CLUTCH SLIP HELP

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Please keep us in the loop!
Good Luck! :thumbup:

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

And the winner is

The brake fluid is contaminated with dissolved and bits and pieces of o-ring from the slave cylinder in the clutch that has failed. This specific problem has been reported often. Depending on where the pieces of remaining o-ring get caught, the piston will stick and the clutch will not fully engage (slip) or not fully disengage ( engine stalls when you stop). Just the luck of the draw.

Went to the dealer to look at all the pieces of my clutch laid out on the work bench. I am not mechanic but let me see if I can explain this. The o-rings mentioned above were intact and seated but worn down, this somehow had an effect on the pressure in the system required for the clutch to engage and disengage properly.

The clutch hub which I am lead to believe is a moving a part and grabs hold of the plates in the clutch has been grooved and notched by the one of the clutch plates. The teeth on the leading clutch plate are also bent. The friction plates themselves are actually not in bad shape.

The had the disc kit ordered and had arrived, but when they opened it up found the other issues. Parts should be here early next week and they will put it back together.

First concern is they have been selling Spyders since they first came out, and the originals ones were manual and they have not replaced one worn clutch.

My big question, which is a big concern to me, and no one has was able to give me an answer, is why do the o rings fail in the first place, or break down or dissolve, or erode, or whatever it is that happens to them that causes this catastrophic failure. Two bad "O" rings and it looses its integrity. What the heck. It gets all the regular checks, brp lubricants only. Whats to stop it from happening again? I am told it is a very infrequent problem. What makes my bike different from the guy next door that doesnt have any clutch issues.

If you have the answer let please post them here in this thread, thanks.

I like looking around the shop to see whats in there. CB problems on 2014 RT limited, and throttle body and manifold issues on a 2010 RTS.

 

[Bob Denman]

I seem to recall Scotty mentioning that the fluid is actually "eating" them... :yikes: :gaah:
He was involved in a pretty active discussion about this (perhaps two years ago....)
If you can find that thread... :2thumbs:

 

[finless]

There is a service bulletin about the SM5 clutch system and the O-rings. Something to do with the piston alignment.
When I get home later this week I will look it up for you.

Bob

 

[IGETAROUND]

My big question, which is a big concern to me, and no one has was able to give me an answer, is why do the o rings fail in the first place, or break down or dissolve, or erode, or whatever it is that happens to them that causes this catastrophic failure. Two bad "O" rings and it looses its integrity. What the heck. It gets all the regular checks, brp lubricants only. Whats to stop it from happening again? I am told it is a very infrequent problem. What makes my bike different from the guy next door that doesnt have any clutch issues.

If you have the answer let please post them here in this thread, thanks.
Not an answer but if you remember the space shuttle Challenger, I seem to recall O ring problems there also:yikes::yikes::yikes: Bad:joke:

 

[Bob Denman]

Read my post #23...

 

[Myspyder75]

Clutch Issues

My big question, which is a big concern to me, and no one has was able to give me an answer, is why do the o rings fail in the first place, or break down or dissolve, or erode, or whatever it is that happens to them that causes this catastrophic failure. Two bad "O" rings and it looses its integrity. What the heck. It gets all the regular checks, brp lubricants only. Whats to stop it from happening again? I am told it is a very infrequent problem. What makes my bike different from the guy next door that doesnt have any clutch issues.

If you have the answer let please post them here in this thread, thanks.
Not an answer but if you remember the space shuttle Challenger, I seem to recall O ring problems there also:yikes::yikes::yikes: Bad:joke:

"I am having this type of issue as well. Started having clutch engagement issues around 13,500 mikes... Took my spyder in for it's 14,000 mile service, told the service writer about the issue. He told me that the 14,000 mile would 'fix' that issue... Well, about 500 miles after the service, the issue was back... :banghead:... Checked the clutch fluid, resevor was empty... Added DOT 4 break fluid. Within 200 miles, had clutch issues again, checked the fluid and it was/is very dark.... Spyder is in the shop now awaiting http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif"

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked: Sorry to see that you're having troubles; but :welcome: :2thumbs:

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

Think it can't get any worse? Wrong! Everything put back together and they advise not only is the problem not fixed, it is worse. Case file with BRP. Awaiting response. They say it goes through the gears ok but when you crack the throttle in the high gears it still slips but worse now. Wow. Anybody having these problems?


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[Can-Am Poogs]

THANKS FOR THE 2013-5 SERVICE BULETIN

I printed it off last night. Brought it to the dealer at 9:30 am.

Turns out they had done the same. Guess what? They don't have the proper tool mentioned in the bulletin to properly seat and align the clutch when reassembled.

They ordered the tool, and a couple of more parts just in case. So literally it is completely a brand new clutch. Little frustrating this is the first clutch the mechanic has ever done on a Spyder, but everyone has to learn. Bike promised back on Tuesday.

Please don't let me down.

Service manager has been great. The new service writer is ignorant as :cus: . I give her until Christmas and she will get turfed.

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

A guess

"I am having this type of issue as well. Started having clutch engagement issues around 13,500 mikes... Took my spyder in for it's 14,000 mile service, told the service writer about the issue. He told me that the 14,000 mile would 'fix' that issue... Well, about 500 miles after the service, the issue was back... :banghead:... Checked the clutch fluid, resevor was empty... Added DOT 4 break fluid. Within 200 miles, had clutch issues again, checked the fluid and it was/is very dark.... Spyder is in the shop now awaiting http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/images/smilies/shrug.gif"

Sounds like a tear in the diaphram. Could be a little tear that opens up when it gets stretched out.

 

[Bob Denman]

Fingers are staying crossed for you; Good Luck! :thumbup:

 

[Cambello]

Filter Change

Hi Guys, I've been following this thread closely and my RT-s had a couple of slipping issues at the weekend during a run, but I think the issue is it needs an oil change but when ever I try and find the code for a replacement HCM filter I dont seem to be able to find one. The main oil filter I can find with ne problems, can any on help please,ray:

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

Okay guys here is round...I don't know I lost count...

So, I would like to report that the bike is fixed but it is not.

The entire clutch assembly has been replaced, and I mean every single part.

Its been assembled and reassembled numerous times, and I am pretty confident the dealer has got it perfectly done to spec.

The clutch actually slips worse than when I brought it in.

They pressure tested the bottom end and everything is as it should be, actually better than it should be.

So what is next? The top end. Hydraulic clutch lever. They have ordered a clutch master cylinder. It should be here Thursday or Friday. They would like to have the bike done before the weekend.

I hope this fixes the problem!!!

Anybody ever have a problem like this?

Anybody ever have a problem that couldn't be fixed? What do they do next?

I will post an update on Friday?

The bike has been in the shop for just about 1 month..three weeks for sure...

 

[billybovine]

Hi Guys, I've been following this thread closely and my RT-s had a couple of slipping issues at the weekend during a run, but I think the issue is it needs an oil change but when ever I try and find the code for a replacement HCM filter I dont seem to be able to find one. The main oil filter I can find with ne problems, can any on help please,ray:

Since you did not share I am guessing you have a SE. You should have started your own thread. I think you would have had a quicker response. This thread will have little to do with your slipping issue since it works differently. The OP has a SM.
Filter part number is 420256454 Oil Filter $8.99 CAD Of course only needed for a SE only.
A dirty HCM filter does not cause the clutch to slip. In extreme cases maybe not allow the clutch to disengage for a gear shift, maybe, but not slip.

 

[billybovine]

So, I would like to report that the bike is fixed but it is not.

The entire clutch assembly has been replaced, and I mean every single part.

Its been assembled and reassembled numerous times, and I am pretty confident the dealer has got it perfectly done to spec.

The clutch actually slips worse than when I brought it in.

They pressure tested the bottom end and everything is as it should be, actually better than it should be.

So what is next? The top end. Hydraulic clutch lever. They have ordered a clutch master cylinder. It should be here Thursday or Friday. They would like to have the bike done before the weekend.

I hope this fixes the problem!!!

Anybody ever have a problem like this?

Anybody ever have a problem that couldn't be fixed? What do they do next?

I will post an update on Friday?

The bike has been in the shop for just about 1 month..three weeks for sure...

The techs are missing something. I hope the master cylinder fixes it for you.

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

THE SOLUTION

I have my bike up for sale, because the aggravation this situation has caused me is not worth the price of ownership.

However, there are a lot of good people on this website, and my type of Spyder breakdown is going to happen again to someone else.

There is a solenoid switch mounted to the front of the motor, with a air hose that attaches to the side of the clutch.

The solenoid malfunctioned and the switch stuck in a position which caused the clutch to burnout. It happens fast when this happens. So much so that the two clutch packs the dealer installed before they repaired the solenoid switch showed signs of damage and wear. Replacing the clutch pack does not remedy the problem. The clutch actually slips worse with a new clutch pack installed.

Also, even though this switch is a electrical component, it does not through a diagnostic code.

Good luck, I hope this never happens to any of you, but if it does save yourself one month of aggravation and go straight to the solenoid switch.

 

[billybovine]

Given the condition of your clutch fluid, this certainly could be the problem. Another possibility which your dealer can check is the operation of the clutch solenoid valve and check valve. Together they provide a vacuum assist in disengaging the clutch to make it easier to pull the lever; the exact amount of assist is computer controlled and disappears totally above 4,000 rpm. However, if the solenoid is malfunctioning or the check valve is not allowing atmospheric pressure back into the diaphragm when you release the lever, you could be getting some vacuum assist pulling on the diaphragm all the time, causing your clutch to slip. Just as though you were lightly pulling on the clutch lever all the time.

gypsy_100 looks like you got this one right.

 

[billybovine]

I have my bike up for sale, because the aggravation this situation has caused me is not worth the price of ownership.

However, there are a lot of good people on this website, and my type of Spyder breakdown is going to happen again to someone else.

There is a solenoid switch mounted to the front of the motor, with a air hose that attaches to the side of the clutch.

The solenoid malfunctioned and the switch stuck in a position which caused the clutch to burnout. It happens fast when this happens. So much so that the two clutch packs the dealer installed before they repaired the solenoid switch showed signs of damage and wear. Replacing the clutch pack does not remedy the problem. The clutch actually slips worse with a new clutch pack installed.

Also, even though this switch is a electrical component, it does not through a diagnostic code.

Good luck, I hope this never happens to any of you, but if it does save yourself one month of aggravation and go straight to the solenoid switch.

Thanks for letting us know how this turned out. I am sorry you are making the choice to sell. I don't understand it but respect it. For me, stuff with moving parts break and I don't find it a surprise.

 

[Can-Am Poogs]

Thanks for letting us know how this turned out. I am sorry you are making the choice to sell. I don't understand it but respect it. For me, stuff with moving parts break and I don't find it a surprise.

I know what you are saying. The riding season is short here. May to mid October. I love to ride. I don't want a vehicle in the shop for six weeks. If I did I would own a Harley. So reliability is an issue with me. I must compliment when I picked up my Spyder today it runs amazing. Actually better than when I bought it.

I bought the Spyder so my wife would come out with because she would not get on the back of a two wheeler. Then her girl friend learned to ride motorcycle a year ago and this year my wife learned to ride two wheeler and has her own learning bike. Why wife likes the Spyder too, but I am more inclined to go to a big touring two wheel. My wife will likely want to go to a bagger or a cruiser.

Ultimately we want the flexibility to ride with our two wheel friends. This latest frustration with the Spyder makes it as good a time as any. I've never had any vehicle, snowmobile, quad, boat, or motorcycle break down for 6 weeks. Can Am is the only non Japanese toy I have ever owned. Kawasaki motorcycles and sleds, Honda quads, and yamaha marine.


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