Australia - RT's - Has anyone used Xenon Bulbs in RT Low Beam

[askitee]

I am on day two of my 75k service and spent some time talking to the parts guys about the low beams in the RTL. We discussed the issues with the low beams and LED's not solving all issues with the low beams. We got to talking about Xenon's

Has anyone used Xenon bulbs in their RT's?
Do you feel they discolored the lenses faster than Halogen \?
Did the Xenon's offer any better illumination of the road and surrounds?

 

[BertRemington]

Let's go big

askitee -- by Xenon do you mean HID?

Be that as it may I suggest 35W 5500/6500K HIDs as your lighting solution. I believe AUS is the same as CAN low beams being down by the frunk rather than by the windshield using a Hi/Lo shutter.

If so, I'm pretty sure the low beam bulb is a 35W H8 incandescent.

You do not want to exceed that wattage from a heat perspective to avoid damage to your plastic lens.

You want a high-quality HID that has superior CANBUS protection. I'm using this https://www.amazon.com/DDM-Tuning-Premium-Ballasts-Hi-Output/dp/B01AJ11Z6W/ for my USA HB3 bulbs (shutter-style headlights near windshield) without any CANBUS problems even with the right-hand ballast next to the DLC (BUDS interface).

Apparently H11, H9, H16 (L-Shaped) are equivalent to the H8 but I suggest you confirm that with your HID vendor.

This is not a simple installation. You will probably have to mount the various components in opportunistic locations. You may have to extend the power cables (3-position AMP SuperSeal 1.5mm Pin1 GY/BG headlight Pin2 BK ground Pin3 GY/GN foglight) or the bulb connectors (available from vendor). Plan on removing the frunk for access. If you decide on this approach I have some pictures that might help.

WRT performance, from the comments of our Canadian members anything would be an improvement. The HID light source is constrained just like the incandescent light source and is a good match for projector lenses. So light patterns should be similar just much brighter.

Warning: HIDs have warmup time of a few seconds. If you will be shifting from Lo-Hi-Lo often, you will want to have an overlap circuit where both beams are on. This is easy to construct but here's where we get innovative. A 5-second delay relay https://www.amazon.com/Timer-Delay-Relay-Cycling-Trigger will be needed to hold the Hi beam on while the Lo beam is reaching operating temperature.

==========

As an alternative, install H8 LEDs as low beams and then add auxiliary lights using the foglight circuit. Most of the wiring is already in place, you just need to make some SuperSeal connector jumpers and add an illuminated SPST switch.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I am on day two of my 75k service and spent some time talking to the parts guys about the low beams in the RTL. We discussed the issues with the low beams and LED's not solving all issues with the low beams. We got to talking about Xenon's

Has anyone used Xenon bulbs in their RT's?
Do you feel they discolored the lenses faster than Halogen \?
Did the Xenon's offer any better illumination of the road and surrounds?

If you have never seen video's of what DENALI LED's can do, I suggest you look for them.... I have a pair of D-2's, and can't imagine needing any more light...... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

:agree: Wiv wot they says! DO NOT put higher wattage filament type globes of any sort in those light assemblies, you WILL get fogging/hazing of the outer lens cover, and it's on the INSIDE, so there's no way to remove it short of pulling the assemblies completely apart to re-finish them, and even if you do that, you'll still get the same problem re-occurring in a few months anyway! Your only real choice to get 'better' light out of that lower assembly (where our Low Beam is, same as for the rest of the World except the US! ) or really from any of these placcy light assemblies is to fit quality LED's... :banghead:

BUT, if you really want better Low AND High beam lights, then pull the side covers off & the upper headlights out, identify/look at the plugs/fittings on the back of the High beam lights - they're standard 3 wire headlight fittings, but only 2 wires are being used! So it's fairly easy extend the Low beam wiring up to go into that plug/fitting and install a standard twin filament 55/60W headlight globe in each of the upper assemblies so you've got both High and Low beams in those upper fittings (leave a quick disconnect in the line to allow easy removal of the frunk & its integrated lower lights); and if you want, you can even keep the Lower fittings working as Day-time Running Lights or add a switch to make them Fog Lights! Best of both worlds, and waaayyy more useable/useful light for both Low and High Beams if you keep all 4 filaments lit for High Beam!! hyea:

The wiring is fairly straight-forward, albeit just a bit fiddly; and it's only if you start playing around with when each filament &/or globe comes on that things get a little complex, but it shouldn't be too hard to work out... I've done it a few times now!

 

[BertRemington]

Peter -- your solution is the far out alternative I originally proposed and then deleted in favor of auxiliary lights, one of my concerns being the Low beam pattern from a projector lens designed to use a shutter to shape the Low beam pattern. You also get more heat headroom as the lens is designed to support 60W bulbs. I again suggest building jumper cables using SuperSeal connectors to eliminate PosiTaps etc. With the proper tools the SS connectors are easy to assemble or disassemble to move wires from one position to another. Sounds like you've found the best solution.

WRT fog light circuit, am I correct the wiring is already in place for the console switch and only the switch itself needs to be installed?

 

[Peteoz]

WRT fog light circuit, am I correct the wiring is already in place for the console switch and only the switch itself needs to be installed?

Bert, just on the above, our Aussie design rules mandate that additional fog lights (we call them driving lights out here) must have their own switch, but can only be activated via that switch when high beam is in operation, so they also need a trigger from the high beam wiring.

Pete

 

[BertRemington]

Pete -- yep I knew that AUS rule for driving lights. I was kinda sloppy in my answer. Several solutions depending on the rigor of your roadworthiness inspections. Here's one:

Inspection mode (switch off): Lo beam is LED H8s down by frunk; and Hi beam is LED ** bulbs by windshield on Hi beam circuit

Riding mode (switch on): Lo beam is LED ** bulbs by windshield on Lo beam circuit; Hi beam is LED ** bulbs by windshield on Hi beam circuit; and supplemental lighting is LED H8s down by frunk

While the foglight wiring is for an SPST switch, you can install a SPDT switch and hope the inspector doesn't test both positions. But I have a workaround for that occasion too.

My point is there is a lighting solution within the current projector lens form factor without mounting additional lights. Yeah it will need some fussing with connectors and relays but if you're willing to build the cables you will have a solution that can be easily returned to standard operation by simply unplugging them and replugging the original connectors.

** Peter Aawen didn't identify the Hi/Lo dual beam bulb replacing the Hi beam only HB3.

BTW I'd be a bit nervous running the both circuits of the dual beam bulb concurrently unless it was fan cooled and even then I'd only be a bit less nervous. If the bulb overheats the result will probably total bulb failure.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Bert, just on the above, our Aussie design rules mandate that additional fog lights (we call them driving lights out here) must have their own switch, but can only be activated via that switch when high beam is in operation, so they also need a trigger from the high beam wiring.

Pete

You can run low wattage Fog Lights in the same manner only paired with Lo-beam Pete (I think it's a 35w maximum, but haven't checked for a while... pps And you can also run 'Daytime Running Lights' with a wattage limitation too, only they should turn OFF if either your Lo or Hi beam lights go ON!! (altho as I'm sure you already know, heaps of wannabe boy racers in their cars don't limit the wattage or turn off like they should tho! :sour: )

Btw, Driving or Spot Lights don't have that wattage limitation, 'Driving' being the lights with a spread beam pattern & Spot lights (obviously ) being those with a long distance 'spot' beam pattern having little light spread onto the verges - but as you mentioned, those Driving or Spot Lights and in fact ANY forward facing Main or Aux Lights will need to have their own trigger switch that is meant to work to activate them only when the appropriate main beam is on (or off, as applicable!!) :lecturef_smilie:

As for your Projector Lens concern Bert, I don't know if we get different P/Lenses than you do over there (they don't appear to have any different part numbers tho??) or maybe it's just that BRP's P/lenses AREN'T actually 'designed' as such to work with those shutters that you lot get in the USA, but that's just the way your country has decided to satisfy whatever odd law/rule you have that resulted in those shutters?? :dontknow: But here in Oz, the P/Lens itself is definitely a Projector Lens, but as far as I (and some others who are far more technical & authoritative than I - my local Roads & Traffic Compliance Inspectors ) can work out, there's no 'shaping' of the beam pattern as such built into the lens - so the beam pattern output all comes back to the positioning, 'clocking', and the design of the light source... And that means that a really bright Lo-beam globe should work really well to resolve Askitee's dim/useless Lo-beam issues, except for that bloody heat issue with the poly lens cover :banghead: And that's why the better quality LED's work so well - low heat output along with lotsa lumens! Similarly, our Hi-beam P/lenses in the upper light assembly's work in the same way, it's the positioning, 'clocking', and design of the light source that determines the output beam pattern - the Upper assembly's work really well and provide the necessary beam patterns when a standard Hi-Lo Filament or HID Globe is fitted, as well as when quality LED's designed to work as Hi-Lo lights are fitted too! hyea:

Just Sayin' :cheers:

Ps: I can't remember exactly which Hi-Lo globes went in, it was just too long ago - but they were readily available. I took in the globe that came out of the upper light assembly & got a couple of 55/60w equivalents... and then later got JB HiFi LED equivalents.

 

[SkipH]

About 20 years ago I had a Kawasaki Concours that I installed HID lights on crash bars I made, with those lights I could see jack rabbits 1/4 mile up the road getting ready to commit suicide. One trip across country I switched off the high beams to pass a truck and then turned them on and after I did the CB came alive and the trucker said " I'd rather be following you then have you behind me."
The color of these HID's was daylight and that was what it was like when running both in this light sucking desert.
I even has several cars flash me when they were miles away and one car was 8 miles away on a straight stretch of road here in Nevada, Not kidding.
I still have them.

 

[askitee]

Hi guys some very good input on this topic.

To expand:

• I have OEM HB3 bulbs (actually Lexus OEM OSRAM HB3 - they were better than the Can-Am Osram HB3's) in the low beams (either side of the frunk in Australia)
• Hi Beams (under the windscreen) are PIA ??? they have a 5 deg tilt in the filament and made a significant difference to the Hi Beams
• I have two Baja Designs S2 Pro Combos on the front under the mirrors mounted on the air deflector mounts (when these are on you would not know if the headlights on the RT turned off - they absolutely flood everywhere with light - but for the price I'd expect them to.)
• I'm on my second set of low beam lenses heading for my third
• Our town is Regional Highway Patrol HQ. you'll see why that's relevant

askitee -- by Xenon do you mean HID?

Be that as it may I suggest 35W 5500/6500K HIDs as your lighting solution. I believe AUS is the same as CAN low beams being down by the frunk rather than by the windshield using a Hi/Lo shutter.......

Thanks Bert - " I believe AUS is the same as CAN low beams being down by the frunk rather than by the windshield using a Hi/Lo shutter" I see then you share our pain - is it wrong to want to kick the guy/s who decided this. I am on my 2nd set of Low Beam lenses, headed for the 3rd set and you hit the nail on the head with your answer about the heat and impact on the lenses of the HID's. I am keen/optimistic on your suggestion of the 35W HID's

If you have never seen video's of what DENALI LED's can do, I suggest you look for them.... I have a pair of D-2's, and can't imagine needing any more light...... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

Thanks Mike, I have approx $1200 worth of LED's from JWSPeaker, Philips, Narva... some increased the lighting marginally. I might ask around if anyone has used them here.

:agree: Wiv wot they says! DO NOT put higher wattage filament type globes of any sort in those light assemblies, you WILL get fogging/hazing of the outer lens cover, ....:

Thanks Peter, the issue is only low beam. With the S2 Pro's you would not know the hi/low beams were on. I am trying to avoid making the situation with the Lenses worse then they already are.


As others have probably seen me state here in previous posts, my car takes the same bulbs as Spyder - the when any of the globes (LED/Halogen) are fitted to it the output is better for all.

I do like the idea of some aux lights down low to help with the road verge + small increase in distance + better illumination without annoying oncoming traffic - but - here in Hwy Patrol HQ if we have them on with traffic approaching they'll book us, it seems in NSW at least we are not supposed to use them unless conditions require it.

Has anyone smuggled lenses from the US? I assume the shutter system just activates when the Hi Beam circuit goes live and drops it - would it work here in AU? A look at the wiring diagram from the BRP manual suggests it might

 

[BertRemington]

Need more data

askitee -- your running HB3 in the lower (Lo beam) lights is kinda puzzling because mine are H8 (foglight). So I'm now going to do a deep dive on bulb interchange, specifically base form factor.

Meanwhile don't put more than a 35W bulb of any type (incandescent, HID, LED) in your lower lights. The outer lens is too close to the bulb for proper heat dissipation. But I guess you already know this.

Tell us more about the inspection thingy. Is it periodic, say annually? Is it episodic, like when you get stopped for speeding? Do they make you operate all the switches and buttons?

WRT to the shutter lenses, you still have effectively the same solution I proposed. That is, if Hi/Lo beam shutter lenses will pass inspection, then so will the non-shutter lens solution Peter and I proposed.

So step back a bit and realize we are solving two problems concurrently:

* how to obtain improved lighting without damaging lenses
* how to keep law enforcement unaware of our improvement

So we're looking for the overlap in the Venn diagram. I know it's there, just need more data.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I believe AUS is the same as CAN low beams being down by the frunk rather than by the windshield using a Hi/Lo shutter.

Nope. The wiring diagram shows the options as either "CE only" or "Can/US only".

 

[BertRemington]

IMS -- it appears to me that BRP used the same wiring harness backbone for all countries and then inserted country specific adaptations at entry/exit points. An example exit point is the lamp-side three position connector for the low beam/foglight connectors. For AUS, pins 1 and 2 are used. For US, pin 3 and 2 are used. The chassis-side pinout is the same for both countries. To change the lamp from AUS to US configuration simply move the pin 1 wire to pin 3, quite easy to do with SuperSeal connectors (they are about as easy to disassemble as assemble). There's a tricky jumper in the upper headlight circuit but having been in that neighborhood I think I know the wire referred to in service manual.

We know Peter Aawen's solution will work. I just want to make it better without attracting law enforcement interest.

 

[askitee]

I came across these while fumbling around in some old favourites and they look promising, though they aren't HID, they are LED and the post that holds the LED appears offset.

https://www.stedi.com.au/project-hb3-led-projector-head-light-conversion-kit.html

They are supposedly suited to Projector style Lights and it seems the LED post is offset.

Has anyone tried them in the RT's (Australian model)