Converting a 2013rt to a 2014rt

[jcthorne]

:shocked: I'm sorry to hear that the troubles appear to be ongoing...
Where is the fuel dripping from? :dontknow:

Second that, please see if you can locate the source of the drip. I had pretty bad gas fumes but never had drips so only guessed where the fumes were coming from. Your drip may be a very important clue!

 

[Ramjet]

Full tank?

gas boiling and expanding?

 

[Magdave]

:shocked: I'm sorry to hear that the troubles appear to be ongoing...
Where is the fuel dripping from? :dontknow:

Evap hose overflow on the bottom right. :banghead: Started the ride with 3/4 of a tank ended with 1/4. Didn't check for boiling gas this time but will next time. Geeze I hate having a post flight checklist :gaah:One thing just popped into my head is I did let it idle in the driveway for 5min while I moved some things in the garage before parking it. Related? :dontknow:

 

[Bob Denman]

It shouldn't have been able to push fuel out with the tank at those levels... :gaah:
Purge valve?? :dontknow:

 

[Magdave]

It shouldn't have been able to push fuel out with the tank at those levels... :gaah:
Purge valve?? :dontknow:

I am beginning to wonder about that. Would it toss a code if it was bad? If it is I would guess it is not opening. Obviously I am getting enough fume flow to condense in the hose or worse. I am going to take a WAG and say the idling heated the tank and canister up enough to push excess fumes out that condensed. :dontknow:

Just what and when causes the purge valve to open?

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: :dontknow:
You may want ot send a PM to Lamont about it... :thumbup:

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

I am beginning to wonder about that. Would it toss a code if it was bad? If it is I would guess it is not opening. Obviously I am getting enough fume flow to condense in the hose or worse. I am going to take a WAG and say the idling heated the tank and canister up enough to push excess fumes out that condensed. :dontknow:

Just what and when causes the purge valve to open?

I have been told by my dealer that valve does not open to purge unless the rpm's are over 5000. Idling in your driveway for 5 min should have no bearing on this, something is not right causing the fuel to drip. I would bet the evap can is full of fuel and that combined with the heat under the plastic is a bad combo! My bike was still getting a slight fuel smell but I never had any drips. When it was new the fuel smell was scary bad and even though the dealer "couldn't find anything wrong" they magically fixed it for the most part.

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

Lets see things that effect heat output of and engine;

Ambient temperature.
HP going to waste.
Friction (maybe synthetic vs standard oil)
Drag due to poor setup and drag based on poor alignment?
Lean running engines with restrictive air flow?
Driving styles?
Engine or drive train defect?

They keep track and should be looking at serial number ranges to continua this and try and identify any potential reasons related to Mfg date or raw materials.

Simply a function of cost if 5% of the customers complain it is less expensive to say good bays to those 5% than fixing with major renovations all the 2013 machines or worse yet open up a "can of worms" by admitting a problem. Again very costly.

I am taking things into my own hands and really do not see real bad issue excpet roasting my right foot.

But I am doing the following;

CAT gone.

Heat wrap the pipes past the CAT Y.

Aftermarket Exhaust Two Bros and their fuel management system with 5 maps based on the setup I end up with.

Kewl Metal Air box and filter. The two above to allow that motor to move more air in and out and run a little richer and cooler. Mid range performance concentrated.

High temp insulation on the fuel tank and the recall provided protection for the brake cylinder.

I am also looking at higher cooling capacity radiator made from a higher heat draw material and higher BTU rating per cubic foot of air. Slightly thicker but dissipation is much higher so is the flow capacity.

One other thing I am looking into is fan for drawing air out of the tupperware thermostatically controlled. This will be an option of the other steps do not work.

I will be spending about $1700.00 yup ticks me off but I am not going to take hit on 2013 machine I just got. All the above also will give ma little better engine performance so its not all for the cooling but that certainly will be a benefit.


Feedback appreciated.

Your efforts are to be commended but to what degree are you willing to spend good money to "fix" their problem. We are all right there with you but fear of being punished by the warranty gods will keep most of us from making major mods to the engine control system or emissions system. I know a lot of people do it but even removing the evap canister could kill any warranty you have if they get picky. I have wrapped my pipes from the heads to the cat but that's where I draw the line on mine. I can snip some wires and pull that wrap off in 30 minuets, no harm no foul. I would rather spend the money on accessories I want then trying to fix a heat issue I shouldn't have anyway. Personally I think CuznJohn might have the right idea as airflow under the Tupperware could just be the fix but he also spent a large amount of money he should not have had to but it will not affect any of his warranty either. Only time will tell we need warmer weather.

 

[jcthorne]

Mine had the fumes scary bad too. Mancuso observed them, was able to witness the problem and determined the obnoxious fumes were normal and no repair was necessary. Actually states so on the repair order......

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

Mine had the fumes scary bad too. Mancuso observed them, was able to witness the problem and determined the obnoxious fumes were normal and no repair was necessary. Actually states so on the repair order......

Keep that copy of that work order! I have a work order where the tech checked the temp on my plastic fuel cap at 153 degrees on a 73 degree morning. Not to mention all the pics I have of logging the temps myself. One of the guy's I ride with (Harley rider) his wife bought me an Oveglove to get my gas cap off with, I'm the butt of their jokes now. Right after I got it they got me a bag of marshmellows, funny right! :roflblack: one of them was at that "thunder in the valley" ralley when that demo burnt so of course they think I'm nuts for buying one.

 

[Ramjet]

Your efforts are to be commended but to what degree are you willing to spend good money to "fix" their problem. We are all right there with you but fear of being punished by the warranty gods will keep most of us from making major mods to the engine control system or emissions system. I know a lot of people do it but even removing the evap canister could kill any warranty you have if they get picky. I have wrapped my pipes from the heads to the cat but that's where I draw the line on mine. I can snip some wires and pull that wrap off in 30 minuets, no harm no foul. I would rather spend the money on accessories I want then trying to fix a heat issue I shouldn't have anyway. Personally I think CuznJohn might have the right idea as airflow under the Tupperware could just be the fix but he also spent a large amount of money he should not have had to but it will not affect any of his warranty either. Only time will tell we need warmer weather.

the choices would be

let it deteriorate
take huge loss on trading it.
do the mods
file legal action

I will do the mods lessor of all evils.

 

[den1953]

2013 RT, No Way!!

I consider myself lucky in that I didn't jump on that 2013 RT-S that I demoed last year. I'm finding the negatives outweigh the positives on that model year and will wait-out the remainder of the winter months before taking another demo ride but on a 2014 RT-S. I too think it would be cost prohibitive to get the problems fixed (should there be any) on that 2013 even if the purchase price was significantly discounted. As it is I am still making payments on my 2012 Victory Cross Country and just got a Utopia rider backrest for it to see if that helps with my back problems on long rides. It might be a 2015 model year Spyder RT that takes it's place by the time my loan is paid off.

 

[Ramjet]

Probably a good choice but I am a guy who tinkers all the time with my bikes so this is not big deal and although I do not advocate for anyone else I take it as a challenge as in "I am smarter than the Engineers at Can-Am".

Cool air in hot air out scenario.

Those Engineers are held hostage by marketing guys and by the regulations and bureaucracy of the large companies and ISO.

 

[stewartj239]

We are all right there with you but fear of being punished by the warranty gods will keep most of us from making major mods to the engine control system or emissions system. I know a lot of people do it but even removing the evap canister could kill any warranty you have if they get picky.

Everything he has done can be reversed. Taking the the evap canister off takes 30 minutes. It takes 30 minutes to put it back on too. BRP pitches the Akrapovic as their recommended aftermarket exhaust. If they were going to void your warranty, they wouldn't be doing that. The modifications that I think BRP would be worried about are internal engine mods such as high compression pistons, cams, big bore kits, etc.

 

[stewartj239]

I am a guy who tinkers all the time with my bikes so this is not big deal and although I do not advocate for anyone else I take it as a challenge as in "I am smarter than the Engineers at Can-Am".

Those Engineers are held hostage by marketing guys and by the regulations and bureaucracy of the large companies and ISO.

Yup. For every bike that is mass produced, you can bet that it does not leave the factory running the way the engineers designed it to. That is where the aftermarket comes in. For me, I too always tune any bike I've ever owned to run the way it was meant to. There is almost always a night and day difference between stock and the finished product.

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

Yes your right but if you want to go there removing the CAT and the evap canister is actually a federal crime. Any dealer who repairs a bike with those parts removed is saying it's ok for it to be that way and could come back on them if anything got sticky. Don't get me wrong because I'm right there with you on your mods and if I did not have 5 years warranty I'd most likely doing some to. As far as the Akrapovic muffler BRP offers it does meet the requirements needed to get by the feds, noise emissions. Ever notice that the factory muffler has a license number stamped in it?

 

[Ramjet]

Yes your right but if you want to go there removing the CAT and the evap canister is actually a federal crime. Any dealer who repairs a bike with those parts removed is saying it's ok for it to be that way and could come back on them if anything got sticky. Don't get me wrong because I'm right there with you on your mods and if I did not have 5 years warranty I'd most likely doing some to. As far as the Akrapovic muffler BRP offers it does meet the requirements needed to get by the feds, noise emissions. Ever notice that the factory muffler has a license number stamped in it?

I guess when the Feds setup check points I am in big trouble.......:yikes:

The alternative would be enough air to keep the differential temp in that physical area down. But I suspect stagnant air and air flow obstruction allows the radiant heat to sit and increase till it stabilizes. Now moving air to take that heat away will keep that stabilized heat lower.

 

[stewartj239]

Yes your right but if you want to go there removing the CAT and the evap canister is actually a federal crime. Any dealer who repairs a bike with those parts removed is saying it's ok for it to be that way and could come back on them if anything got sticky. Don't get me wrong because I'm right there with you on your mods and if I did not have 5 years warranty I'd most likely doing some to. As far as the Akrapovic muffler BRP offers it does meet the requirements needed to get by the feds, noise emissions. Ever notice that the factory muffler has a license number stamped in it?

There is no emissions testing in my state, so I am legal. I understand your concerns, but I think you've got to look at what would have to happen where you would need to use your warranty. These engines are extremely reliable and catastrophic failure is extremely rare. Other than that, what other issues would you envision and how often do they happen? Is it worth running the bike at sub-par performance when you can make it rip? It all depends on where your comfort level is, but there are certainly some minor things that you can do that should not void your warranty. I would think that BRP would have to clearly state up front what you can't do rather than make that judgement after something happens. Is there any wording like that in your extended warranty?

 

[stewartj239]

The alternative would be enough air to keep the differential temp in that physical area down. But I suspect stagnant air and air flow obstruction allows the radiant heat to sit and increase till it stabilizes. Now moving air to take that heat away will keep that stabilized heat lower.

With the stock airbox and resonator in there, there is no room for air to move. Take that pig out and it is amazing how much air will be able to move around inside the tupperware.

 

[Ramjet]

Yes indeed the pics you posted illustrated that very well