Carbon buildup

[RykerUSA]

Some of you may remember my post of Last Summer where I had carbon build-up to the extent that a piece of carbon the size of a quarter chipped off the top of the cylinder head into the combustion chamber. It broke the spark plug electrode and the combination of the piece of carbon and the little piece of metal from the spark plug damage my cylinder head. It was in the shop for nearly 2 months and cost $2,400 to fix. Sucks being me.

Shortly after getting the bike back, I made a 4000 mile trip out west and noticed that when I started the bike in cooler temperatures, the bike would start but would idle rough and I could not get the RPM's up when applying the throttle. It through a code of p1614 which means throttle body problem - most likely throttle body needing cleaning which is again a carbon build-up issue.

Incidentally this is a 2015 S T limited with now 27,000 miles on it.

Ever since I bought this bike I do periodically run fuel system cleaner through a tank of gas. I use the good stuff - Techron.

Despite this, this bike has a carbon build-up issue.

Incidentally, when I got back from the West trip, I added a heavy dose of Techron and put it through several " Italian tune-ups" driving it like I stole it. The bike now starts normally with no code.

I generally run Speedway premium gas.

Anybody else hear of this type of issue? Anything else I should be doing?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Carbon build-up

From what you have described ....imho .... your Spyder is unique in the " V twin " Spyder world ..... There are many many Spyders with 4 x's your mileage that have never had this problem ........ I have No Faith in your dealer if this is beginning again .... I would inquire of BRP if they will buy your Spyder back ....... good luck ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[RinconRyder]

Pulling and inspecting your spark plugs.....what color is the insulator? If it is tan/brown that should indicate a normal temperature and fuel mixture. Anything darker would indicate a rich mixture and perhaps an ignition issue. Obviously, running the engine at highway speeds would tend to keep the carbon buildup down but I'd look at the ignition/mixture controller for some sort of problem.

Other things to check: is fuel system operating normally (specifically, leaning out the mixture as the engine warms up) and does the engine run at normal operating temp once warmed?

 

[RykerUSA]

Spark plugs look fine. No issue. Operating temperature is also fine.

 

[RykerUSA]

Can-Am dealer initially claim that I ran diesel fuel through the bike but there is absolutely no way that could be true.

 

[pegasus1300]

I doubt they will buy your Spyder back tho it doesn't cost anything to ask. But I do think you need to find a dealer whose diagnosis ability you can trust because it is obvious all the other dealer did was replace the obviously broken parts with no investigation into what caused the original problem,the excess carbon buildup.

As a help here describe your normal day to day driving habits. Stop and go, good stretches of highway, sub 4000 shifting, Plus 4500 shifting etc etc.

 

[Chupaca]

Interesting....

Newer models seldom have throttle body issues. P1614 Is actually a throttle stop issue mechanical but could be related to the ECM (engine control module) generally you would have a bank too rich or lean situation. Chunks of carbon big enough and hard enough to break spark plugs :dontknow: I could see bending the plug tip but that would shut down that cylinder something you would notice quite quickly. Not enough to go on to speculate but would get a second opinion. Carnon buildup can only come from the liquids making it to the combustion chamber....gas, oil, additives...

 

[old Timer]

You will solve your problem with the application of doing an occasional application of a full throttle run thru the gears to the engines rev limiter, or at least in 2nd and 3rd gears. Helps to blow out any Carbon build up before it builds up to large deposits due to running your engine too timidly generally.

If you were too easy on your engine, the Piston Rings may not have properly seated.

 

[Little Blue]

Costco Top Tier Gas

I use Costco Premium Gas. You definitely need better gas than Speedway. Even Shell is a better choice. Have you NOT heard about TOP TIER GASOLINE. Just my 2 cents. Little Blue

 

[Mikey]

Can-Am dealer initially claim that I ran diesel fuel through the bike but there is absolutely no way that could be true.

What makes them feel you ran diesel through you bike? God if you had you would have had a handful of issues with that, not to mention it would have smoked like the devil.

 

[RykerUSA]

I certainly agree with use of diesel. I would have known it. The only thing that I think could have contributed is the use of Speedway Gas. But one would think that with periodic use of Techron, Speedway would not cause that extent of carbon build-up.

 

[Mikey]

We have some crappie gas in Maine, but I don't know if I would put all the blame on that. I use the Textron in my cars, use seafoam in everything else in the door yard along with stabil with great results! I wonder if there's something going on with your ecm like the post above stated! This is a good one, good luck keep us posted.

 

[Richardv]

What about your engine oil ?

I certainly agree with use of diesel. I would have known it. The only thing that I think could have contributed is the use of Speedway Gas. But one would think that with periodic use of Techron, Speedway would not cause that extent of carbon build-up.

What kind of oil do you use. What about your oil level ? Do you add a lot between changes? Could it be that the air filter is "polluted" with oil, and restricting air flow?

Also someone already asked what is your typical shift rpm ? If normally shifting below 4000rpm, this could be your problem....

 

[Machinegunner]

Why are you using so much fuel conditioner, cleaner? Most major brands have additives in them already. I have never used any and have had zero issues with three different Spyders.

 

[south GA Farm Boy]

Carbon Buildup

Guys,
Down here in the Southern States, I never buy Hi-Test gas when I am on the road, due to bad fuel. Very few cars run high test octane gas, so you may be buying gas that has been setting in a unground tank for several months or years! I buy regular 87 octane on the road and add a fuel additive to it! I buy hi-test at a local gas station in my home town, that I can trust! That last hi-test I bought on the road was for a Harley I owned at the time, and it ran about 15 miles before the trouble began! Messed up my plugs, started going dead and was hard to crank, luck I had a truck and trailer a few hours away to load it on and get it back home! Reg gas since with a fuel or octane additive, and my trouble went away! Good luck with your problem!

 

[RykerUSA]

No problem with air filter. No evidence of oil. Always shift above 4500 RPMs and usually about 5000. I will generally have to add a half a quart of oil midway between oil changes and that I understand is normal. I have never experienced any excessive smoke/exhaust that would indicate burning oil.


Prior to the two months in the shop, I did run in trailer mode all the time as this prevented shifting below 4500 RPMs. I am not aware of anything else that the trailer mode does that could have contributed to this problem. Am I missing something?

 

[BajaRon]

Certainly an Unusual problem

A piece of carbon that big? I'm wondering how they knew. Was it still in the cylinder?

I'm assuming that both cylinders are equally carboned up?

Could be the station got a delivery with diesel already in it. Or, they accidentally put a load of diesel into the wrong underground tank. This has happened before where they put gasoline into the underground diesel tank and destroyed some motors.

You'd have to be running REALLY rich to get this much carbon buildup.

Do you allow your Spyder to idle cold at startup for extended periods?

Something very strange going on here.

 

[Machinegunner]

How often do you add the fuel additive? Could it be often enough that the ratio to gasoline could be too high and screwing up the oxygen sensor?

 

[WackyDan]

I doubt fuel additives are your issue unless you are drowning it in them... At that point, yes they would cause some issues, but only on the tank you ran it in.

You don't need premium except for the extra detergents they add, but regular 87 octane is fine and already has detergents.

The 990 and 991 series Rotax runs leaner at high RPM's. As other's have mentioned, doing so occasionally would help with the issue, but not with what is causing it to happen to begin with. If you run highway speed for several miles at 75-800 MPH you are doing that job... If you don't go that fast, just drop a gear or two at a lower speed - same result.

We still don't know if you've added a pipe or fuel controller or intake. Adding a pipe and/or intake will lean the bike out (too much) so that wouldn't be the cause of your issue. Running a fuel controller could certainly make the bike run too rich whether you've added an intake and/or pipe not.

If you don't have any mods, then I suggest the best step is to find another reputable dealer to take a look at it.

 

[BajaRon]

I doubt fuel additives are your issue unless you are drowning it in them... At that point, yes they would cause some issues, but only on the tank you ran it in.

You don't need premium except for the extra detergents they add, but regular 87 octane is fine and already has detergents.

I disagree. Thought the 998cc Rotax will run on 87 octane. It is designed to run on premium fuel. It will run on lower octane fuel because the computer retards the ignition timing to compensate for the low octane. But if you want your 998 to run as designed. You need to give it the fuel it was designed for.

It is true that all fuels from a particular vendor come with the same additive package. They promote the additive package for the premium fuel to make you think you're getting something more for your money beyond just the octane boost. But it isn't true. If you're engine is designed to run on 87 octane. You will get the best performance from 87 octane. Buying premium fuel for an 87 octane motor will actually reduce performance.