BRP Oil Filters, are They Inferior?

[PMK]

During a recent FB Group discussion, it was stated that BRP / Rotax oil filters are inferior to HiFlo and K&N oil filters.

Apparently, K&N oil filters are manufactured by HiFlo.

I understand there were issues and concerns with certain V Twin filters collapsing, and even the increased filter / housing size on the V Twins.

The topic did not specify but included filters from both the twins and triples being inferior, including issues of collapsed filters, issues of the metal end plates coming unglued and failing, and even the issue that the engine oil dissolves the filter media turning it to mush.

Myself, I have run oem Rotax filters since day one. This was the first I had read of the concerns, and most alarming the filter media turning to mush as it is dissolved by the engine oil.

Have others that use oem filters seen these concerns?

Other than break in oil that was BRP oil, our 14 RTS has run Mobil 1 Sportbike motorcycle oil after break in.

Curious about what others have found.

 

[Highwayman2013]

The only problems I have ever heard of were early on on the V twins.

 

[JayBros]

Sounds like a BS meter pegger. Where's the data?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OEM FILTERS

Sounds like a BS meter pegger. Where's the data?

Sorry I don't have the data or the post PMK mentioned ....However I remember reading the Threads and Posts He is referring to....................Mike :thumbup:

 

[pegasus1300]

I have not heard of any problems other then the HiFlow is cheaper thru BajaRon then the factory filter

 

[PMK]

Sorry I don't have the data or the post PMK mentioned ....However I remember reading the Threads and Posts He is referring to....................Mike :thumbup:

I recall the collapsed filters but never read or have seen one that was turned to mush by the engine oil. Did you read posts about filters turning to mush after being exposed to engine oil?

 

[jcthorne]

Mush may be a stronger than reality adjective. The rotax media is not sufficiently sound to withstand the differential pressure of its own accord and requires the metal mesh inside and out to support it. The use of the mesh is NOT preferred as it consumes a large portion of the available filter volume. The HiFlo / K&N filters using self supporting pleated media as is the norm in filters of this type contain far more surface area in the same size filter. (Many more pleats fit).

 

[PMK]

Mush may be a stronger than reality adjective. The rotax media is not sufficiently sound to withstand the differential pressure of its own accord and requires the metal mesh inside and out to support it. The use of the mesh is NOT preferred as it consumes a large portion of the available filter volume. The HiFlo / K&N filters using self supporting pleated media as is the norm in filters of this type contain far more surface area in the same size filter. (Many more pleats fit).

The spin on style oil filters used in light aircraft all utilize a perforated metal center core to prevent filter collapse. These engine driven oil pumps supply more oil volume at often higher pressures through a filter the size of a small block V8, and do so without concerns.

In regards to the 1330 Stock Rotax oil filter, maybe the center support core on a BRP oil filter does not flow as much as the aftermarket version, but it certainly seems up to the task of adequate flow.

When you consider the connections for truck or car oil coolers, the diameter of the tube or hose is adequate. An oil filter, whether with or without a core, slows down the flow as it passes the oil through a large surface area. Suspect if the area of all those perforated holes were added together, that area is quite a large amount.

 

[BajaRon]

The Timeline...

People get partial stories and tend to run the facts together with opinion and leave out the timeline history.

Here is what happened.

BRP filters from 2008 to mid-production year 2012 were very poorly made. So much so that some collapsed and some did disintegrate (not exactly 'Mush'. But not far from it), which caused enough engine replacements on warranty that it got BRP's attention.

In mid-production year 2012 BRP pulled all of their OEM oil filters from every location. You could not beg, borrow or steal an OEM oil filter. They suddenly did not exist. And without warning. I had been using the HiFlo oil filters in my 2008 Spyder because #1 the price of the OEM fitlers was high and #2 their poor construction did not impress me. It actually worried me a bit.

When the blight hit I started selling oil filters to help fill the void. There were the usual suspicions because they were aftermarket and were less expensive than the OEM. But since people needed oil service there wasn't much of a choice.

If I remember correctly it took BRP about 4 months to get new filters on the market, just about the time that most people were parking their Spyders anyway. The shame of it was that instead of simply going to HiFlow and contracting for a proven, high quality, dependable, off the shelf, already in production filter. They decided to re-invent the wheel with a now, overkill product. There is no need for the external wire mesh on these filters unless the filter medium used by BRP requires it. And they changed the transmission filter specs which made it the only filter of that dimension in the world. BRP was the sole source for this filter for a long time. Recently, K&N came out with their version of this filter so now you have a choice. But unfortunately, K&N retained the original filter's part number 559, which confuses people.

The original transmission filter dimension flows plenty of oil. I have a fair number of customers still using the original sized trans filter. Some with over 100,000 miles on their Spyder with Zero issues. My feeling is that the new BRP filters may be more restrictive so the additional size was necessary. But that is just speculation on my part.

That being said, the current BRP filters (since late 2012) are of very high quality and will not disintegrate, collapse or give you any issues. Though I would not consider them functionally superior to the HiFlo or K&N. BRP did do a good job on the 2nd try.

 

[PMK]

JC, seems your request that I call BajaRon is not needed.

Your posts on the FB group are a bit out of alignment with what Ron has stated.

Thank you Ron for posting that and clearing up the concerns that could be raised.

 

[BajaRon]

JC, seems your request that I call BajaRon is not needed.

Your posts on the FB group are a bit out of alignment with what Ron has stated.

Thank you Ron for posting that and clearing up the concerns that could be raised.

JC is a great guy and very knowledgeable. But even if he weren't. I do not want to get in the middle of an... uh... heated discussion?

After posting my last on the filter timeline I realized that I should have mentioned the atypical filter medium and that this might require the external mesh. Which, if JC posted what you said, he is correct about the pleated filter medium having more integrity.

The original BRP filters had a pleated paper medium (similar to HiFlo). There is a wide range of filter medium quality and I don't know what BRP was using. But their original filters had neither the inner or outer support. The lack of inner support was the main factor in the failures. Frankly, it was a bit surprising that these filters were constructed in this way as I know of no other oil filter for anything that does not includ this necessary feature.

Bottom line is the current BRP filters are very good quality and construction as far as I know and no one should have any concerns about them. If you do happen to come upon one of the original BRP paper medium filters. BURN IT and THOW IT AWAY!

 

[PMK]

JC is a great guy and very knowledgeable. But even if he weren't. I do not want to get in the middle of an... uh... heated discussion?

After posting my last on the filter timeline I realized that I should have mentioned the atypical filter medium and that this might require the external mesh. Which, if JC posted what you said, he is correct about the pleated filter medium having more integrity.

The original BRP filters had a pleated paper medium (similar to HiFlo). There is a wide range of filter medium quality and I don't know what BRP was using. But their original filters had neither the inner or outer support. The lack of inner support was the main factor in the failures. Frankly, it was a bit surprising that these filters were constructed in this way as I know of no other oil filter for anything that does not includ this necessary feature.

Bottom line is the current BRP filters are very good quality and construction as far as I know and no one should have any concerns about them. If you do happen to come upon one of the original BRP paper medium filters. BURN IT and THOW IT AWAY!

Thank you for the entire explanation. That alone was why I started the topic.

Just to be clear, I never considered any of this as heated discussion.

JC, I have never met him, but as you mention, I too would probably find he is a great person.

I posted this, merely to clarify some of the statements he made on the FB group. Clarify not only for others, but also myself. Our 14 RTS has been running Rotax / BRP filters from day one. An oil change is coming up, and, I would hope that you understand that when I read that the oil would turn tne filters to mush, that was a concern.

Your explanation, in regards to both the oem filters and aftermarket filters is clear and explained well. Essentially a great answer to what I asked, thanks.

 

[BajaRon]

Thank you for the entire explanation. That alone was why I started the topic.

Just to be clear, I never considered any of this as heated discussion.

JC, I have never met him, but as you mention, I too would probably find he is a great person.

I posted this, merely to clarify some of the statements he made on the FB group. Clarify not only for others, but also myself. Our 14 RTS has been running Rotax / BRP filters from day one. An oil change is coming up, and, I would hope that you understand that when I read that the oil would turn tne filters to mush, that was a concern.

Your explanation, in regards to both the oem filters and aftermarket filters is clear and explained well. Essentially a great answer to what I asked, thanks.

No problem at all. I don't go to the FB site so I have no idea who is saying what there. There just seems to be so much hate and discontent these days and I don't want to go there. Not that there was in this case. I just didn't know.

Everyone takes a side and that is to be expected. I take sides. But we should still be able to appreciate the other guy, even if we disagree. And that's where I want to be.

 

[PMK]

No problem at all. I don't go to the FB site so I have no idea who is saying what there. There just seems to be so much hate and discontent these days and I don't want to go there. Not that there was in this case. I just didn't know.

Everyone takes a side and that is to be expected. I take sides. But we should still be able to appreciate the other guy, even if we disagree. And that's where I want to be.

It’s all good. Honestly, it is more about the facts. Not about emotions. If a statement is made, especially towards a Spyder audience on the internet, ideally it is accurate, accurately worded, and sustainable. No doubt everyone makes mistakes. Ironic though, regarding Spyders, and several other things I follow on the internet, the correct information dies quickly, while inaccurate statement become legendary truths.

 

[BajaRon]

It’s all good. Honestly, it is more about the facts. Not about emotions. If a statement is made, especially towards a Spyder audience on the internet, ideally it is accurate, accurately worded, and sustainable. No doubt everyone makes mistakes. Ironic though, regarding Spyders, and several other things I follow on the internet, the correct information dies quickly, while inaccurate statement become legendary truths.

You are right. The truth does seem to have an early departure while inaccurate information seems to go on forever. Not sure why that is. I guess we'll just have to keep plugging away at it.

 

[pegasus1300]

Unfortunately this seems to be the pattern in many areas.

 

[JayBros]

Thanks much, Ron, for the detailed explanation. That "data" is good enough for me since the big problem preceded my Spyder purchase. I've used both HiFlo and OEM and have not noticed any difference in performance although I have not run a HiFlo 9,300 miles.

 

[jcthorne]

Thanks Ron for your well spoken explanation. Far better than what I tried to mumble. No heated discussion here. What you spoke was much closer to what I was thinking than what I managed to explain. Thanks.

I do still favor the K&N / HiFlo over the current gen Rotax but agree, its as much personal preference as anything.

 

[BajaRon]

Thanks much, Ron, for the detailed explanation. That "data" is good enough for me since the big problem preceded my Spyder purchase. I've used both HiFlo and OEM and have not noticed any difference in performance although I have not run a HiFlo 9,300 miles.

I have customers that have run well over 11k on the HiFlo filters. I don't recommend it but not because of the filters. More because the oil is usually not up to the task. The filters are fine.

Thanks Ron for your well spoken explanation. Far better than what I tried to mumble. No heated discussion here. What you spoke was much closer to what I was thinking than what I managed to explain. Thanks.

I do still favor the K&N / HiFlo over the current gen Rotax but agree, its as much personal preference as anything.

Maybe I'm getting too sensitive. But for whatever reason I felt a twinge that maybe I was drifting into a heated situation. I'm not here to make anyone angry or push anyone's buttons. Though this may happen. I don't want it to be on purpose. I was glad to hear it was all good.

Plus I check twice before I take an opposite side from you as I've not found a situation where I didn't agree with your posts.