Battery connections/Computer glitch.

[trong]

Hello All,
First let me introduce myself. I have been fairly regularly involved on this forum since May of this year after I bought a 2013 RT-L. The Spyder concept is new to me even though I have been riding motorcycles for almost five decades now, first begin with a Honda CL90 and now I have a 2013 Honda CB1100 in my garage along with the Spyder; 14 motorcycles altogether. All Japanese, equally divided between Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha; no Kawasaki though for whatever reasons. I have performed maintenance procedures on all my motorcycles and automobiles, from Japanese to German, as well as some small and medium size repairs. I guess I can proudly call myself a verifiable/certifiable backyard mechanic. I am also very well educated in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering with decades of experience in both fields.
Why the long introduction you ask. I just want to share some of my knowledge every so often whenever I can and along the way I hope that I won't offend anybody. BTW, I have a somewhat weird sense of humor too.
With that said, I read these threads and my conclusion is that these Spyders are very well designed and made. Of course, bad designs and bad manufacturing happen. But I do not see lots of mechanical failures on these machines; most complains I have seen are CEL lights up, Brake light lights up and other idiot lights light up for no reason. Most members would recommend check the battery connections or better yet replace the battery if it's more than 4 years old. Yes I agree with most of these ideas. The Spyder RT-L has 45 miles when I bought it. Yes 45 miles and it was in brand new condition except for flat spots on all the tires, I replaced them all with what you guys recommend using Federal and Kumho tires. The battery was working fine but I'm not going to take any chances with a 7 years old battery, I replaced with a Yuasa. I really appreciate the ideas and suggestions from the members on this forum. I have yet experienced problems with random lights up on the dash, knock on oak.
I thought about the Spyder electrical system and then German cars that I have, most of them have a backup battery, except the Crossfire which is a Mercedes-Benz with Chrysler badge. All of them either has a little lead-acid or a lithium battery for backup. My guess is they use that backup battery to keep the supplied power at constant to computers. We all know that electronics don't like power fluctuation, and on the automobiles or motorcycles the power fluctuation is inevitable, hence the backup batteries. I guess most of you have heard the term FRED which stands for Freaking Ridiculous Electronic Devices. Those cars have specific posts to charge the battery, you don't clamp the charger directly on the main battery the old fashion way. Some of you already know that.
Now what if we try to install a backup battery on the Spyder just like those cars have. The back up battery will not be install parallel with the main battery but on a circuit that it can supply the power to the computers and get charged with engine running.
Any thoughts guys? Peter?
Cheers and happy ryding.
(The weather seems to get cooler here in northern Utah.)

 

[PMK]

Yes viable, any ideas or details on how to isolate the backup battery and not truly parallel the main battery? Seems you would need some type of isolated bus circuit with the backup feeding that bus. As for isolating, a multiple diode bank to reduce voltage drop and increase amp capacity?

 

[JayBros]

I'm not an engineer, nor one of the sharper knives in the drawer, but based on my Spyder, with going on seven years of use and 67K+ miles of flawless performance, I fail to see a need, other than for the electrical challenge of doing it. With the exception of when my first battery was dying, and I knew it was but let it go to the point where it would not crank the engine the electrical system, computers and all, has given me zero problems . Yes, there seem to be a goodly number of reported situations wherein checking the cleanliness and tightness of the battery terminals solves a reported problem, but terminal checks are a part of routine preventive maintenance. We skip them at our own peril.

 

[trong]

Yes viable, any ideas or details on how to isolate the backup battery and not truly parallel the main battery? Seems you would need some type of isolated bus circuit with the backup feeding that bus. As for isolating, a multiple diode bank to reduce voltage drop and increase amp capacity?

Thanks PMK, that is one idea. I have yet seen the electrical diagram of any Spyder so at this point I'm not sure where electrically to tie the backup battery to. Working on the subject though.

 

[KX5062]

A couple of thoughts.

I believe the Spyder is like many, if not most, modern motorcycles uses the battery to power the bike and not just start the bike. The alternator sends the electricity to the battery using it to help cushion the power spikes.

Secondly, it seems like you're maybe over thinking it. Why not just carry a jumper battery pack? The Spyder can be safely jumped started. The new units are now cheap, super small and light weight.

https://www.amazon.com/NEXPOW-Batte...d=1598536590&sprefix=battery+j,aps,242&sr=8-5

 

[Bluetrees]

Trong,
I have a boating background and would like to suggest you research Blue Sea Systems and their automatic charging relays.

On boats typically there are two 12v batteries referred to as "battery banks", one being the starter battery and the other being the "house" battery that would power your radar, chartplotter (GPS), and other voltage sensitive electronics.

On the link above there is an Add A Battery kit with relay. Look at the product diagram. When you start the sensitive "house" devices are isolated from current transients.
Under normal conditions after the start both batteries are charged from the alternator.

 

[PMK]

Trong,
I have a boating background and would like to suggest you research Blue Sea Systems and their automatic charging relays.

On boats typically there are two 12v batteries referred to as "battery banks", one being the starter battery and the other being the "house" battery that would power your radar, chartplotter (GPS), and other voltage sensitive electronics.

On the link above there is an Add A Battery kit with relay. Look at the product diagram. When you start the sensitive "house" devices are isolated from current transients.
Under normal conditions after the start both batteries are charged from the alternator.

Avoiding the marine route, I have installed in our van with dual batteries a specialized type isolation relay. This could easily accomplish the task and is automated.

 

[PMK]

A couple of thoughts.

I believe the Spyder is like many, if not most, modern motorcycles uses the battery to power the bike and not just start the bike. The alternator sends the electricity to the battery using it to help cushion the power spikes.

Secondly, it seems like you're maybe over thinking it. Why not just carry a jumper battery pack? The Spyder can be safely jumped started. The new units are now cheap, super small and light weight.

https://www.amazon.com/NEXPOW-Batte...d=1598536590&sprefix=battery+j,aps,242&sr=8-5

What you say is true, but overlooks that the ECU and more importantly the instrument panel see a voltage drop and spike during each start. Doing as he suggested would buffer the expensive electronic away from the starters amp draw and reduction in voltage, followed by an immediate burst once the alternator comes on line. Yes the battery does react as a damper of sorts, but when failing the damping ability is about nil. The #2 battery could be very small since it would not be used to actually crank the starter motor.

 

[JayBros]

Does the Spyder electrical system not have protection for the ECU and perhaps the instrument panel to prevent damage during the voltage drop at starting? I have no idea.

I let my original battery die on the road to test my Rugged Geek which worked as advertised. I actually spent more time in a WallyWorld parking lot explaining to curious but helpful folks what I was doing with the jump pack than actually jump starting the bike.

 

[PMK]

Does the Spyder electrical system not have protection for the ECU and perhaps the instrument panel to prevent damage during the voltage drop at starting? I have no idea.

I let my original battery die on the road to test my Rugged Geek which worked as advertised. I actually spent more time in a WallyWorld parking lot explaining to curious but helpful folks what I was doing with the jump pack than actually jump starting the bike.

Likely it has no protection as when witnessing a dead battery, the screen blacks out, meaning it has insufficient operating voltage.

 

[JayBros]

Yeah, when my battery died things went completely south on the display with the second attempt to start. On the first attempt there was a lot of gibberish that went across the screen but the battery had only enough juice to activate the starter solenoid. The second time when I turned on the key the screen was all black.

Has anyone heard reported ECUs that for some reason refused to function when the rest of the electrical system appeared to be fine?

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks PMK, that is one idea. I have yet seen the electrical diagram of any Spyder so at this point I'm not sure where electrically to tie the backup battery to. Working on the subject though.

The cluster is powered full time by a connection to the main power bus. The ECM is powered from the main power bus through the ignition key. Other processors are powered through relays activated by the ECM. You would have to insert diodes into those power leads to prevent the backup battery backfeeding the main battery when the main battery voltage is below that of the BU battery.

Are you sure the BU battery in German cars is there to temper the voltage seen by the computers, and not just to keep the computers powered whenever the main battery is low voltage or dead? The latter would be to keep owners happy by not having to reset all the electronics after a battery problem.

 

[trong]

Are you sure the BU battery in German cars is there to temper the voltage seen by the computers, and not just to keep the computers powered whenever the main battery is low voltage or dead? The latter would be to keep owners happy by not having to reset all the electronics after a battery problem.

I think the backup battery does both those mentioned. I few times have to replace the main battery and the radio settings and climate settings stay put, did not have to play with radio station, clock, and such.