Cat delete Pipe and back pressure

[Dray]

Is it necessary to install the monster baffle when installing
the cat delete pipe? Seems to me that the stock muffler would
create enough back pressure. Am I missing something here and
while I am at it is the cat a full up legal cat?

Thanks in advance!!

Dray:yes:

 

[MikeP]

There is a noticeable difference between just the cat removal n stock muffler and adding the baffle.. I know I'm not alone in my thoughts...

 

[Pampurrs]

I have the Cat Bypass on my RT connected to the stock muffler without a baffle and have adequate backpressure. It runs great. I think the issue of backpressure only arrises when you remove the stock muffler and replace it with a third party one. However, there are others more knowledgeable than me about such things who will chime in.

Pam

 

[MikeP]

I have the Cat Bypass on my RT connected to the stock muffler without a baffle and have adequate backpressure. It runs great. I think the issue of backpressure only arrises when you remove the stock muffler and replace it with a third party one. However, there are others more knowledgeable than me about such things who will chime in.

Pam

I know it's crazy for me to assume that the op is talking about an F3 not an RT cause this is the F3 forum... For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would post a reply pertaining to something they don't own... BTW adequate back pressure and optimal are two different things... Kinda like RT's n F3's ��

 

[Pampurrs]

I know it's crazy for me to assume that the op is talking about an F3 not an RT cause this is the F3 forum... For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would post a reply pertaining to something the don't own... BTW adequate back pressure and optimal are two different things... Kinda like RT's n F3's

Well, being that we have the same 1330 engine I just thought I'd point out that it worked fine for me, and I did point out that I have an RT. It's up to the OP to make that distinction, not someone in the studio audience.

Pam

 

[Pampurrs]

Now I'm curious..... how does one measure whether they have "adequate" back pressure or "optimal" back pressure?

Pam

 

[Peter Aawen]

?.....the op is talking about an F3 not an RT cause this is the F3 forum......

:hun: since the RT's & the F3's run the same 1330 engine, the part no's for the cat converters are identical, & almost all of the exhaust system no's seem to be the same or interchangeable, so why wouldn't RT car & exhaust experience apply here??

 

[MikeP]

1. Lamont doesn't sell snake oil
2. Adequate back pressure is what you have without it and optimal is what you have with it..
3. There will be more to chime in on this tomorrow but it's late..
4. Thinking and knowing are opposites and you think your back pressure is fine but ride one with the baffle installed n you'll come over to the knowing team..
5. I think the op basically asked if anyone did the mod n did it make a difference and if ONE didn't do the mod / that would exclude them from participating in a knowledgeable conversation without adding any value...
You made a perfect comment that there are others that know more about it than you which made your previous comments a head scratcher to say the least..

 

[Pampurrs]

1. Lamont doesn't sell snake oil
2. Adequate back pressure is what you have without it and optimal is what you have with it..
3. There will be more to chime in on this tomorrow but it's late..
4. Thinking and knowing are opposites and you think your back pressure is fine but ride one with the baffle installed n you'll come over to the knowing team..
5. I think the op basically asked if anyone did the mod n did it make a difference and if ONE didn't do the mod / that would exclude them from participating in a knowledgeable conversation without adding any value...
You made a perfect comment that there are others that know more about it than you which made your previous comments a head scratcher to say the least..

Joe (CptJam) from Squared Away installed my Cat bypass and assured me that I wouldn't need a baffle and the back pressure would be fine. I take my advice from people like him, who KNOW what they're talking about, and not from the passel of posers (notice I said posers, not posters) on this forum who PRETEND they know what they're talking about.

People gain insight by asking questions or conveying experiences, while simultaneously disclosing their level of knowledge and expertise, not by pretending they know it all. In my response to the OP I simply set forth my personal experience with the Cat bypass, with a caveat that others know much more about the topic than I do.

Mike, you need to learn from this. Don't attack people just because they contribute their own experience; it serves no purpose other than making yourself look foolish.

Pam

 

[MikeP]

Joe (CptJam) from Squared Away installed my Cat bypass and assured me that I wouldn't need a baffle and the back pressure would be fine. I take my advice from people like him, who KNOW what they're talking about, and not from the passel of posers (notice I said posers, not posters) on this forum who PRETEND they know what they're talking about.

People gain insight by asking questions or conveying experiences, while simultaneously disclosing their level of knowledge and expertise, not by pretending they know it all. In my response to the OP I simply set forth my personal experience with the Cat bypass, with a caveat that others know much more about the topic than I do.

Mike, you need to learn from this. Don't attack people just because they contribute their own experience; it serves no purpose other than making yourself look foolish.

Pam

Not attacking nor name calling nor foolish,,just stating the obvious.. I have no doubt what you are told is correct / You don't need the baffle but does it run better with it ??? absolutely!! and the only way you would KNOW the difference would be to ride without it and then with it..

I apologize if I have an opinion based on knowing both sides of the question instead of guessing.. And again,, just fine maybe fine for you but I prefer optimal... I'm new to Spyders 2013 and get my knowledge from Lamont / Len & Wit a Pittbull Powersports,,, hardly guessers or posers in their field.. They say the baffle works and I've zero doubt that Lamont would sell them otherwise...

 

[kngfsh27]

The baffle helps maintain mid range power of the engine. Without it, as one increases the rpms of their engine, they can incur the feeling of the power going flat. Someone will have a better explanation. It all comes down to riding style. If you ride like you're driving a Lincoln Town Car, you will more than likely never miss it. If you ride like you're driving a Corvette, you will probably wish you had it.

 

[MikeP]

Yes!!! Now we have some good comments minus the misinformed insults.. For me personally the midrange grunt I got back from the baffle was a benefit because that's primarily where my F3 lives most of the time.. I felt that as much of a gain that the cat bypass provided,,, I could feel the torque falling off.. Again I'm not alone in this assessment...

I started ryding Spyders in 2013 due to my wife's car accident and not wanting a garage full of motorcycles anymore... I've raced dirt bikes,, three wheelers, four wheelers and sport bikes..
I have training in performance off road riding as well as high performance race track / sport bike training.. I've been from one end of this country side to side / top to bottom both on road an off.. I've built custom show winning motorcycles that competed with the best in the business all over this country and been in magazines and on tv.. When I sold all my motorcycles in 2013 I had logged well north of 800,000 mi on two wheels,, so I've never had a membership in the poser club..

Admittedly I'm very new this Spyder thing and rely heavily on people that have a known reputation for giving expert advice and products that provide value and enhance the Spyder riding experience.. Having dealt with Lamont and Len from Pittbull Powersports I have not been disappointed once..

 

[Pampurrs]

Cool discussion. We too are on an RT. I purchased the bypass a while back and replaced the oem primary muffler / cat whatever we deem it to be.

As a group, I would say it is safe to say the bypass alone does work well and improve performance over stock.

The F3 and the RT may have the same basic engine, same basic exhaust but differ in the final muffler itself. This may or may not make a difference.

It is well accepted that for high rpm use on most vehicles, and exhaust with no baffling at all tends to provide the greatest amount of HP in a smaller window of rpm range.

So, a straight thru system, on a Spyder, such as a Yosh, Two Brothers or similar may not be optimum for everyone.

A baffled muffler with a bypass pipe may provide enough restriction to work well for others.

As far as the baffles installed into any exhaust. Often they serve two purposes. One is sound reduction. The second could be power delivery. Most baffles are known to increase mid range torque, not so much HP, but the baffled exhaust often falls off in peak power and torque at higher rpms.

The non baffled exhaust could have less mid range torque than a baffled exhaust but could outperform the baffled version at high rpms.

Many people did not enjoy the "tone" of the bypassed exhaust and wanted a deeper less "ricer" sound to their Spyder.

The baffle not only provides less free flow to the exhaust, the real key is that the exhaust pulse wave is altered. In theory the exhaust pipe dimension from the exhaust valve to the restriction, (original primary muffler, the baffle in the muffler when running a bypass or the baffle inserted into the bypass) all have a given length. The length of the pipe from valve to restriction tunes the resonance in the entire exhaust. If the length is short, it typically but not always reduces torque, if the length is longer it typically increases torque.

There are other factors, such as the effect of the cooling of exhaust gases causes them to slow and creates a restriction. A change in the pipes cross sectional area also changes the way the flow moves through the pipe.


In summary, I do not run the baffle. I immediately realized the power delivery changed with the bypass and improved once the computer optimized the the F/A ratio. I do find that over 6k rpm, and seldom do I turn the RTS that high, the power does "feel" like it goes flat.

Here's the kicker though, without seeing torque curves, from the same machine, running different exhaust configurations, and dynoe after the computer has had run time to optimize the settings, it truly is subjective to what the rider feels AND what rpm the rider tends to run the Spyder at.

I must also add, and this is based on tuning many race bikes for many years, very often, the rider hears what they think is fast. Not saying anyone posting is right or wrong, simply that from testing, and lap times, what the rider says is fast, sometimes is not correct and often the "sound" of fast is different for different people.

The really odd item in all of this, the dyno info that was shared by Pitbull / Lamonster seemed to indicate the 10% increase in power came from their in house exhaust system with I believe has a non baffle mid pipe, and straight thru muffler. The restriction is very close to the end of the muffler. If I am incorrect about this, please make the info about the Pitbull cat back exhaust correct.

Thank you for that very informative post. Apparently you know your stuff!

Pam

 

[Machinegunner]

PMK, it's good to hear your explanation. I understand physics of tuning from drag racing years ago. It's all about putting the torque curve where you can use it the most. That said, I have an F3S and had the by pass. After installing it I noticed a drop in mid-range power. Not a lot, but noticeable. At Spyderfest this year I purchased Pit Bull's complete exhaust system. It has a deeper sound that I like and as near as I can tell, all, the mid-range is back and then some. It feels very strong now, very happy.

 

[SpyderAnn01]

The really odd item in all of this, the dyno info that was shared by Pitbull / Lamonster seemed to indicate the 10% increase in power came from their in house exhaust system with I believe has a non baffle mid pipe, and straight thru muffler. The restriction is very close to the end of the muffler. If I am incorrect about this, please make the info about the Pitbull cat back exhaust correct.

You are correct, the exhaust/bypass combo from Pitbull does not have a baffle.

 

[cmarsala]

Cat delete and baffle

I've read some good pro's and a few con's about this issue, so I thought I'd throw my 2¢ in. Well I've been riding and building bike's for better part of 45 years, and these issues of to run a baffle or no is up to the rider and his expectations. Personally I run the cat delete and baffle in my F3, I too ran it for a few weeks without the baffle and now a few months with it, bottom end torque increased with just the cat bypass, where I gained with the baffle was in midrange throttle response, no flat spots. How much back pressure is needed, that I don't know, the only test equipment that I kept after I retired was my fat ass and it tells me that the combo of the cat delete and baffle work together to move the F3 like it should. I'll say this, I gave an ZO6 Corvette an education on stop light to stop light running, he didn't even pull up next to me at the light, I just looked back at him and waved! I haven't done anything that dumb in 25years, but it was fun!
There will be a lot of opinions on this issue, so use some judgement as to what you're after. I quit running drag pipes on my Harley's because all that did was make noise unless you're running wide open all the time, so I went to some kind of baffle. Good Luck with your choices. Again just my 2¢.:doorag::doorag:

 

[Pampurrs]

You are correct, the exhaust/bypass combo from Pitbull does not have a baffle.

Ann, what setup do you have on your RT? It sounded pretty good when you fired it up for me.

Pam

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Ann, what setup do you have on your RT? It sounded pretty good when you fired it up for me.

Pam

I have the Pitbull cat/ exhaust combo. It is a bit loud

 

[PaladinLV]

On an RT the OEM or almost any aftermarket muffler/silencer can be added with the bypass.

AJ

Is it necessary to install the monster baffle when installing
the cat delete pipe? Seems to me that the stock muffler would
create enough back pressure. Am I missing something here and
while I am at it is the cat a full up legal cat?

Thanks in advance!!

Dray:yes:

 

[Machinegunner]

The exhaust system I bought from Pit Bull is their new design. It has a baffle about mid point in muffler. Their original exhaust did not have a baffle. I'm sure the mid range would be gone in that case. It was very loud compared to the new one. I think they have a winner.