Brake pad rubbing noise - what is the correct way to fix this?

[Allen42]

I noticed a rotational light squealing noise coming from left front when going down my alley the other day. If a car, I'd think it sounded like a low brake pad, bearing, or a pad rubbing.

After getting the wheel up and turning it, I was sure it’s coming from the brakes. I took the wheel off and it looks like there is plenty of life left in the pads, as shown.

What’s the proper way to fix this? I see people saying lube the pins, I see others saying "no, don’t do that, it just collects more dirt"

What do you experts say I should do? And which YouTube video do you prefer for the procedure? It seems some say to remove sensors, etc.

 

[ulflyer]

Might be the pad is glazed a bit. What i've done is run up to 20mph or so, hit the brake pedal hard. Do this a couple times. I leave it to you to do it safely.

 

[Allen42]

Might be the pad is glazed a bit. What i've done is run up to 20mph or so, hit the brake pedal hard. Do this a couple times. I leave it to you to do it safely.

Thanks but I’ve done that process a few times try to eliminate some brake squeal when actually braking. It helped some, but I still get the squeal intermittently, and it seems to vary with the brake temp. I’m more concerned about this constant rub. It seems like the caliper shouldn’t be resting on the rotor with no braking applied?

 

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks but I’ve done that process a few times try to eliminate some brake squeal when actually braking. It helped some, but I still get the squeal intermittently, and it seems to vary with the brake temp. I’m more concerned about this constant rub. It seems like the caliper shouldn’t be resting on the rotor with no braking applied?

Are your discs getting hot while you're riding without any braking?? :dontknow:

If you can ride for a while, saaay, 5-10 mins or so without any braking, and then coast to a stop without any braking, maybe you could use a 'no-touch/remote/infra-red temperature gauge' to check/compare the temperature of the disc with the temp of the metal bits around it, like the rim, the brake caliper, the A-arms etc??? If there's no significant difference between those temps (ie, 100°C or more! ) then there's a good chance that you're worrying needlessly! hyea:

But if the disc temp is over 100°C or so more than any of the surrounding metal bits, and you are ABSOBLOOMINLUTELY SURE that you didn't even THINK about touching the brakes in the last 10 minutes or so; &/or the disc temp itself is anything like 600° C or more, then you've most likely got a problem that needs addressing! :lecturef_smilie:




I would suggest that if you don't have an infra-red or no-touch thermometer handy, you might instead try using the 'Finger-tip test' that I learnt as a kid...

(Some of you might know of it... the test where you carefully edge your fingertip, preferably one that you don't use for too many other important things, closer & closer to the disc surface until either you can't bear to get it any closer or you actually touch the disc surface; and if you don't immediately hear that sizzling sound you hear when you drop raw meat onto a red hot bbq plate &/or you don't instantly scream & pull your finger out & put it in your mouth in an attempt to alleviate the searing agony associated with burning your fingertip off at the same time as you start retching uncontrollably cos you've just brought the awful smell of incinerated flesh & fingernail right up close to your nose, then your disc isn't really hot enough to worry about... - d'you know that one?! :shocked: )

but since the loss of two fingertips (yeah, yeah, I know already; but there were TWO bloody front discs to check, weren't there! I know, I'm a slow learner, OK! But at least once I learn something, it bloody well STAYS learnt! :banghead: ) decades ago is now coming back to haunt me, I don't think you really should do that... Altho, thinking about it..... it has taken decades for the loss those fingertips & all feeling in the resulting scars to become a real problem for me, so if you don't think you've really got too many decades left in you, then maybe you might.... Yeah, NO!! :lecturef_smilie:

Use a remote sensing thermometer to see if your disc/s is/are getting hot, and if not, then just....



Ride more, Worry Less! :thumbup:
,

 

[Allen42]

I have an infrared thermometer. I may try that. I will also compare left rotor temp vs right. But if this is somewhat normal, why doesn’t the right side do it?

So no one thinks lubing or cleaning some parts will fix it?

 

[Peter Aawen]

Pads often rub juuuust a little on the disc for a while; or every now & then; but unless it causes abnormal heat generation, it's usually no biggie. There's a bunch of things that might be involved, like the disc run-out; the slide pins; the state of wear; when you last changed the brake fluid; a build-up of debris between the disc & pads or around the caliper; and a bunch more... So unless you know SPECIFICALLY what is causing a pad/any of your pads to be running on the disc at this given instant, there really isn't necessarily ANY truly 'correct' way of fixing it, nor is there really ANY 'necessary' way of actually fixing it!! :banghead:

From what I can see in your pics, it looks to me like your outside pad(?) is worn more than your inside pad, and that could be indicative of a few issues or concerns; but you won't really know unless/until you take the caliper off and have a look... :lecturef_smilie:

Until then, any solution offered here is most likely only going to be a SWAG; and even then, the actual cause of any rubbing still might be a bit of a guess - so given that it looks like you're going to need to replace those pads fairly soon anyway, I'd do that temp check, may even compare the 'rubbing pad' disc temps to the disc temp on the other side, and if doing that doesn't reveal any significant differences in temps, your choices are either:

1. replace all the pads now and see if you can find a cause for any rubbing that may or may not be a long term issue, maybe remedy that; or

2. wait to do that pad change until you really need to replace the 'most worn' pad, which probably won't be too many miles down track -

If this was happening on my Spyder, I'd say you'd need to replace all the pads within maybe A thousand miles, but certainly not too many thousand IF they last any longer than that... But that might depend upon how hard you ride your Spyder &/or how long they've been on there already... :dontknow:

Just Sayin' :thumbup:

 

[Mikey]

I would take it apart and give them a GOOD cleaning, check to see that the pads are free to move as they should, maybe put a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface and scuff the pads lightly, check the rotors for flat and put them back together and see what you have. It's hard to tell from your pictures but they look dirty! Good luck:dontknow:

 

[Allen42]

From what I can see in your pics, it looks to me like your outside pad(?) is worn more than your inside pad, and that could be indicative of a few issues or concerns; but you won't really know unless/until you take the caliper off and have a look... :lecturef_smilie:

...
...so given that it looks like you're going to need to replace those pads fairly soon...
2. wait to do that pad change until you really need to replace the 'most worn' pad, which probably won't be too many miles down track -

If this was happening on my Spyder, I'd say you'd need to replace all the pads within maybe A thousand miles, but certainly not too many thousand IF they last any longer than that... But that might depend upon how hard you ride your Spyder &/or how long they've been on there already... :dontknow:

I thought the pad change was due at 1mm. These both appear to be between 3 and 4 mm (edit: actually closer to 2mm and 2.5mm, see below) by my estimate, which would seem like they have a longer life left to me. I've had the bike for at least 8k miles, but I don't know how many miles they had on them before that. I ride fairly aggressively, but I don't tend to use the brakes that much. But yes, the outside is for sure a little more worn than inside. I haven't checked the right wheel yet.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I thought the pad change was due at 1mm. These both appear to be between 3 and 4 mm by my estimate, which would seem like they have a longer life left to me. I've had the bike for at least 8k miles, but I don't know how many miles they had on them before that. I ride fairly aggressively, but I don't tend to use the brakes that much. But yes, the outside is for sure a little more worn than inside. I haven't checked the right wheel yet.

Generally, it's the slots cut into the pad that indicate the 'safe wear' limit - if you can still juuuust see them ALL, you're still OK, but once ANY of them have gone, you should be replacing ALL the pads pdq! :lecturef_smilie:

It looks to me like you can still JUST see the slots on the thinner of the pads in your pics, and it looks like one slot on one end of that pad has very nearly gone completely - and you should ALWAYS replace all the pads on an axle/end whenever any one of those pads meets the minimum depth ANYWHERE!! So from what I can see, I'd say you are within about 1000 miles of needing to replace ALL of your front pads!! But, that's going by my experience and from what I can see in your pics, which may not be quite the same as what you can see and measure there where you can actually see the real thing!!

So if they're right there in front of you, can you see/tell us - Is one of the pads on that disc worn more than the other?? And if it is, is one end on that pad worn thinner than the other end?? Can you tell us how thick the thinnest part of the pad material is on the thinnest pad you have remaining? Have you ACTUALLY measured both ends of each of your brake pads to confirm how thick they are and to work out what the thinnest bit of pad remaining actually is? :dontknow:

It's very hard to tell that sort of thing/measurement accurately just from pics; generally, it's somewhat harder to do that from pics than it is to reasonably accurately 'guesstimate', even without actually measuring, when you're within eyeballing distance; but if you can't get something in there, saaaayyy, the end of a vernier gauge, to actually measure both ends of each pad, then you are really only guessing too, albeit maybe your guess is a little more 'educated' or possibly 'a little closer to reality' than our SWAG's, cos we are only guesstimating based off what we can see your pics!! There again, maybe your guesstimate really isn't all that much better not - who knows... Or at least, who knows without actually measuring?? :gaah:

But if you can't measure them, can you still see ALL of the slots cut into each of the pads, or is there one or more of those pads with one or more of its slots worn down to almost nothing?? Remember, the moment that slot in the thinnest bit of the thinnest pad disappears, you should be replacing ALL the brake pads - and not waiting until the last bit of the last slot remaining in the last of your possibly unevenly worn pads disappear - because by then, you'll probably need to be replacing both discs too!! :yikes: :banghead:

 

[Allen42]

I just did a very scientific measurement using a coated paper clip that is almost exactly 1mm, and the outer pad is 2mm, inner is 2.5mm. I can't figure out how to see the entire pad on the inside without taking the caliper or the plastic wheel cover off. I may just order some pads and change them regardless.... seems fairly cheap, and easy enough. It seems like both Lamonster and BajaRon like EBC HH, neither of which are pre-chamfered or grooved. I've seen posts where Ron says you can do that yourself, but that notion skeers me a little, as articles I've read says you need to get the chamfer correct, or you can actually make the chances of squeal even more.

 

[Allen42]

What do you guys think of this guy's video, replacing front pads without removing the calipers? (Aside from not using any anti-seize or lube behind the backing plate) Even if you did remove the caliper for better cleaning, does the screwdriver pry method really push the pad back in, and won't damage the rotor? I though they needed "screwed" in?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbfFLIQ_PsU

 

[Peter Aawen]

What do you guys think of this guy's video, replacing front pads without removing the calipers? (Aside from not using any anti-seize or lube behind the backing plate) Even if you did remove the caliper for better cleaning, does the screwdriver pry method really push the pad back in, and won't damage the rotor? I thought they needed to be "screwed" in?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbfFLIQ_PsU

It's only the rear caliper piston that needs to be screwed in, as shown in that vid when he changes the rear pads. :thumbup:

As for doing the fronts that way, just so long as you're careful to use the flat of the screwdriver blade, & not the tip or edges (ie. the parts of the screwdriver that're usually hardened! ) you can really do whatever floats your boat! I take the calipers off because it lets me check everything, including the rubber seals on the caliper pistons, the discs, & the wheel bearings too, instead of just hoping that everything is all OK!

 

[carbonation]

My '19 used to squeal like a stuck pig. Several attempts were tried, both me and the dealer. It just never went away permanently, until I replaced the Brembo pads with another type. A lot of other brands of bikes use that same caliper, and there are many brake pads available out there. Use your Google-Fu. I got semi-metallic aftermarket pads, and applied a very thin coat of CRC Disk Brake Quiet to the backs of the pads at install. It never made another sound the whole 3 years I owned it, about 30k miles.

 

[Isopedella]

Take this or leave it.
As part of my annual service I remove the front wheels, detach the caliper,
remove the pad retaining pin, and brake pads.

Then I give the caliper a clean with brake cleaner and a toothbrush.
Ensure the pucks are mobile and its still a floating caliper.
Small smear of the Red Rubber Grease on the extended pucks and push them back in.
Some more on the retaining pin and the float pins or whatever you call them.
If the pads are about 3/4 worn I dont get out my micrometer and work out just how much more I can get out of them but waste $$ and fit new ones.

The rear caliper is a little more tricky. I must admit I have to give it an 11/10 HOOOOYA! to get that puck to rotate back in.

Or you could do nothing and wait for it to stop floating, pucks gum up, get stuck yadi-ya and cause problems.

 

[Allen42]

My '19 used to squeal like a stuck pig. Several attempts were tried, both me and the dealer. It just never went away permanently, until I replaced the Brembo pads with another type. A lot of other brands of bikes use that same caliper, and there are many brake pads available out there. Use your Google-Fu. I got semi-metallic aftermarket pads, and applied a very thin coat of CRC Disk Brake Quiet to the backs of the pads at install. It never made another sound the whole 3 years I owned it, about 30k miles.

Thanks for posting this. I think that is my plan. I'll get the EBC set, chamfer the front edges, and use some anti-squeal on the back plate.

 

[Allen42]

Take this or leave it.
As part of my annual service I remove the front wheels, detach the caliper,
remove the pad retaining pin, and brake pads.

Then I give the caliper a clean with brake cleaner and a toothbrush.
Ensure the pucks are mobile and its still a floating caliper.
Small smear of the Red Rubber Grease on the extended pucks and push them back in.
Some more on the retaining pin and the float pins or whatever you call them.
If the pads are about 3/4 worn I dont get out my micrometer and work out just how much more I can get out of them but waste $$ and fit new ones.

The rear caliper is a little more tricky. I must admit I have to give it an 11/10 HOOOOYA! to get that puck to rotate back in.

Or you could do nothing and wait for it to stop floating, pucks gum up, get stuck yadi-ya and cause problems.

So you are in the "grease the pins" camp. Since you do it annually, maybe that offsets some people's concern about the grease collecting the grime, and making things worse. I'm still undecided which way to go.

 

[BajaRon]

So you are in the "grease the pins" camp. Since you do it annually, maybe that offsets some people's concern about the grease collecting the grime, and making things worse. I'm still undecided which way to go.

All disk brake systems drag the pads slightly. It's the nature of the beast.

If, for some reason, there is resistance against the pads returning to their place when the brake is released, friction is increased and this can create noise. So, the 1st step is to make sure the pads are free. That means cleaning, smoothing any rough edges, and lubricating every sliding point of contact between the pad backing plate and caliper. Some have pins, others have channels, and still others may utilize both.

Some like to slather anti-seize everywhere to be sure they get all contact points covered. This approach will certainly create issues. Don't do that.

Use a good quality anti-seize lubricant on only those areas of contact or potential contact allowing for movement of the pads as they wear. The anti-seize needs to be applied in a VERY THIN coating. Yes, a very small amount of debris may accumulate. But the anti-seize tends to lubricate this as well. We are not talking close tolerance cam bearings here as the tolerances on these brake components are extremely generous. The anti-seize also prevents rust (which will create more issues than the small amount of dust which may develop over time). Proper application of anti-seize will also prevent damage to the sliding parts which will occur with binding if the pads are not allowed to move freely.

In short, if applied as designed, all will be well.

The next step, should this not be sufficient. And in your case, I would highly recommend just doing it as a preventive measure. Apply a Disk Brake Quiet coating to the entire surface of the backing plate. In this case, more is better because the product is designed to absorb high frequency vibration (the root cause of disk brake noise). More material will absorb more vibration.

The last step is to be sure your caliper pistons are moving freely. If they are not, unwanted residual pressure can hold the pad against the rotor and create noise. While not nearly as common as the conditions listed above, this is always a possibility.

 

[Allen42]

...The anti-seize needs to be applied in a VERY THIN coating. Yes, a very small amount of debris may accumulate. But the anti-seize tends to lubricate this as well.
...
Apply a Disk Brake Quiet coating to the entire surface of the backing plate. In this case, more is better because the product is designed to absorb high frequency vibration (the root cause of disk brake noise). More material will absorb more vibration.

As always, thanks Ron. I'm glad you wrote this, as I was under the impression that people used the anti-seize red stuff everywhere, including the back of the backing plate, (between the plate fuzed to the pad, and the removeable clip that clips to the plate, right?)

I will get both anti-seize and some Brake Quiet stuff.

This sounds like a good winter project in a few months, but I'm guessing I have at least six more easily on these. The backs are both at least 3mm thick. (I don't know how you guys check them on the ground.)

I'll also do your "brake seating" procedure after I get them replaced.

 

[Isopedella]

So you are in the "grease the pins" camp. Since you do it annually, maybe that offsets some people's concern about the grease collecting the grime, and making things worse. I'm still undecided which way to go.

Yep. All the way. Preventative Maintenance Package to all my rides. :yikes: In Spades. :yikes: :thumbup:

As far as the brakes are concerned it beats the crap out of a Floating Disc no longer floating and jammed and the machine unrideable and looking for a trailer to get home 3 days ride away or more or fix it on the roadside. Complete no-brainer.

Take it or leave it makes no difference to me. Your choice and your ride.

 

[Allen42]

FWIW, here’s the best two photos I could get of the rear pads.