COLUMBINE STUDENT'S FATHER 12 YEARS LATER !!

[wyliec]

Well Bob,

If you looked at the link I sent, you were 100% correct. I did have a chance to look at it closely; unbelievable.

 

[Bob Denman]

I wouldn't fib to you; not over something like this anyway!

 

[Knarfoh]

Would be nice if people actually took the time to research these things. The Internet is a wonderful thing, but very often it is used to mislead people. What makes it worse, is when the statements made seem so plausible. What makes me laugh is that everyone is commenting on something that never happened the way it was described in the original post that started this thread. I guess with the latest tragedy, it was time to brush off an old story and rehash it like it happened just now.

No matter how you feel about this subject, hopefully the original poster will apologize for stating something that simply is not true.

Unfortunately, none of you are able to read my comments today because the world ended yesterday according to the Mayan calendar. That was on the Internet also, so it must be true.

It is never helpful when someone takes a serious subject and wraps it with lies in order to make a point.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/scott.asp

 

[Cruzr Joe]

This is an age old, worn out argument. No one but the truly paranoid believes that the 2nd Amendment is ever going to be repealed and that it is even remotely possible to confiscate the millions of guns already in existence in the US. The sole purpose of this and other irrational arguments like it is to evoke emotion rather than sense. Right now we need to think clearly, not emotionally. It's clear that we need to come together to find a way to make gun ownership safer, especially for our children. We've done this with many other dangerous things, why not guns? It's not going to be easy but it can be done if all sides compromise and work together for the benefit of us all.

Chicago has probably the most gun control regulations in America, more people are killed with guns in Chicago than any other city in America, just my two cents worth.

Cruzr Joe

Sent by morse code from a hidden bunker

 

[pro10is]

Chicago has probably the most gun control regulations in America, more people are killed with guns in Chicago than any other city in America, just my two cents worth.

Cruzr Joe

My four cents worth:

Harvard University Injury Control Research Center Firearms Research (excerpts)

Homicide

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review).

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and homicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 2004; 9:417-40.


2. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.

We analyzed the relationship between homicide and gun availability using data from 26 developed countries from the early 1990s. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and homicide rates across 26 high income countries. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 49:985-88.


3. Across states, more guns = more homicide

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and homicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997).

After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and homicide rates across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. American Journal of Public Health. 2002: 92:1988-1993.


4. Across states, more guns = more homicide (2)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups, after accounting for rates of aggravated assault, robbery, unemployment, urbanization, alcohol consumption, and resource deprivation (e.g., poverty). There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm homicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003. Social Science and Medicine. 2007; 64:656-64.

Suicide

1-2. Gun availability is a risk factor for suicide (literature reviews).

We performed reviews of the academic literature on the effects of gun availability on suicide rates. The preponderance of current evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for youth suicide in the United States. The evidence that gun availability increases the suicide rates of adults is credible, but is currently less compelling. Most of the disaggregate findings of particular studies (e.g. handguns are more of a risk factor than long guns, guns stored unlocked pose a greater risk than guns stored locked) are suggestive but not yet well established.

Miller, Matthew; Hemenway, David. The relationship between firearms and suicide: A review of the literature. Aggression and Violent Behavior: A Review Journal. 1999; 4:59-75.

Miller, Matthew; Hemenway, David. Gun prevalence and the risk of suicide: A review. Harvard Health Policy Review. 2001; 2:29-37.


3. Across states, more guns = more suicide (cross sectional analyses)

Using a validated proxy for firearm ownership rates, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and suicide across 50 states over a ten year period (1988-1997). After controlling for poverty and urbanization, for every age group, across the United States, people in states with many guns have elevated rates of suicide, particularly firearm suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership levels and suicide across U.S. regions and states, 1988-1997. Epidemiology. 2002; 13:517-524.


4. Across states, more guns = more suicide (2) (cross sectional analyses)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and suicide across states, 1999-2001. States with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm suicide and overall suicide. This relationship held for both genders and all age groups. It remained true after accounting for poverty, urbanization and unemployment. There was no association between gun prevalence and non-firearm suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Lippmann, Steven; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Household firearm ownership and rates of suicide across U.S. states. Journal of Trauma. 2007; 62:1029-35.


5. Across states, more guns = more suicides (time series analysis)

Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and suicide over time, 1981-2001. Changes in the levels of household firearm gun ownership was significantly associated with changes in both firearm suicide and overall suicide, for men, women and children, even after controlling for region, unemployment, alcohol consumption and poverty. There was no relationship between changes in gun ownership and changes in non-firearm suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hepburn, Lisa; Hemenway, David; Lippman, Steven. “The association between changes in household firearm ownership and rates of suicide in the United States, 1981-2002.” Injury Prevention. 2006; 12:178-82.


6. Across states, more guns = more suicide (Northeast)

We analyzed data on suicide and suicide attempts for states in the Northeast. Even after controlling for rates of attempted suicide, states with more guns had higher rates of suicide.

Miller, Matthew; Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah. Firearms and suicide in the Northeast. Journal of Trauma. 2004; 57:626-632.


7. Across U.S. regions, more guns = more suicide (cross sectional analysis)

We analyzed the relationship of gun availability and suicide among differing age groups across the 9 US regions. After controlling for divorce, education, unemployment, poverty and urbanization, the statistically significant relationship holds for 15 to 24 year olds and 45 to 84 year olds, but not for 25 to 44 year olds.

Birckmayer, Johanna; Hemenway, David. Suicide and gun prevalence: Are youth disproportionately affected? Suicide and Life Threatening Behavior. 2001; 31:303-310.

Children

1. Across states, more guns = more violent deaths to children

We analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and unintentional gun death, homicide and suicide for 5-14 year olds across the 50 states over a ten year period. Children in states with many guns have elevated rates of unintentional gun deaths, suicide and homicide. The state rates of non-firearm suicide and non-firearm homicide among children are not related to firearm availability.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deb; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and unintentional firearm deaths, suicide, and homicide among 5-14 Year Olds. Journal of Trauma. 2002; 52:267-75.


2. Child firearm suicide appears more impulsive than suicide by other means (Arizona).

We analyzed data from the Arizona Childhood Fatality Review Team comparing youth gun suicide with suicide by other means. Children who use a firearm to commit suicide have fewer identifiable risk factors for suicide, such as expressing suicidal thoughts. Gun suicides appear more impulsive and spontaneous than suicide by other means.

Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew; Barber, Catherine; Schackner, Robert. Youth suicide: Insights from 5 years of Arizona child review team data. Suicide and Life Threatening Behavior. 2004; 34:36-43.

Women

1. Across states, more guns = more female violent deaths

We analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and unintentional gun death, homicide and suicide for women across the 50 states over a ten year period. Women in states with many guns have elevated rates of unintentional gun deaths, suicides and homicide, particularly firearm suicides and firearm homicides.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Firearm availability and unintentional firearm deaths, suicide, and homicide among women. Journal of Urban Health. 2002; 79:26-38.


2. Across high income countries more guns = more female homicide deaths.

We analyzed the relationship between gun availability and homicides of women with data from 25 high income countries. Across developed nations, where gun are more available, there are more homicides of women. The United States has the most firearms and U.S. women have far more likely to be homicide victims than women in other developed countries.

Hemenway, David; Shinoda-Tagawa, Tomoko; Miller, Matthew. Firearm availability and female homicide victimization rates across 25 populous high-income countries. Journal of the American Medical Women's Association. 2002; 57:100-04.

Gun Ownership

1. Almost half of gun owners own four or more guns.

We analyzed a national representative household telephone survey of over 2750 adults conducted in 2004. We found that 38% of households (45% of men and 11% of women) reported owning at least one firearm. Almost half (48%) of gun owners report owning four or more guns with a few possessing large numbers of guns; 64% of gun owners own at least one handgun. Gun ownership remains widespread, but a smaller percentage of gun owners possess an increasing percentage of the gun stock.

Hepburn, Lisa; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. The US gun stock: Results from the 2004 national firearms survey. Injury Prevention. 2007 13:15-19.


2. Owners of semi-automatic guns are more likely to binge drink than other gun owners.

We analyzed data from a national random digit dial telephone survey. Owners of semi-automatic weapons are more likely than other gun owners to be male, own a gun for protection, and report binge drinking.

Hemenway, David; Richardson, Elizabeth. Characteristics of automatic or semi-automatic firearm ownership. American Journal of Public Health. 1997; 87:286-88.

3-4. Gun ownership creates external psychic costs.
We analyzed whether perceptions of safety might be affected if more people in a community acquired firearms, using data from a national random-digit-dial survey of adults conducted under the auspices of HICRC. By a margin of more than 3 to 1, Americans would feel less safe, not safer, as others in their community acquire guns. Among women, but not among men, those who have been threatened with a gun are particularly likely to feel less safe.

Hemenway, David; Solnick, Sara J; Azrael, Deborah R. Firearms and community feelings of safety. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1995; 86:121-132.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Community firearms and community fear. Epidemiology. 2000; 11:709-714.

Road Rage

1. Motorists with guns are more likely to act aggressively (Arizona)

Using data from a telephone survey in Arizona, we examined the relationship between road rage and gun carrying in motor vehicles. We found that self-reported hostile actions (e.g. obscene gestures, cursing or shouting, aggressively tailgating) were more common among men, young adults, and individuals who carried a firearm in their car.

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David; Solop, Frederic I. Road rage in Arizona: Armed and dangerous? Accident Analysis and Prevention. 2002; 34:807-814.


2. Motorists with guns are more likely to engage in types of road rage (USA)

Over 2,400 licensed drivers responded to questions about their own aggressive driving in a 2004 national random digit dial survey. We found that 17% of respondents admitted to making obscene or rude gestures in the past year, and another 9% admitted to aggressively following too closely. Males, young adults, binge drinkers, those ever arrested for a non-traffic violation, and motorists who had been in a vehicle in which there was a gun, were more likely to engage in such forms of road rage.

Hemenway, David; Vriniotis, Mary; Miller, Matthew. Is an armed society a polite society? Guns and road rage. Accident Analysis and Prevention. 2006; 38:687-95.

Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use

1-3 Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense

We use epidemiological theory to explain why the "false positive" problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the incidence of rare diseases or rare phenomena such as self-defense gun use. We then try to validate the claims of many millions of annual self-defense uses against available evidence. We find that the claim of many millions of annual self-defense gun uses by American citizens is invalid.

Hemenway, David. Survey research and self-defense gun use: An explanation of extreme overestimates. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology. 1997; 87:1430-1445.

Hemenway, David. The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun uses: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events. Chance (American Statistical Association). 1997; 10:6-10.

Cook, Philip J; Ludwig, Jens; Hemenway, David. The gun debate's new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year? Journal of Policy Analysis and Management. 1997; 16:463-469.

4. Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments and are both socially undesirable and illegal

We analyzed data from two national random-digit-dial surveys conducted under the auspices of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. Criminal court judges who read the self-reported accounts of the purported self-defense gun use rated a majority as being illegal, even assuming that the respondent had a permit to own and to carry a gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly from his own perspective.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah. Gun use in the United States: Results from two national surveys. Injury Prevention. 2000; 6:263-267.

5. Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense.

Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Center, we examined the extent and nature of offensive gun use. We found that firearms are used far more often to frighten and intimidate than they are used in self-defense. All reported cases of criminal gun use, as well as many of the so-called self-defense gun uses, appear to be socially undesirable.

Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah. The relative frequency of offensive and defensive gun use: Results of a national survey. Violence and Victims. 2000; 15:257-272.

6. Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime.

Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, we investigated how and when guns are used in the home. We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime; other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns.

Publication: Azrael, Deborah R; Hemenway, David. In the safety of your own home: Results from a national survey of gun use at home. Social Science and Medicine. 2000; 50:285-91.

7. Adolescents are far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use one in self-defense.

We analyzed data from a telephone survey of 5,800 California adolescents aged 12-17, which asked questions about gun threats against, and self-defense gun use by these young people. We found that these young people were far more likely to be threatened with a gun than to use a gun in self-defense, and most of the reported self-defense gun uses were hostile interactions between armed adolescents. Males, smokers, binge drinkers, those who threatened others and whose parents were less likely to know their whereabouts were more likely both to be threatened with a gun and to use a gun in self-defense.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Gun threats against and self-defense gun use by California adolescents. Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine. 2004; 158:395-400.


8. Criminals who are shot are typically the victims of crime

Using data from a survey of detainees in a Washington D.C. jail, we worked with a prison physician to investigate the circumstances of gunshot wounds to these criminals.
We found that one in four of these detainees had been wounded, in events that appear unrelated to their incarceration. Most were shot when they were victims of robberies, assaults and crossfires. Virtually none report being wounded by a "law-abiding citizen."

May, John P; Hemenway, David. Oen, Roger; Pitts, Khalid R. When criminals are shot: A survey of Washington DC jail detainees. Medscape General Medicine. 2000; June 28. www.medscape.com


9-10. Few criminals are shot by decent law abiding citizens

Using data from surveys of detainees in six jails from around the nation, we worked with a prison physician to determine whether criminals seek hospital medical care when they are shot. Criminals almost always go to the hospital when they are shot. To believe fully the claims of millions of self-defense gun uses each year would mean believing that decent law-abiding citizens shot hundreds of thousands of criminals. But the data from emergency departments belie this claim, unless hundreds of thousands of wounded criminals are afraid to seek medical care. But virtually all criminals who have been shot went to the hospital, and can describe in detail what happened there.

May, John P; Hemenway, David. Oen, Roger; Pitts, Khalid R. Medical Care Solicitation by Criminals with Gunshot Wound Injuries: A Survey of Washington DC Jail Detainees. Journal of Trauma. 2000; 48:130-132.

May, John P; Hemenway, David. Do Criminals Go to the Hospital When They are Shot? Injury Prevention 2002: 8:236-238.

Batterers

1. Batterers’ use guns in a variety of ways to intimidate their victims

We analyzed survey data collected from over 8,000 males enrolled in a certified batterer intervention program in Massachusetts, 1999-2003. Recent gun owners were 8 times more likely to have threatened their partners with a gun than non-gun owners. Four main types of gun threat against partners were (a) threatening to shoot then, (b) threatening to shoot a pet or person the victim cares about, (c) cleaning, holding or loading a gun during an argument, and (d) shooting a gun during an argument.

Rothman, Emily; Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah. Batterers’ use of guns to threaten intimate partners. Journal of the American Medical Women’s Association, 2005; 60:62-68.


2. Batterers with guns are more dangerous than batterers without guns.

We analyzed survey data of over 4,500 men in Massachusetts batterers’ intervention programs. Risk factors for having a gun included having gambling problems, having attempted murder, and having threatened a partner with a firearm.

Rothman, Emily F.; Johnson. Renee M.; Hemenway, David. Gun possession among a sample of Massachusetts batterer program enrollees. Evaluation Review. 2006; 30:283-95.

Gun Carrying

1-2. Adolescents carry guns for protection--against other adolescents carrying guns

We surveyed 7th and 10th graders in inner city schools in Boston and Milwaukee. We found that almost a quarter of 7th grade boys had already carried a gun, illegally. The overwhelming reason for carrying was self-protection. While guns were easily acquired, the large majority of respondents, and even the majority of those who had already carried a gun, wanted to live in a society where it was impossible for teens to get guns.

Hemenway, David; Prothrow-Stith, Deborah, Bergstein, Jack M; Ander, Roseanna; Kennedy, Bruce. Gun carrying among adolescents. Law and Contemporary Problems. 1996; 59:39-53.

Bergstein, Jack M; Hemenway, David; Kennedy, Bruce; Quaday, Sher; Ander, Roseanna. Guns in young hands: A survey of urban teenagers' attitudes and behaviors related to handgun violence. Journal of Trauma. 1996; 41:794-798.

3. Adolescents overestimate peer gun carrying and thus are more likely to carry themselves.

We analyzed data from a random survey conducted in 2008 of over 1700 high school students in Boston. Over 5% of students reported carrying a gun, 9% of boys and 2% of girls. Students substantially overestimated the percentage of their peers who carried guns and the likelihood that a respondent carried a gun was strongly associated with his perception of the level of peer gun carrying.

Hemenway, David; Vriniotis, Mary; Johnson, Rene M; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah. Gun carrying by high school students in Boston, MA: does overestimation of peer gun carrying matter? Journal of Adolescence. 2011; 34:997-1003


4. Students who old in their class are more likely to carry guns illegally
Using data from the Massachusetts Youth Risk Behavior survey, we analyzed risk factors for adolescent gun carrying. We found that a simple objective measure--whether a student is old for their grade--is an important predictor of gun carrying. This fact may help clinicians identify high-risk students and target prevention strategies.

Hayes, D Neil; Hemenway, David. Age-within-school-class and adolescent gun carrying. Pediatrics electronic pages. 1999; 103:e64.

5. Social disorder increases the likelihood of adolescent gun carrying

We analyzed data from over 1800 youth in Chicago examining risk factors for adolescent gun carrying. We found that aspects of the neighborhood (social disorder, safety, collective efficacy) were important predictors of illegal gun carrying by youth.

Molnar, Beth; Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Buka Steven. Neighborhood predictors of concealed firearm carrying among children and adolescents. Archives of Pediatric Adolescent Medicine. 2004; 158:657-64.

6. Selling crack is associated with carrying guns.

We analyzed data from interviews of over 200 young men and women at the Rhode Island Correctional Institution. We found that selling crack was highly associated with gun carrying; using hard drugs was not. Findings provide further evidence of a crack-gun connection.

Kacanek, Deborah; Hemenway, David. Gun carrying and drug selling among youth incarcerated men and women. Journal of Urban Health. 2006; 83:266-74.

7. Increased gun carrying reduces community feeling of safety.
This paper uses data from two national random-digit-dial surveys to examine public attitudes about gun carrying. By a margin of 5 to 1, Americans feel less safe rather than more safe as more people in their community begin to carry guns. By margins of at least 9 to 1, Americans do not believe that regular citizens should be allowed to bring their guns into restaurants, college campuses, sports stadium, bars, hospitals or government buildings.

Hemenway, David; Azrael, Deborah; Miller, Matthew. U.S. national attitudes concerning gun carrying. Injury Prevention. 2001; 7:282-285.

Miscellaneous

1. An armed society is not a trusting society

Working with experts on income inequality, social capital, and mortality, we analyzed the relationship between firearm availability and measures of social trust and civic engagement across US states. We found that states with more guns have lower levels of both mutual trust and civic engagement, after accounting for urbanization, poverty and median household income.

Hemenway, David; Kennedy, Bruce; Kawachi, Ichiro; Putnam, Robert D. Firearm prevalence and social capital. Annals of Epidemiology. 2001; 11:484-490.


2. Less lethal and less dangerous weapons need to be developed for civilians and for the police
We made the case that more research needs to be done to make firearms safer, more effective, and less lethal.

Hemenway, David; Weil, Douglas S. Phasers on stun: the case for less lethal weapons. Journal of Policy Analysis and Management. 1990; 9:94-98.

Hemenway, David; Weil, Douglas S. Less lethal weapons. Op-Ed, Washington Post, May 14, 1990.

Overall

1. The United States has a very high rate of firearm death

Using recent data from the World Health Organization (WHO), this paper provides striking evidence on the size of the U.S. problems of gun homicide, overall homicide, gun suicide, and unintentional gun death compared to other advanced countries—for both genders and every age group.

Richardson, Erin G; Hemenway, David. Homicide, suicide and unintentional firearm fatality: comparing the United States with other high-income countries, 2003. Journal of Trauma, 2011; 70:238-43.


2. The risks of a gun in the home typically far outweigh the benefits

This article summarizes the scientific literature on the health risks and benefits of having a gun in the home for the gun owner and his/her family and concludes that for most contemporary Americans, the health risk of a gun in the home is greater than the benefit

Hemenway, David. Risks and benefits of a gun in the home. American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine 2011; 5:502-511.

Public Opinion

1-2. The public favors most sensible gun policies, policies the U.S. does not have

We analyzed surveys of the American public over time. Household gun ownership levels have been decreasing in the United States since the 1980s. Most adults, and even most gun owners, favor most gun control laws short of bans on gun ownership.

Blendon, Robert J; Young, John T; Hemenway, David. The American public and the gun control debate. JAMA. 1996; 275:1719-22.

Young, John T; Hemenway, David; Blendon, Robert J; Benson, John M. Poll trends on guns. Public Opinion Quarterly. 1996; 60:634-649.


3. NRA members support many regulatory proposals
We analyzed data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey. National Rifle Association (NRA) members are similar to other gun owners in many respects, but they are more likely to own six or more guns. Unlike the NRA leadership, both NRA members and non-member gun owners support waiting periods and mandatory registration of handguns.

Weil, Douglas S; Hemenway David . I am the NRA: an analysis of a national random sample of gun owners. Violence and Victims. 1993; 8:353-65. See also Weil DS, Hemenway D. A response to Kleck (NRA). Violence and Victims. 1993; 8:377-85.

 

[btcherm]

what can I say ?

 

[wyliec]

what can I say ?

I have to be careful here b/c Bob D. said that I can't see. I'm guessing b/c the president's bodyguards have guns you are saying he (the president) speaks out of 'both sides of his mouth'? Really. He's probably had his life threatened on more than one occasion; I'd say he was being prudent.

If I have misconstrued what you were trying to portray, I apologize. Like I said, Bob has said that I can't see.:dontknow:

 

[Bob Denman]

Wylie,
When did I say that? :shocked:
I do find it amusing when I see pics with the President and his Secret Service bodyguards...
Nobody should argue that he isn't important enough to have protection; but aren't ALL of us important?

 

[Trickie Dick]

I don't get it

Pro10is posts some very interesting research and all you can talk about is the President's bodyguards:dontknow:

 

[Bob Denman]

And the source of the study???
Harvard; Happens to sit in a very liberal and very anti-firearm State.

If the source of the "Study" isn't truly unbiased; then the study is completely flawed... The results will only be a contrived manner in which to try and justify whatever result they wanted to report in the first place.
(Sorry!)

 

[pro10is]

what can I say ?

Considering all the people who own guns who would like to see him gone, and what happened to Lincoln, James A. Garfield, William McKinley, JFK, and RFK, not to mention Reagan, and Gabrielle Giffords, what you see here is an incredibly brave man. He is surrounded by armed guards but he is far from safe.

 

[pro10is]

And the source of the study???
Harvard; Happens to sit in a very liberal and very anti-firearm State.

If the source of the "Study" isn't truly unbiased; then the study is completely flawed... The results will only be a contrived manner in which to try and justify whatever result they wanted to report in the first place.
(Sorry!)

So you're saying Harvard University, America's best university, one of the top five institutes of learning in the world, is not a considered a good source for a respectable, unbiased study? Ok, thanks for that valuable information. I was under the impression Harvard University was a decent college, I guess I was wrong. I'm glad my son goes to Cambridge University instead.

But you strongly advocate we should definitely listen to the NRA because of course they're much less biased???

But then, by your own words you just said: "If the source of the "Study" isn't truly unbiased; then the study is completely flawed..." So it would follow that what you are actually saying is that any information the NRA provides is completely flawed???

Now I'm confused. What are you saying Bob???

 

[Bob Denman]

Let's just say that my typing is a bit off today...pps:
Harvard is a pretty decent school; but I'd stand by my statement that they MAY be biased toward a particular end result...