Bad Day For Big Red (Update 1)

[Chasinsparks]

Last week I posted about my RT leaving me stranded and promised an update.

I was told yesterday that the teeth on the front pulley were gone, I asked what would have caused that and was told an over tighten belt. And that they had put in a warranty claim with BRP. I speculate but don't know yet that BRP will fire back that it is not their problem the belt is over tighten. But here is where it gets interesting just 200 miles ago when the parking brake switch went out I had the dealer go ahead and do the first service event though it only had 1447 miles on it (got it done before winter so I could ride longer this season) during that inspection they claimed to have inspected and adjusted the belt and reclocked the rear.

So i'm preparing myself for a battle of who is responsible for this and who is going to pony up the bucks to get the bike back on the road.

I often wonder why so many put vibration dampers, as I never felt any vibration at all and did not really see the need for one. If this is truly what caused the problem an over tighten belt then explains why I did not have any vibration.

 

[Saluda]

Good luck.

 

[trikermutha]

How could they tell the belt was over tightened if the pulley teeth were all torn up? Or was it still so tight after they found the problem. Did they put a tension meter on it too?

Isn't there screws that hold the pulley too?

 

[Chasinsparks]

I'm trying to get better answers too. When I was stuck on the side of the road the first thing I check was the belt and pulley. It all looked good to me but again it was getting dark and I could only see with my phone flash light. Hopefully I get more details today.

How could they tell the belt was over tightened if the pulley teeth were all torn up? Or was it still so tight after they found the problem. Did they put a tension meter on it too?

Isn't there screws that hold the pulley too?

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Last week I posted about my RT leaving me stranded and promised an update.

I was told yesterday that the teeth on the front pulley were gone, I asked what would have caused that and was told an over tighten belt. And that they had put in a warranty claim with BRP. I speculate but don't know yet that BRP will fire back that it is not their problem the belt is over tighten. But here is where it gets interesting just 200 miles ago when the parking brake switch went out I had the dealer go ahead and do the first service event though it only had 1447 miles on it (got it done before winter so I could ride longer this season) during that inspection they claimed to have inspected and adjusted the belt and reclocked the rear.

So i'm preparing myself for a battle of who is responsible for this and who is going to pony up the bucks to get the bike back on the road.

I often wonder why so many put vibration dampers, as I never felt any vibration at all and did not really see the need for one. If this is truly what caused the problem an over tighten belt then explains why I did not have any vibration.

I have had belts come in that the dealer had tightened upwards toward 250#'s. With a Vibration Damper many of us are able to drop that down to 160#'s and still enjoy no vibration. I have been a firm believer that BRP keeps the belt too tight in my opinion. They have dropped the guideline down once or twice but I think it is still too high.
Bottom line, even they don't have test data on the 1330 setup for very long to see what the higher tension will do.
Good luck, you shouldn't have to worry about them covering it since the dealer had adjusted it. Sounds like someone got overeager on the tension.
And just to clarify, (you might want to check on this) it was the belt side that grenaded, right? Because if it was the inside or splines, that has happened to quite a few people. Guy on Facebook was getting ready to replace his for the third time the other day. And, to my limited knowledge, I haven't heard of the belt side going South before.

 

[trikermutha]

I'm trying to get better answers too. When I was stuck on the side of the road the first thing I check was the belt and pulley. It all looked good to me but again it was getting dark and I could only see with my phone flash light. Hopefully I get more details today.

Well good luck. Hope they find the problem soon and get you back on the road.

 

[jcthorne]

I doubt battle will be necessary. BRP has been good about the pulley repairs even if they have yet to determine the underlying cause.

 

[Easy Rider]

Last week I posted about my RT leaving me stranded and promised an update.

It is MUCH better to post updates like this by adding on to the original thread.
PLEASE.

 

[Chupaca]

Interesting....

In the early models they were having issues with the bearings both rear wheel and countershaft going out. They found that the tension was causing the problem and they lowered it. When over tightened you get less vibrations or you would only feel it at very high speeds. They have since changed the tension on different models to where it is confusing as the belt size has also changed in length on the F3's. During all this I did not see them mention the sprockets being damaged but would have them check the bearing at the same time....:thumbup:

 

[Yazz]

Now you have...

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28032&d=1307666285

No rock damage.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Now you have...

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28032&d=1307666285

No rock damage.

The OP was talking about his sprocket, not the belt. I've seen belts schred. Was talking about the outer ribs of the sprocket. I'm betting that it is actually the inner splines...

He says, "teeth on the front sprocket". Guess it could have shredded the belt.....

 

[Chasinsparks]

Thanks for the info, I have spent in incredible amount of time on your site watching and learning your product. As far as I'm being told which I plan to ride out tomorrow and take a look for myself they are say the belt side but as I stated that was the first thing I looked at an all seemed well to me not sure if you checked out my video of the noise it was making, but when it happen I layed in the ground and had my wife try to move the Spyder, I would thinks if it were on the belt side that the pulley would have still spun inside the belt and that did not happen at all.

I have had belts come in that the dealer had tightened upwards toward 250#'s. With a Vibration Damper many of us are able to drop that down to 160#'s and still enjoy no vibration. I have been a firm believer that BRP keeps the belt too tight in my opinion. They have dropped the guideline down once or twice but I think it is still too high.
Bottom line, even they don't have test data on the 1330 setup for very long to see what the higher tension will do.
Good luck, you shouldn't have to worry about them covering it since the dealer had adjusted it. Sounds like someone got overeager on the tension.
And just to clarify, (you might want to check on this) it was the belt side that grenaded, right? Because if it was the inside or splines, that has happened to quite a few people. Guy on Facebook was getting ready to replace his for the third time the other day. And, to my limited knowledge, I haven't heard of the belt side going South before.

 

[Chasinsparks]

NOTED!

It is MUCH better to post updates like this by adding on to the original thread.
PLEASE.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Thanks for the info, I have spent in incredible amount of time on your site watching and learning your product. As far as I'm being told which I plan to ride out tomorrow and take a look for myself they are say the belt side but as I stated that was the first thing I looked at an all seemed well to me not sure if you checked out my video of the noise it was making, but when it happen I layed in the ground and had my wife try to move the Spyder, I would thinks if it were on the belt side that the pulley would have still spun inside the belt and that did not happen at all.

The one that I was personally involved in that failed last year the sprocket was stationary and the shaft bolt spun since the inner splines on the sprockets were gone. Be interesting what you find. Also, was there any red rust on the sprocket when you checked it? That is a sure inner sprocket failure.

 

[Chasinsparks]

Update on findings

Ok as I suspected the guy I spoke to on the phone was not on his game, and did not know what the hello he was talking about I just completed a 4 hour round trip to see for myself and the tech that is actually working on the bike took me out and showed me.

As we suspected it is a failure of the front drive sprocket inner splines, the splines on the input shaft look perfectly fine.

The pictures are not the best but you can see the inside is pretty smooth.

 

[Freddy]

In the early models they were having issues with the bearings both rear wheel and countershaft going out. They found that the tension was causing the problem and they lowered it. When over tightened you get less vibrations or you would only feel it at very high speeds. They have since changed the tension on different models to where it is confusing as the belt size has also changed in length on the F3's. During all this I did not see them mention the sprockets being damaged but would have them check the bearing at the same time....:thumbup:

Not so regarding countershaft bearing failures - some shaft splines, yes. The cause was 'inadequate clamping force' of the pulley retaining bolt upon assembly, as detailed that the service bulletin BRP issued at the time. If the bearing fails, a tell-tale oil leak from the seal will be evident. I've not seen reports of such.
:cheers:

C/sparks, perhaps you haven't seen this thread yet.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?108841-F3-Front-Sprocket-Inspection

 

[Chasinsparks]

Thanks for the link. not looking good when my bike only has 1642 miles on don't give much confidence in going for a long trip.

Not so regarding countershaft bearing failures - some shaft splines, yes. The cause was 'inadequate clamping force' of the pulley retaining bolt upon assembly, as detailed that the service bulletin BRP issued at the time. If the bearing fails, a tell-tale oil leak from the seal will be evident. I've not seen reports of such.
:cheers:

C/sparks, perhaps you haven't seen this thread yet.

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?108841-F3-Front-Sprocket-Inspection

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Ok as I suspected the guy I spoke to on the phone was not on his game, and did not know what the hello he was talking about I just completed a 4 hour round trip to see for myself and the tech that is actually working on the bike took me out and showed me.

As we suspected it is a failure of the front drive sprocket inner splines, the splines on the input shaft look perfectly fine.

The pictures are not the best but you can see the inside is pretty smooth.

View attachment 161905View attachment 161906View attachment 161907

I suspected that was the cause. Typical. Once it's replaced you should occasionally look for the red rust on the surface. If you go into the F3 section, you will find a monster amount of data (15 plus pages worth) that I started after Maggie Valley....

Don't worry about being covered. You are gold with this type failure. And IMHO, belt tension probably had nothing to do with this.

 

[trikermutha]

:agree: warranty will cover this and it should have not happened at all IMO. At 1700 miles the bike is still brand new.

Wonder if the bolt was tight before they took it apart ?

 

[youngers]

WOW ! relief i bet

Thanks for the link. not looking good when my bike only has 1642 miles on don't give much confidence in going for a long trip.

hey guy , that long trip thing you were afraid of , -------> hahahaha when you get ` lil red ` back , going around the block will be " nervous nelly " for sure ... ray: I will guess about 1 or 2 weeks you will be comfortable on the cycle again and go further out ! what a good place for the splines to give out , instead of inside the engine where they have to really get into the guts of the big boy , plus the cost of surgery ... glad it wasn`t super bad for you brother! just relax and try to enjoy the feel again .... p.s. let the wife drive you tear stuff up :roflblack: ( o.k. a little fun at your expense happy riding as soon as possible guy )