Continuing DESS Issue?

[Spyderlass]

I often wonder why did they change the design of the DESS module in 2014? If it worked in 2013 and prior, why not just go back to those units? Remember the old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

The previous dess system is not the same as the 2014 on system. Currently the key code is held in the ECU and the dess unit is an intermediary, previously the key code was held in the dess unit. I've no idea why BRP changed it but, in my opinion it was less secure in the previous system. I looked carefully at the wiring diagrams for the previous system just in case I had a dess failure, I reckon I could bypass it with two connections. I'm guessing that BRP deliberately attempted to make the system more secure but mucked up electrically with the early (2014 >) units.

 

[Grandpot]

The previous dess system is not the same as the 2014 on system. Currently the key code is held in the ECU and the dess unit is an intermediary, previously the key code was held in the dess unit. I've no idea why BRP changed it but, in my opinion it was less secure in the previous system. I looked carefully at the wiring diagrams for the previous system just in case I had a dess failure, I reckon I could bypass it with two connections. I'm guessing that BRP deliberately attempted to make the system more secure but mucked up electrically with the early (2014 >) units.

I'm sure they had good intentions. On the other hand, I have never heard of someone stealing a Spyder by circumventing the DESS unit on the early machines.

 

[jcthorne]

Just for sake of discussion, they made it LESS secure as it can now be disabled via software without a valid key. This is why I keep telling folks the DESS only serves to keep legitimate owners from riding the bike. Does extremely little to prevent theft.

 

[h0gr1der]

Just for sake of discussion, they made it LESS secure as it can now be disabled via software without a valid key. This is why I keep telling folks the DESS only serves to keep legitimate owners from riding the bike. Does extremely little to prevent theft.

Mr. jcthrone,

Is the DESS able to be disabled via BUDS? The In Plain Sight key pretty much shows Spyders aren't swiped too often, so is it really as simple as that? Is this an option open via the dealers, I'm getting ready for my first service, so they may be able to head off this issue by a delete.

 

[HayRog]

I've posted quite a bit about this issue, including fixes ….. I see you have a 2015, if under warranty they WILL fix it. ….. Yes this was a warning, the DESS doesn't ever get better - it does get worse until it finally Fails completely..... that could be 5, 10, or 15 starts from now or the next time..... The latest START procedure ( If you have the Orange screen of death :yikes: ) ….. is move the Spyder about 25 ft. away from where it is parked( if possible ) …. then turn key on - off 5 X's in succession quickly . Then try and start normally …. hopefully the screen has cleared …… If you have to buy the DESS module ( do not buy the Ignition switch - Yet ) CHEAPCYCLEPARTS.COM sells it for about $135.00 …… PM me and I'll help you re-place it …. I did this with " w6ada " …………….good luck ….. Mike hyea:

Thanks for the info and very gracious offer Mike. If it gets to that I'll contact you.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Thanks for the info and very gracious offer Mike. If it gets to that I'll contact you.

Glad to help ….. here's the thing .. Once you get a DESS code - that means it's on it's way to complete failure …. If it fails in your garage that's not too bad, but what are the odds ???? ……… It's more likely to fail while on a ride - now you have to have it TOWED it to some dealer …. maybe they will fix it immed. , but not likely ….. it could be weeks or months before you get it back …… Now that $135.00 part ( module ) costs you about $750.00. + wait time … if mine fails I would be ordering a new module that day ….. I have read every DESS post on the Forum, and NO Module has EVER healed itself ….. good luck …. Mike hyea:

 

[jcthorne]

Mr. jcthrone,

Is the DESS able to be disabled via BUDS? The In Plain Sight key pretty much shows Spyders aren't swiped too often, so is it really as simple as that? Is this an option open via the dealers, I'm getting ready for my first service, so they may be able to head off this issue by a delete.

Its a simple toggle in BUDS. With or without a valid key in the bike.

Most dealers do not purchase a sufficient licence to BUDS to allow them to use the setting. A few do and a few independent shops for the reasons in this thread and others.

 

[Deanna777]

Got a DESS error code yesterday, I was hoping never to see this
Good thing is that the bike ( after a few choice words) started up again 10 seconds later. Will this be the start of a module failure ? I'm hoping not. But thanks to this thread I'm fully informed.

What year is your spyder?
Deanna

 

[trikermutha]

I thought I read somewhere there is a backorder till July on the modules??

Found one cheaper here

http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/can-am-dess-module-710004916-part.html

 

[Hypurone]

There is also a TST bulletin out there for when the DESS error comes up again after replacing the module, even with the latest & greatest one... It seems there is a separate antenna that can be replaced! I will try to find the info and post here....

EDIT: Found it....

 

[trikermutha]

I thought the antenna was part if the ignition switch?

 

[Deanna777]

There is also a TST bulletin out there for when the DESS error comes up again after replacing the module, even with the latest & greatest one... It seems there is a separate antenna that can be replaced! I will try to find the info and post here....

EDIT: Found it....

View attachment 173115

HI,

**** I got this message from my Dealership on July 14, 2015 and it said" Summary: This TST explains the reason a customer may experience, intermittently a D.E.S.S error message in the cluster. Type: General

TST Detail:

Refer to TST Roadster 2nd Generation D.E.S.S Principal Of Operations( 2014 and UP) to fully understand the principal of the operation of the latest D.E.S.S generation.

Problem:
Intermittently the ignition key may not be recognized causing the unit not to start. The D.E.S.S ERROR message will be displayed in the cluster.

Solution:
Replace the D.E.S.S module.
Program the keys using the B.U.D.S referring to the 2014 RT shop manual section Digitally Encoded Security System( D.E.S.S)

Note" if after the replacement of the D.E.S.S module the problem reoccurs, update the previously opened BOSS WEB Case or open a BOSS WEB case and report situation. *****

I also posted the above info on a THREAD that I posted on 8/13/2015 Titled " D.E.S.S KEY Code AGAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it has 31 pages long & 758 Replies, & 151,906 Views

Deanna

 

[HayRog]

What year is your spyder?
Deanna

C
Deanna, sorry for the late reply.
2015 RT-L, 18000 miles, 2 error code to date.
I cycled the ignition 5 times (per Bluenight Mike) after the last incident - not happened since.
Wife doesn't trust it ��
Kinda hoping my Dealer (when I contact them) will bypass the module.
Anyone on this forum do it ? I'll travel

 

[HayRog]

Just an update.

Bike left at the dealers this morning (Elk Grove Power Sports) with an explanation of problem, and a request for a new DESS module.

 

[trikermutha]

May not be the module. Could be the DESS antenna too..

 

[billybovine]

May not be the module. Could be the DESS antenna too..

Why?

1

 

[trikermutha]

Why?

1

Why what? Why the antenna?

2 reasons

1:If The D.E.S.S. ERROR message is displayed in the cluster after replacing DESS
Module 710004916, then please replace the Dess Antenna 219800373 sold separately.
Please do NOT replace the Ignition Switch for the D.E.S.S. ERROR message.

2:With first D.E.S.S. module production,when the D.E.S.S. module was sending his signal to the
antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna was too strong and
the key chip was saturated. This saturation changed the data transmitted back to the D.E.S.S.
module causing a bad reading of the key chip. A ferrite has been added in
new 710004916 module to reduce RFI/EMI signals.

Now I know why there was ring ferrite on my first DESS Module and not the replacement. Now they are internal.

 

[stmike 1800]

Why what? Why the antenna?

2 reasons

1:If The D.E.S.S. ERROR message is displayed in the cluster after replacing DESS
Module 710004916, then please replace the Dess Antenna 219800373 sold separately.
Please do NOT replace the Ignition Switch for the D.E.S.S. ERROR message.

2:With first D.E.S.S. module production,when the D.E.S.S. module was sending his signal to the
antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna was too strong and
the key chip was saturated. This saturation changed the data transmitted back to the D.E.S.S.
module causing a bad reading of the key chip. A ferrite has been added in
new 710004916 module to reduce RFI/EMI signals.

Now I know why there was ring ferrite on my first DESS Module and not the replacement. Now they are internal.

BRP sleds have had the same problem.

 

[billybovine]

Why what? Why the antenna?

2 reasons

1:If The D.E.S.S. ERROR message is displayed in the cluster after replacing DESS
Module 710004916, then please replace the Dess Antenna 219800373 sold separately.
Please do NOT replace the Ignition Switch for the D.E.S.S. ERROR message.

2:With first D.E.S.S. module production,when the D.E.S.S. module was sending his signal to the
antenna to read the key chip, the radio frequency produced by the antenna was too strong and
the key chip was saturated. This saturation changed the data transmitted back to the D.E.S.S.
module causing a bad reading of the key chip. A ferrite has been added in
new 710004916 module to reduce RFI/EMI signals.

Now I know why there was ring ferrite on my first DESS Module and not the replacement. Now they are internal.

The DESS antenna is nothing but a simple coil of wire. So a continuity check with an ohm meter will tell you if it is good or not.

 

[trikermutha]

The DESS antenna is nothing but a simple coil of wire. So a continuity check with an ohm meter will tell you if it is good or not.

Just posted what was on the bulletin. Maybe they use less of a coil of wire than before on the antenna?

Maybe I will get the old and new OHMS and see what results I get.