What reason?
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Brake fluid flush cost - yikes! Does this sound right?
- Thread starter mstella101
- Start date
What reason?
Yes your brake fluid should be changed after two years per manual. Same for most all bikes. I hope all gos well!
Availability, all the reason I need....
Lew L
Well-known member
Higher wet and dry boiling points. DOT 4 is what is called for in the owner's manual but 5.1 is a step up.
mstella101
Member
Thanks to all for all the great info- I have some great questions to ask before any service is done. Once again , but I'll say what has been said many times before- WHAT A GREAT COMMUNITY WE HAVE WITH SPYDERLOVERS AND ALL ITS PEOPLE!
I thought you already had it in for service. Anyway, let us know how things turn out.
mstella101
Member
I left it there and they will call before they do anything- I will ask if the brake flush is necessary and will it include the ABS and BUDS purge.
What makes you think you need new brakes all the way around? Seems to be low mileage for that.
As far as brake fluids go, a simple brake flush is all the maintenance schedule calls for, I believe. No need to do the ABS unless there is something obviously wrong with the fluids.
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BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
Sorry but IMHO if they say you DON"T need brakes I would be surprised ( for reasons other than they are actually worn out ..... Mike :thumbup:
Thanks Lew
shakin_jake
Member
~~~hey copper!, you’re confusing DOT 5.1 with DOT 5. DOT 5.1 is glycol based just like DOT4 & DOT3. DOT 5 is silicone based and not compatible with any of the glycol base DOT brake fluids. DOT 5 was created essentially for the military where they have a lot of their vehicles sitting for years unused. The only real difference between DOT5.1 and DOT4 brake fluids is DOT5.1 has a higher boiling point. That’s it
Just my opinion but I think the best way to look at DOT5.1 is just like when DOT4 appeared on the scene and it had a higher boiling point over DOT3
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
It’s never too late to have a happy childhood
PMK
Active member
Folks, please, and I state this from experience working on race bikes and more, be very careful if you choose to run DOT 5.1 fluid. DOT 5.1 is not the silicone fluid and is compatible with DOT 4.
The concern becomes the DOT 5.1 is a very high performance fluid, and with that the DOT 5.1 requires very frequent intervals of flushing the system and bleeding. Experience has shown DOT 5.1 over time, actually a somewhat short time, will form crystals within the fluid. These crystals will contaminate rubber components by not allowing them to seal correctly. This can result in a complete loss of brake pressure, resulting in a loss of brakes.
When the crystals are discovered, this requires a complete disassembly of all the brake components to remove the crystals. Failing to do this simply prolongs the issues even if the fluid is switched to DOT 4.
Unless absolute race performance is needed, with the flush and bleed of the brakes for each event, I no longer use DOT 5.1 in any of my vehicles.
I fully realize that many of the folks here are very, very frugal and lean towards the least expensive choice on almost every purchase Spyder related. Those that do not can find DOT 4 brake fluids that will nearly match the wet boiling point of DOT 5.1, but it does cost more.
The Spyder brake system, being a single pedal without a separate front brake, even though the brake system is semi not shared, could have serious issues from DOT 5.1. Simply be very careful with your choice of brake fluid used.
DOT 5.1 is a great fluid in many ways, but those are all race bike focused long with race bike maintenance schedule and risks.
The concern becomes the DOT 5.1 is a very high performance fluid, and with that the DOT 5.1 requires very frequent intervals of flushing the system and bleeding. Experience has shown DOT 5.1 over time, actually a somewhat short time, will form crystals within the fluid. These crystals will contaminate rubber components by not allowing them to seal correctly. This can result in a complete loss of brake pressure, resulting in a loss of brakes.
When the crystals are discovered, this requires a complete disassembly of all the brake components to remove the crystals. Failing to do this simply prolongs the issues even if the fluid is switched to DOT 4.
Unless absolute race performance is needed, with the flush and bleed of the brakes for each event, I no longer use DOT 5.1 in any of my vehicles.
I fully realize that many of the folks here are very, very frugal and lean towards the least expensive choice on almost every purchase Spyder related. Those that do not can find DOT 4 brake fluids that will nearly match the wet boiling point of DOT 5.1, but it does cost more.
The Spyder brake system, being a single pedal without a separate front brake, even though the brake system is semi not shared, could have serious issues from DOT 5.1. Simply be very careful with your choice of brake fluid used.
DOT 5.1 is a great fluid in many ways, but those are all race bike focused long with race bike maintenance schedule and risks.
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BajaRon
Well-known member
It is always good to consult the owners manual. A very good place to start.
Most 'Required' service items are minimum spec. for the application. There are almost always better options, which the manufacturer will rarely mention because they don't sell them. Whether or not 'Better' is needed, is up to the owner to decide. This goes for everything from engine oil to brake fluid. I know there are those who believe they are all the same except for marketing hype. But if you have them tested and analyzed, it will lay that theory to rest in a hurry.
Frankly, the Spyder is probably never going to need what 5.1 brake fluid offers. But neither is it going to create any issues. It's a personal choice at that point.
All you need to know about brake fluid is that 4.0 is better than 3.0. 5.1 is better then 4.0. And avoid 5.0 like the plague unless you know what you're doing. They really should have named 5.1 (the new guy on the block) something else because I can already see someone adding 5.0 (which has been around along time) to their system and creating all kinds of problems.
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PMK
Active member
Ron, not sure what your actual experience with DOT 5.1 might be, or more specifically, if you have experience with DOT 5.1 over any amount of calendar months.
My own experience and other mechanics experience with DOT 5.1 is when fresh it works excellent. As the fluid ages, even in a closed system, it crystalizes and causes brake component failure to the cup seals that help generate brake pressure. The seals themselves do not fail, rather the crystals become lodged between the sealing lip and bore of the master cylinder. This bypasses brake fluid allowing the brake pedal or lever to have no resistance.
The cause of the crystallization we never explored, simply reverted back to high performance DOT 4 only.
Would be tragic if someone did use DOT 5.1 and have brake failure at an inopportune time.
FrogmanDave
Active member
Well said sir!
Hi Jake, Ya I cleared that up in post #9. There are things I don't like about 5.1 but it makes no difference it's just my opinion (see post #32, boiling point is subject to brand, and then there is viscosity & compressibility, mixing a little 4 with 5.1 you now have something less then 5.1, Boring stuff) but I just did not want to get in to all that so I stop posting in hopes it got back to the OP. Let Jane use 5.1 that's ok. Most of all don't forget it's 5.1 (like Ron has pointed out) and I hope everyone now knows if you are on the road and need to buy some brake fluid don't get DOT 5. So let turn it back over to the OP.
