Compressor

[spacetiger]

An interesting thread.

The rear suspension is an odd setup as it requires both an air bag/compressor and rear shock. My experience with the rear spring tells me it alone is not capable of handling the rear suspension needs. Add to this the collective experience of other riders that the air bag is problematic; air leaks and pump malfunctions.

The OP and I have been working on our suspensions and are going down a route to just rely on the rear shock to handle the rear suspension needs. My change out of the rear spring to handle all the loads it will see has eliminated the need to have the air bag/compressor. I do not understand why Can Am didn't go this route - or with a proper air shock. It seems the elimination of the electronics, air bag, compressor would have cut considerable cost, complexity and manufacturer/assembly costs; just put the proper spring with remote preload adjuster like most sport bikes have today.

Jerry

 

[spacetiger]

I guess I’m a rather unsophisticated Spyder Ryder, but I really like the ACS.
I regularly use the on the fly suspension change switch.
While I’m sure anything can be improved and I wish you luck personally I can’t see anything wrong with the current set up.

Well, other than the rear shock bottoming out alot, I like it too... I've tried every setting on the air bag, and the rear shock bottoms out with me as a solo rider.

There is no sophistication to it, put a spring stiff enough to not bottom out, how hard is that? I just cannot figure out how they are not catching this poor performance out of the front and rear before the bike goes on sale..

Jerry

 

[DrewNJ]

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[spacetiger]

Hmmm.
I weigh about 215 and have never had the rear shock bottom out.
I haven’t ridden two up for quite some time but when my wife climbed aboard the system compensated well and even then didn’t bottom out.

I would guess that either your system is not set up correctly or has a defective component.

Go look where your rubber bumper is and tell me what it looks like.

I have had had my rear shock out and have removed and tested the spring. The only thing wrong with the oem 2012 spring is that is not stiff enough for the loads. I tried using the 2013. Spring with additional preload spacer and the shock still bottoms out, but no more. The stiffer (800 lb/in) spring is just right. Spring rate sounds high but it took a 900 lb/in Eibach on a FJ1300 rear shock to get my 1983 GL650 rear sorted out right.

again, go lean down with a flash light to see where your rubber bumper is on the rear shock.

jerry

 

[spacetiger]

I run an OEM RT manual airbag setup on my RS. The spring on the RS is stiffer than the RT spring so I run lower pressures. I leave the shock preload adjuster at the 3rd notch and run 15lbs when riding solo and air up to 30lbs riding 2 up. I've had this system on my RS for a good amount of time with no issues.
Its much easier to air the bag up than to mess with the preload adjuster on the shock...IMHO

No need to mess with a preload adjuster if you set it up right the first time.

have you looked to see where your rubber bumper is?

 

[DrewNJ]

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[DrewNJ]

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[spacetiger]

I guess it is too hard to look and see where your rubber is. Doesn't matter if the bike is running. If you have bottomed out, your bumper will be wedged up at the top.

And yes, you can adjust your preload to cover the range of loads you will see 1 or 2 up. Just look at the front suspension where they went with a no preload adjustable oem shock. Or how about all the Elka shock owners. The front shock can be adjusted, but I bet all ride as is, 1 or 2 up. You just hedge the preload setting.

 

[DrewNJ]

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[spacetiger]

I went down to the shed and looked.
The bumper is not wedged in.
I have Elkas in the front.

Again, if you perceive a problem then I wish you all the luck in fixing it.
However to state that there is a system wide defect I find a bit OTT, IMHO.

its the rear shock to check for the rubber bumper. I would be surprised if the front bumpers were wedged since your aftermarket shock have greater preload set up and compression damping than oem. The point of this discussion of the latest posting was the rear spring is insufficient to do the job.

On your comment about the system wide defect being over the top, this thread was about the air system for the rear suspension. I do think there has been enough postings on this system on the bike to suggest it is problematic (compressor, fittings, etc) and not OTT. My posting was to suggest putting in a proper rated spring will alleviate the need of the air bag. I suggested a simple way for other riders to check if they have an issue, just go look where you rubber bumper for the rear shock. Why is that a problem? Just trying to help other riders.

The front was a reference to cite a single setting can work for 1 or 2 riders. Although 2 up might put more weight on rear at a standstill (it also puts weight on the front at rest too), there is a thing called weight transfer during braking Drew. You can bet any load on a bike is going to affect the front and rear suspension within the entire riding envelope, especially if it is above the CG of the bike. But, like you say, you can do anything you want bro.

And what is it with the comments "if you perceive a problems..." Like I'm making something up? I suppose if you are ignorant than you are happy, you do not need to be educated. But did you ever wonder why the factory changed the springs front and rear, shocks in so short a period on the RT line (2010-2012)? Why did you buy Elka's for the front and other riders buy them for the rear?

 

[MarkLawson]

its the rear shock to check for the rubber bumper. I would be surprised if the front bumpers were wedged since your aftermarket shock have greater preload set up and compression damping than oem. The point of this discussion of the latest posting was the rear spring is insufficient to do the job.

On your comment about the system wide defect being over the top, this thread was about the air system for the rear suspension. I do think there has been enough postings on this system on the bike to suggest it is problematic (compressor, fittings, etc) and not OTT. My posting was to suggest putting in a proper rated spring will alleviate the need of the air bag. I suggested a simple way for other riders to check if they have an issue, just go look where you rubber bumper for the rear shock. Why is that a problem? Just trying to help other riders.

The front was a reference to cite a single setting can work for 1 or 2 riders. Although 2 up might put more weight on rear at a standstill (it also puts weight on the front at rest too), there is a thing called weight transfer during braking Drew. You can bet any load on a bike is going to affect the front and rear suspension within the entire riding envelope, especially if it is above the CG of the bike. But, like you say, you can do anything you want bro.

And what is it with the comments "if you perceive a problems..." Like I'm making something up? I suppose if you are ignorant than you are happy, you do not need to be educated. But did you ever wonder why the factory changed the springs front and rear, shocks in so short a period on the RT line (2010-2012)? Why did you buy Elka's for the front and other riders buy them for the rear?

Seems to be clear what Roger means. You have a problem & he does not. You believe the problem is symptomatic for all Spyders in scope, yet Roger is not having the problem you describe. He disagrees with you that is it a problem on all of the RTs, therefore his comment concerning your perception. You believe Roger has the same problem that he has clearly said he does not, and even after he checked the bumper you asked him to check.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: If Roger says that his bike is fine; why are you having trouble believing it? :dontknow:

 

[DrewNJ]

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[DrewNJ]

And I'm still not sure what it is with the attitude around here where if one person has a problem, then obviously everyone HAS to have the same problem. And if they don't know they have a problem, they are ignorant and just don't realize it....sheesh...
Seems like I'm always being told my machine has issues that it doesn't have, and that the SL solution is to come here and complain without doing anything to fix it, or drink the annual koolaid and "trade up"....
No wonder most of the people I know don't visit here often and laugh when the word "spyderlovers" is even mentioned.

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Guys; Don't forget that Santa is watching all of us... :2thumbs:
Who wants some hot chocolate??

 

[Bob Denman]

Me too! :clap: :2thumbs:
It's helped to pay for the farkles... :roflblack:

 

[ahh-cool]

I too believe that there are a lot of problems with the spyder. I also believe that some of the problems all, or most of us are experiencing.
I also believe that Can-Am cut costs on things that they should not have especially since it would have cost them pennies to do it right.
I am no expert but I can tell you that the rear shock is inadequate. I believe they did not use a heavy enough spring. But the most important reason
is because they used a 13" shock with a 2" travel. If the way I understand things is, you have a .5" sag, you only have 1.5" effective range.
That is if the system is working correctly.
I too am changing my springs on the front and rear shocks. I should not have to. For those of you that say I didn't need to do this then, why do most people change to Elka's?

Getting back to the the topic which is the compressor. I removed the compressor from the bike and it rattled when shook. I opened it up and I found the piston had come loose from the motor shaft.
I am not the only one that has had this problem.

 

[spacetiger]

I too believe that there are a lot of problems with the spyder. I also believe that some of the problems all, or most of us are experiencing.
I also believe that Can-Am cut costs on things that they should not have especially since it would have cost them pennies to do it right.
I am no expert but I can tell you that the rear shock is inadequate. I believe they did not use a heavy enough spring. But the most important reason
is because they used a 13" shock with a 2" travel. If the way I understand things is, you have a .5" sag, you only have 1.5" effective range.
That is if the system is working correctly.
I too am changing my springs on the front and rear shocks. I should not have to. For those of you that say I didn't need to do this then, why do most people change to Elka's?

Getting back to the the topic which is the compressor. I removed the compressor from the bike and it rattled when shook. I opened it up and I found the piston had come loose from the motor shaft.
I am not the only one that has had this problem.
View attachment 100117View attachment 100118View attachment 100119View attachment 100120View attachment 100121

Excellent posting, esp with the pics. The wear marks are good things to look for if you are still running the factory setup and the compressor fails. My experience with a proper rated spring to carry the load you should not see the tire rubbing on the inner fender.

You are so lucky you have access to the machine shop to repair the pump.

Keep posting on the progress, especially when you get new spring in. You may need to do a separate post so others can learn and consider this option vs a $900 rear shock swap.

Jerry

 

[spacetiger]

Whatever tiger....lol. I'm not even sure what your point is anymore because the point of discussion was the rear suspension. Somehow you've changed that to the front now??....However, no need to respond to me, because I care even less. I'm ok with you calling me ignorant. Not really the way I would have gone especially when you don't know me, but that's all you.
Best of luck with whatever it is your trying to accomplish.

Drew

i'm sorry the site has changed, I noted it too.

For the record, I never said anyone had a problem. I was just stating the rear spring is too weak to hold up the rear - especially when the air system goes out. This is a true statement. I stated I was going to go with a stiffer spring good enough so I don't need the air system. I suggested had BRP gone in this direction they would have less problems... Then a bunch of weird posts followed. Somehow it turned into I was saying Roger had a problem, I never said he had a problem, I only said how to check if you had a bottoming suspension.

The thread moved to the front suspension because you stated yesterday "There is no way one single setting is going to be more beneficial with a more considerable difference in load". I pointed out that BRP went with no preload front shocks. You can get away with no preload shocks front or rear if you set up your springs right. This is the same for the front or rear. Even though at rest the rear might have more weight with 2 up, when you start riding weight transfer moves the 2 up load to the front suspension. If the front can be set up with no preload adjustment to handle 2 up riding, the rear can be set up to handle 1 or 2 riding.

i did not call or refer to you as ignorant.

Stay on the site, it's the best Can Am site even with all the strange posts.

Jerry

 

[Elembytes]

I had to have mine replaced under warranty as well..........

I took the rear shock out to change the spring. I figured it would be a great time to troubleshoot the ACS system.
I unplugged the compressor and wired it directly to the battery. I can hear the motor spinning.
It sounded like it was spinning without any load. I removed the hose coming from the compressor and I don't feel any air coming out.
My questions are:
how much air should come out? It's a small compressor
Can I rebuild it?
How does it come out? Any tricks?
View attachment 100021

The problem we experienced was apparently water had been inside the fittings and froze splitting the fitting. Pitbull in Springfield relaced the compressor as well as the fitting and it has been just fine since. We couldn't even air up the system manually because of the split fitting air would come back out as soon as you let go of the schrader valve. Anyway, our Compresson through this made a little sound but couldn't compress anymore--but it is fixed now. Thankfully. Riding two up without it working was a pain as headlights were shooting up too high blinding on coming traffic. NOT any more though.