell you and ask them if they're going to warranty your engine after the BRP warranty expires.

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[NancysToy]

Whoa.... What has been missed entirely in this thread is that the original poster stated it would not shift down from 4th gear. On the SE5 this is a clear sign of no oil pressure. This was confirmed by the dealer finding the problem with the filter cover and the missing oil, so how much damage do you think there is in an engine that was running down the road with no oil pressure? by fixing the leak the dealer only temporarily put a bandaid on something that is probably much worse. I don't care what type of engine it is, no engine can have that happen and not have sustained damage. It may run fine now but what you can't see is the internal damage. I would go back to dealer and mention this small fact that they failed to tell you and ask them if they're going to warranty your engine after the BRP warranty expires.

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The oil pressure needed for the engine and the oil pressure needed for the hydraulic shifting mechanism are not the same. The shifter needs more pressure, and is adversely affected even by having the oil a little low, while the engine remains perfectly happy and the low oil pressure switch is still satisfied. Loss of oil pressure because of a blown transmission filter cover does not directly affect the engine...at least not immediately...until a lot of oil is lost. If the repair of the cover was done well, there should not be further problems....but The OP needs to find another dealer for his service. This one is a dud!

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: The two systems are, of course; linked together... But they don't necessarily have to live and die in the same manner...:thumbup:

 

[widowmaker2011]

That's pretty much my point, no one knows how low the oil got and the original poster says they came to a stop on a two lane country road. one could read that to mean the Spyder stopped. my point is that we can assume the only problem that occurred from low oil pressure was the shifting but I never like to assume anything, especially when it comes to low oil and low oil pressure in that motor. Would be interesting to find out if the only problem was shifting, because if it actually did stop running we are talking about a whole bigger problem

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[NancysToy]

That's pretty much my point, no one knows how low the oil got and the original poster says they came to a stop on a two lane country road. one could read that to mean the Spyder stopped. my point is that we can assume the only problem that occurred from low oil pressure was the shifting but I never like to assume anything, especially when it comes to low oil and low oil pressure in that motor. Would be interesting to find out if the only problem was shifting, because if it actually did stop running we are talking about a whole bigger problem

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If the low oil pressure switch wasn't activated, and limp mode wasn't triggered, the oil pressure was not dangerously low for the engine. These are not plain bearings like an automobile. The ball and roller bearings could probably last for several minutes without harm if synthetic oil is used....even if the oil was drained. If the problem happens to you, do as you see fit, but your fears are unfounded and there is no need to sound the alarm. Even if there was a future problem, the OP has his service records to show what is going on, so warranty coverage or recovery through suing the dealer should not be difficult.

 

[widowmaker2011]

I don't mean to sound the alarm so to speak but perhaps I just expect a higher level of customer service. In the original paragraph, it says, the way I read it anyways, that the machine stopped. If it was just a momentary shift issue, you are correct and I apologize.
This machine cost over $25,000 and you could buy a Ford Mustang for that. If I took my Mustang in for service and they over tighten the bolts on the oil cooler, and it loses some oil, then they repair the stripped bolts, I am NOT going to be satisfied unless there is some assurance that any damage that was done will not affect me in the future. What is the difference here? We have no idea how this dealer even repaired this. Scotty, as you know as well as I do, the most likely situation was that the case threads stripped out, because the case is a softer metal then the screws used for the housing. If they had to use A helicoil to fix it, I would not be satisfied at all. Another comment in this thread mentions this very thing. This was the 600 mile service for heaven sakes, not the 40,000 mile service. this motor was almost brand new.
This dealer could very easily put a BRP extended warranty on a Spyder for a few hundred dollars his cost. When we are dealing with machines that cost as much as cars, we should expect the same level of service and if they're not willing to deliver that, they should stick to selling 2500 dollar ATVs. Just my 2 cents. If you would be satisfied with how this was fixed on your motor running low on oil brand new machine that is your prerogative. I would just expect more. I'm probably just used to having customers demand this after being in the car business for 25 years and making mistakes. after a while, you concentrate on fixing the customer as much as you concentrate on fixing the vehicle, as a few hundred dollars will go a long way to avoid hassles in the future. Not saying my opinion is correct, but I guess we don't have all the facts and would want to know every detail about how low the oil was, and what type of repair was used how to fix the stripped screws

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[JJW SpyderRider]

The oil pressure needed for the engine and the oil pressure needed for the hydraulic shifting mechanism are not the same. The shifter needs more pressure, and is adversely affected even by having the oil a little low, while the engine remains perfectly happy and the low oil pressure switch is still satisfied. Loss of oil pressure because of a blown transmission filter cover does not directly affect the engine...at least not immediately...until a lot of oil is lost. If the repair of the cover was done well, there should not be further problems....but The OP needs to find another dealer for his service. This one is a dud!

:agree: My new RT-S SE5 had a pinched O-Ring from the factory. The oil started to leak out in about 100 miles and made a big mess. I had oil all over both sides of the trike and even on the dash! I thought I lost all my oil and the SE was having a hard time shifting. Turns out less than a Qt was missing but enough pressure was lost from the cap that it hurt the shifting. 11K later and still no sign of an issue.

 

[spyryder]

If the low oil pressure switch wasn't activated, and limp mode wasn't triggered, the oil pressure was not dangerously low for the engine. These are not plain bearings like an automobole. The ball and roller bearings could probably last for several minutes without harm if synthetic oil is used....even if the oil was drained. If the problem happens to you, do as you see fit, but your fears are unfounded and there is no need to sound the alarm. Even if there was a future problem, the OP has his service records to show what is going on, so warranty coverage or recovery through suing the dealer should not be difficult.

:hun: The Spyder engine DOES in fact have plain bearings just like an automobile.

 

[NancysToy]

:hun: The Spyder engine DOES in fact have plain bearings just like an automobile.

I guess I was thinking about the crank bearings and not the rod bearings. In actuality the Spyder has a mixture of both.. At any rate, rod bearing damage is obviopus and noisy, so I expect not harm was done.

Not our problem anyway, ony the OP needs to be satisfied. While I might or might not accept Helicoils, depending on the situation, I am not the person affected, so if the OP is satisfied with the repair, and there was likely no lasting damage, there is no reason to alarm him needlessly.....just warn him about an incompetent dealer, who caused the problem in the first place, then missed the mark on an obvious diagnosis.