No more ridiculous than that Spiderwoman outfit, John.
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Companies dumping the NRA
- Thread starter Cavman
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Bob Denman
New member
I take it that you have no idea in Hell what that means.
I do!
The pictures used in the NY Times article are comparing a rifle wound, to a wound caused by a handgun! :gaah:
Forget about the differences in muzzle energy, or even terminal ballistics: it's the nature of the projectile, that matters the most.
Military rounds are normally Full metal jacket. This is done for a bunch of reasons:
1. less damage to the rounds during rough transport.
2. better penetration capability
3. better ability to defeat body armor
4. less lethality
:shocked: What did I just say?? :shocked:
That's right: LESS lethality!
It's better to wound your enemy; than it is to kill them. It requires more manpower to move a wounded soldier; than it does to drag out a body.
Full metal jacket bullets will usually just pass right through a target: leaving a caliber-sized hole (Assuming that it only passes through soft tissue.
Modern expanding sporting rounds will "mushroom" to approximately double their unfired diameter, and expend all of their terminal energy into the target.
Why?
Because as a hunter: you want the game animal down... NOW!! A quick and humane kill requires far more damage from the projectile.
Hollow-point rounds are specifically forbidden in military conflicts: they cause too much damage.
In a home defense situation: you would want even LESS penetration. They make frangible rounds like "Mag-Safes"; that are specifically designed to break apart inside the target. It reduces the chances of shooting through a wall, and injuring someone in another room.
It's all about having the right round for the right job! nojoke
The NRA is touting the mental health issue because; a) it shifts the responsibility away from them to yet another unaccountable bogeyman, b) they will never be made to pay for the societal cost of their obstinance or any mental health program that gets adopted anyway and c) they know their affected members will continue to pay $35 a year even when they have been 'sold out' as sacrificial lambs.
Bob Denman
New member
Are you REALLY going to try insulting her Avatar? :banghead:
You've never mentioned ANY of mine: now I'm pissed! :gaah:
By the way: I kind of LIKE it... :clap:
Holly
New member
Can't dispute the 100% accurate facts John. Unfortunately I'm guessing you might need a Kleenex ready before you read this ?
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/quality-of-life
BTW. California isn't even in the top three for economics. Don't worry, this education I'm giving you today is free. :thumbup:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/economy
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Are you REALLY going to try insulting her Avatar? :banghead: You've never mentioned ANY of mine: now I'm pissed! :gaah:
By the way: I kind of LIKE it... :clap:
Okay, well you're going to like this; your current NRA life member avatar is the only one that I've kinda liked. I mean, it's honestly representative of who you are, right? :clap:
I don't know what to make of the various space creatures, aliens, sci-fi characters and other bad-asses with whips you've had in the past.
hyea:I'd like proof you're actually married and your wife doesn't live in an underground bunker somewhere....
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Bob Denman
New member
If you could read my mind...
...It would remind you of a very strange comic book!:roflblack:
...It would remind you of a very strange comic book!:roflblack:
Ew ew ew - wow - you've solved the problem.
It is "one political party" that's to blame for all ills ...
Easy!
Get rid of that party, have a dictatorship (you can camouflage it as a democracy if you like), have your leader for life - oh he's already thought of this, label anybody who disagrees with anything with a label - any label will do, minimise any rational debate on any issue, bombard the populace with so much information that nobody can tell the wood from the trees, encourage name-calling and simplistic use of pseudo facts, and label any alternative views as Fake Facts (a great oxymoron - no, I'm not calling you names...), have your leaders generally stay insular with a nation-centric view of the world and continue to take this view to international actions, continue to deal with societal strain, poverty and inequitable division of scarce resources from emotional rather than rational debate, and above all don't tell the populace that they live in a capitalocracy, not a democracy... There ya go... Release the hounds...
RinconRyder
New member
I live with three women and have never spent a night on my couch.
RinconRyder
New member
If I could read your mind......it would bore me to sleep.
BoilerAnimal
New member
Do you think I have a reading comprehension problem? The point of the article was to point out the extreme severity of damage that is inflicted by high powered weapons!
A quote from the article by
Dr. Martin Schreiber, Oregon Health & Science University.
He was an Army reservist who served in Iraq in 2005 and in Afghanistan in 2010 and 2014.
What makes injuries from these rifles so deadly, he said, is that the bullets travel so fast. Those from an M16 or AR-15 can depart the muzzle at a velocity of more than 3,000 feet per second, while bullets from many common handguns move at less than half or a third that speed. The result: “The energy imparted to a human body by a high velocity weapon is exponentially greater” than that from a handgun.
“You will see multiple organs shattered. The exit wounds can be a foot wide.”
“I’ve seen people with entire quadrants of their abdomens destroyed.”
Dr. Jeffrey Kerby, the University of Alabama at Birmingham.
He was formerly an Air Force surgeon.
Dr. Kerby will never forget the first victim of a high velocity bullet wound he treated when he was serving in the Southern Philippines 16 years ago. The soldier had been shot in the outer thigh. His first thought was that the wound did not look so bad. There was just a tiny hole where the bullet went in. Then he looked where the bullet had exited. The man’s inner thigh, he said, “was completely blown out.”
Later he came to expect the telltale pattern. “You will typically see a small penetrating wound. Then you roll the patient over and you see a huge exit wound.”
The high energy bullet creates a blast wave around the bullet. And the yaw can contribute to the larger exit wound. Striking bone can also cause bone fragments that radiate outward, cutting tissue in each fragment’s path.
“Then the bullet starts tumbling, causing more and more destruction.” Even a bullet that misses bone can result in surprising damage; as the blast wave travels through the body, it pushes tissues and organs aside in a temporary cavity larger than the bullet itself. They bounce back once the bullet passes. Organs are damaged, blood vessels rip and many victims bleed to death before they reach a hospital. Those who survive long enough are whisked to operating rooms, but often the injuries cannot be repaired.
“If they are shot in the torso, there often is not a whole lot we can do,” he said.
With a handgun, the bullets mostly damage tissues and organs in their direct path. Eventually, the bullets may be slowed and stopped by the body. Emergency surgery often can save handgun victims.
The only high powered rifle I ever owned was a bolt action .243 Winchester Model 670. I used it to shoot coyotes and I usually used 100 grain bullets and sometimes 80 grain bullets. It had a very flat trajectory, especially with the 80 grain bullets. Either bullet would do an unbelievable number on a coyote. I never felt the need to have a semi-auto gun for hunting. One thing that a bolt action will do is to make you keenly aware of getting your best shot. If you missed, it wasn't often you got a second chance nearly as good as the first. To me, that is where the "sport" comes in for hunting. Hunters now have camo that is nearly perfect, spotting scopes, binoculars and range finders that further tip the scales in the hunters advantage. The hunters advantage grows greater and greater as technology advances. That also translates to the murderers advantage as well.
A quote from the article by
Dr. Martin Schreiber, Oregon Health & Science University.
He was an Army reservist who served in Iraq in 2005 and in Afghanistan in 2010 and 2014.
What makes injuries from these rifles so deadly, he said, is that the bullets travel so fast. Those from an M16 or AR-15 can depart the muzzle at a velocity of more than 3,000 feet per second, while bullets from many common handguns move at less than half or a third that speed. The result: “The energy imparted to a human body by a high velocity weapon is exponentially greater” than that from a handgun.
“You will see multiple organs shattered. The exit wounds can be a foot wide.”
“I’ve seen people with entire quadrants of their abdomens destroyed.”
Dr. Jeffrey Kerby, the University of Alabama at Birmingham.
He was formerly an Air Force surgeon.
Dr. Kerby will never forget the first victim of a high velocity bullet wound he treated when he was serving in the Southern Philippines 16 years ago. The soldier had been shot in the outer thigh. His first thought was that the wound did not look so bad. There was just a tiny hole where the bullet went in. Then he looked where the bullet had exited. The man’s inner thigh, he said, “was completely blown out.”
Later he came to expect the telltale pattern. “You will typically see a small penetrating wound. Then you roll the patient over and you see a huge exit wound.”
The high energy bullet creates a blast wave around the bullet. And the yaw can contribute to the larger exit wound. Striking bone can also cause bone fragments that radiate outward, cutting tissue in each fragment’s path.
“Then the bullet starts tumbling, causing more and more destruction.” Even a bullet that misses bone can result in surprising damage; as the blast wave travels through the body, it pushes tissues and organs aside in a temporary cavity larger than the bullet itself. They bounce back once the bullet passes. Organs are damaged, blood vessels rip and many victims bleed to death before they reach a hospital. Those who survive long enough are whisked to operating rooms, but often the injuries cannot be repaired.
“If they are shot in the torso, there often is not a whole lot we can do,” he said.
With a handgun, the bullets mostly damage tissues and organs in their direct path. Eventually, the bullets may be slowed and stopped by the body. Emergency surgery often can save handgun victims.
The only high powered rifle I ever owned was a bolt action .243 Winchester Model 670. I used it to shoot coyotes and I usually used 100 grain bullets and sometimes 80 grain bullets. It had a very flat trajectory, especially with the 80 grain bullets. Either bullet would do an unbelievable number on a coyote. I never felt the need to have a semi-auto gun for hunting. One thing that a bolt action will do is to make you keenly aware of getting your best shot. If you missed, it wasn't often you got a second chance nearly as good as the first. To me, that is where the "sport" comes in for hunting. Hunters now have camo that is nearly perfect, spotting scopes, binoculars and range finders that further tip the scales in the hunters advantage. The hunters advantage grows greater and greater as technology advances. That also translates to the murderers advantage as well.
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johnsimion
New member
Well, my, my, aren't we arrogant. School me? Maybe you should read your own stuff before you start teaching. You said they were "VOTED" as last in quality of life. UNTRUE. One might even say that was a LIE. They were not "voted" at all. They were "selected" by a panel of USN&WR editors. That means the SUBJECTIVE opinion of a handful of people. BFD. Their opinion and fifty cents won't buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, honey. Actual home prices and population count are real, objective numbers and they show where people choose to live. Here's a hint, if people don't want to live somewhere, they don't drive the prices of houses sky-high, now do they? What do you say about real numbers, cupcake?
Also, California was NOT "voted" as #4 in economics, either, again it was selected by USN&WR editors and that rating was based on a number of factors. Put all those factors together and the actual rank of California Gross Domestic Product is #1. Fifth largest economy IN THE WORLD, ranking just ahead of the entire country of France. That's not some editor putting together some BS rankings. That's a real statistic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_between_U.S._states_and_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
Like I said, you twist "facts" around to suit your politics. And you know what, I'm not from California, I don't live there, never have lived there, but I find it to be a pretty darned nice place - just too darned expensive for me to live there, you know, with all those people competing to buy houses in the worst state in America, lol.
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BoilerAnimal
New member
By the way Bob, instead of attacking an article (and me) that was describing the damage inflicted by high powered rifles versus hand guns, what do you say to some sort of psychological testing and beefed up background checks as a requirement of gun ownership?
r1100rider
New member
even though not 1 single republican voted for the ACA
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
Is that for yourself only, or you and wife?
In either case it's steep, steeper than what it should be, IMO.
Bob Denman
New member
That's a very fair question: but whose yardstick will you be using, in order to measure emotional stability and mental fitness for ownership of firearms? :dontknow:
I'm in favor of things changing: I just want them changed in a manner that will actually be effective! nojoke
Oh,,, The .243 is a pretty good mid-sized game animal cartridge. But if you were using 100 gr. slugs: you were actually using a round designed for deer. The 80 (or even 75 gr. ones) would have been more effective.
(Hunted deer for years with a .240 Weatherby; using 105 gr. handloads. Worked like magic!)
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