ATGATT on Spyder = PTGATT?

[johnsimion]

Lew, if they had hit you, how would safety gear have mitigated the injury, do you think?

As another ATGATT wearer, I'll answer that because I don't go out without Kevlar jeans with knee armor, a mesh jacket with shoulder, back and elbow armor, gloves and a full-face helmet. How would this help if I was hit? If I was hit, the most likely result is that I would be thrown from the Spyder where I might land on my knees, shoulder, back, elbow, head or chin. And, when I land, I might yet slide. I would prefer to have the armor absorb that impact rather than my body. I got my Spyder to enjoy, not to see how big my hospital bills could be or to end up as a vegetable. I think that's enough reason to wear ATGATT. Pete, you and I agree on many things. This is not one of them.

 

[UtahPete]

As another ATGATT wearer, I'll answer that because I don't go out without Kevlar jeans with knee armor, a mesh jacket with shoulder, back and elbow armor, gloves and a full-face helmet. How would this help if I was hit? If I was hit, the most likely result is that I would be thrown from the Spyder where I might land on my knees, shoulder, back, elbow, head or chin. And, when I land, I might yet slide. I would prefer to have the armor absorb that impact rather than my body. I got my Spyder to enjoy, not to see how big my hospital bills could be or to end up as a vegetable. I think that's enough reason to wear ATGATT. Pete, you and I agree on many things. This is not one of them.

Actually, we do agree, John; each person should do what they most feel comfortable with. We just evaluate risk differently.

What I appreciate about your response is that you explain the reasoning that goes into your decision.

 

[wyliec]

Exactly. How about musculoskeletal injuries?

I ended up with blood poisoning. If you don’t think that can kill you, think again. I crashed and ended up with a cut of my wrist; I was wearing a shirt. I cleaned and bandaged the area. The very next day we were playing poker, and someone noticed the red lines going up from my wrist; he said once those red lines hit your heart, you’ll die, from blood poisoning. I went to the ER, and found out he was right. I was treated and everything turned out okay. If I’d have been wearing a jacket, that may or may not have happened. The wrist is a musculoskeletal joint.

I was just answering your question; not trying to take the side of gearing up or not.

 

[UtahPete]

I ended up with blood poisoning. If you don’t think that can kill you, think again. I crashed and ended up with a cut of my wrist; I was wearing a shirt. I cleaned and bandaged the area. The very next day we were playing poker, and someone noticed the red lines going up from my wrist; he said once those red lines hit your heart, you’ll die, from blood poisoning. I went to the ER, and found out he was right. I was treated and everything turned out okay. If I’d have been wearing a jacket, that may or may not have happened. The wrist is a musculoskeletal joint.

I was just answering your question; not trying to take the side of gearing up or not.

That's an interesting anecdote. Can you describe the crash a little, to put things into context for us? Thanks.

 

[wyliec]

I don't consider it a slide, as much as a scrape, and I ended up in crush stone. The person I was riding with was on my left, and he took a right, and his back wheel hit my fork, if I remember right; I was on 2 wheels then, and I had extended forks. This was quite awhile ago. Even if you're on a spyder and come off, the same thing could happen.

Remember, I'm kept in business by people having accidents.

 

[UtahPete]

I don't consider it a slide, as much as a scrape. The person I was riding with was on my left, and he took a right, and his back wheel hit my fork, if I remember right; I was on 2 wheels then, and I had extended forks. This was quite awhile ago. Even if you're on a spyder and come off, the same thing could happen.

Remember, I'm kept in business by people having accidents.

Okay, that helps understand the scenario. Thanks.

 

[ARtraveler]

Been a good discussion. Over 200 people have looked at this one so far. (see the list if you care to scroll below this section).

 

[SpyderAnn01]

When I get in my car I don’t plan on wrecking but I still wear my seatbelt. Likewise on the Spyder, if you get in a wreck you better be dressed appropriately

 

[remus]

I live in Tucson AZ. temps now are typically 100+. I wear all the gear. here in arizona there is no requirement to wear any of the gear. but if you are injured in an accident and it goes to court the judge can and does adjust the settlement based on how injured you would have been had you been wearing gear. I think it's just better to not give any opponent ammunition to fight with.

 

[Ready2Retire]

I live in Tucson AZ. temps now are typically 100+. I wear all the gear. here in arizona there is no requirement to wear any of the gear. but if you are injured in an accident and it goes to court the judge can and does adjust the settlement based on how injured you would have been had you been wearing gear. I think it's just better to not give any opponent ammunition to fight with.

This is called "Modified Comparative Negligence" and is typically codified in your state statutes. If the judge or jury finds you were >50% responsible for your own injuries, your judgement could be reduced to zero.

John

 

[VStarRider]

Thanks for all of the replies. I would now like to ask you about how often you change your oil, what oil you use, what tires you use, and who you are EDIT POST :thumbup:.

Kidding.

When I get on the Spyder, I wear most of the gear I wear on my Wing - honestly, the only thing missing is the armored jacket. Instead, I wear a TekVest. That will protect my ribs and organs from a severe impact, front or rear. The only thing exposed are elbows and wrists.

Good point made that a slide is not isolated to just a two-wheeled spill, low or high side. If you get thrown from a Spyder, you will likely grease the pavement for a little bit.

 

[Northofthesix]

All the Gear. ALL the time.

I went down on a Yamaha 1300 many years ago in a light drizzle, doing about 35mph, 6 blocks from my house ... I had only owned the bike a week and was also a fairly inexperienced rider... bike hit some oil on the ties at a railway crossing and slid out from under me. I was fully geared ... my jacket and chaps were write offs (as was the bike) and my helmet had spider web cracks on the inside... 4 cracked ribs, a cracked shoulder and a concussion, but I always imagine what it would have been like if my skull had cracked like the helmet, or my skin sanded off like the leather on my jacket. Always fully geared up every ride since.

Last summer, I was riding my Yamaha Venture with buddies through Newfoundland when we came to a gorgeous harbour and stopped to take pics. Stopped and parked the bike, took gloves off so I could dig my camera out of my coat pocket and started to get off the bike; my foot caught on the seat and the bike came tumbling over. I jumped out of the way and landed hands first in sharp crushed rock of the harbourfront. Ripped both palms wide open. 300 miles from the nearest hospital, which I drove to the next day for treatment and a tetanus shot. The result was me selling the Venture and buying my RT, reasoning even I would have a hard time pulling it over on me when I park!!

ALL THE GEAR, ALL THE TIME

 

[SportsterDoc]

I went on a 20 mile errand for my wife, this afternoon.
Not wanting to switch to a long sleeve T shirt, I applied sun screen to my arms and rode with short sleeve T. A long sleeve T would have been cooler!

Did use earplugs, under my helmet and wore gloves.
Wranglers and boots, ALWAYS! (unless my wife can find her photo of me wheelieing an enduro, wearing shorts, circa 1973)

109 F on patio, when I returned.

Will wait for flak to clear before posting further.

 

[MONK]

...I would have a hard time pulling it over on me when I park!!

If your Spyder falls over in a parking lot, you're NOT picking it back up without help.

I don't ride off my property w/o a helmet on. I'm a 99.99% ATGATT. Every once in a while, I'll trade off a jacket for a leather vest (which will do absolutely NOTHING for protection but it makes me FEEL safer than a t-shirt only). I'm rapidly running out of spending money (and I still need Tri Axis bars and a sway bar) but I'm still on the lookout for a think armored mesh jacket for those really HOT and humid days. If I'm miserable, either I won't ride or I won't be at 100%. No sense in that.

As others have said, if someone chooses to wear shorts and nothing else, so be it. Don't complain to me when you have an unintended dismount and hurt like heck.

HAGO!

 

[johnsimion]

We're discussing Spyder crashes. Have you had any?

In my 5 years on this forum, I'm aware of only one reported incident where a Spyder Ryder suffered fatal injuries and that was from not wearing a helmet.

We just had a fatal Spyder accident here in Las Vegas this past Memorial Day. The ryder ran a red light and was t-boned. I don't know whether he was geared up or not but when you see the remains of the Spyder, I don't think an Ironman suit would have been enough to save his life.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/break...n-fiery-crash-on-durango-215-western-beltway/

 

[UtahPete]

We just had a fatal Spyder accident here in Las Vegas this past Memorial Day. The ryder ran a red light and was t-boned. I don't know whether he was geared up or not but when you see the remains of the Spyder, I don't think an Ironman suit would have been enough to save his life.

https://www.8newsnow.com/news/break...n-fiery-crash-on-durango-215-western-beltway/

Thanks, John. That's exactly my point.

 

[wyliec]

Thanks for all of the replies. I would now like to ask you about how often you change your oil, what oil you use, what tires you use, and who you are EDIT POST :thumbup:.

Kidding.

When I get on the Spyder, I wear most of the gear I wear on my Wing - honestly, the only thing missing is the armored jacket. Instead, I wear a TekVest. That will protect my ribs and organs from a severe impact, front or rear. The only thing exposed are elbows and wrists.

Good point made that a slide is not isolated to just a two-wheeled spill, low or high side. If you get thrown from a Spyder, you will likely grease the pavement for a little bit.

If you should ever see a new topic, which has never been covered before, PM me.:joke: I like it. You have a sense of humor.:thumbup:

 

[SportsterDoc]

My long sleeve T shirt riding is not a criticism of armored jackets.
I owned and used 4 armored jackets over past 3 years.

I always wear gloves. When operating Cycle Tuning Unlimited in 70s-80s, I went around the block on an enduro, to check result of timing advance. Do not recall if mine or customers.

We had a companion dog for our golden shepherd-sweet, but not overly smart.
As I returned, she ran out of garage to meet me. I grabbed a fist full of front brake to avoid hitting her and the front washed out.
Missed her, but palm of left hand took some time to heal.

Always gloves, thereafter.

Challenges for wearing armored jacket include:
1. Heat. For example coming down from pleasant temps on Mt Charleston to 116 F at 3000 feet
2. What to do with the jacket (naked bike) parked in remote location for hiking. The “adventure” jacket I had for the XT250 was HEAVY.

The potential for a low side on sand/gravel on two wheels is mitigated with 3 wheels...especially Y configuration.

Yes, highsiding may be more of an issue, although it feels that the rear could spin out...and I have not pushed it.

Unlikely that armor would do much in a head-on:

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?p=5515558&highlight=Moto+guzzi#post5515558

I text photos to my wife, so she knows where to collect my body (her words).

 

[NoahMercy]

As with much of life, each individual will accept as much risk as he is willing, but environment can play a huge role in deciding how much gear to wear. I live in an area with few people, a strikingly low number of motorcycle fatalities, and ride predominately in rural areas with excellent visibility. I never ride impaired or while taking any medication (even OTC) that may affect my perception or reaction time, I don't ride tired, and I go speeds appropriate for conditions (wet, glare, dusk, dark, road surface, etc.). I can go fifty miles on back roads to the next city and encounter only one traffic light and one stop sign, or go 35 miles via Interstate, and only have one stop sign at the bottom of the exit ramp. The chances against an encounter with an automobile are astronomical, and the speeds involved (posted 70 MPH on highways and 75-80 on Interstates) means that no amount of gear is likely to keep me from serious injury or death if I came off the bike. So I could justify wearing minimal gear, as I have mitigated the cause of most bike crashes and gear is unlikely to make much of a difference anyway. BUT, I wear boots, ballistic nylon chaps over jeans, leather gloves, leather vest (at a minimum...a heavy leather riding jacket when it isn't too hot), and helmet 99% of the time. Why? Deer or livestock may step out and I may have time to slow down before hitting them or going off the road and wrecking. The few miles of low-speed driving where the gear can make the difference between vegetablehood or just a concussion if a texting cager smacks me. And if you've ever had a rock tossed off a car's tire at 80 MPH bounce off your noggin, you know it is no little thing! I will, however, never shame those who choose to accept more risk than I, although expect a little derision if you are shirtless with only shorts and flip-flops...that's just ign'ant!

 

[SportsterDoc]

Althougn I dropped my CL350 in rain, twice, in early 70s, I have only crashed twice:

1963 - I was inexperienced, a big rig turned left in front of me without signaling, distracted by engine trouble. I locked up rear and bounced of a tire. T shirt, jeans, no helmet. Not a scratch, bruise, nor abrasion, but a spinal injury. Repaired bike, but parents objected to me riding while in a body cast, so it was sold.

1981 - Lunch time cruise. 3 lanes of traffic, each direction. In middle lane, slowly passing full size van. Compact car pulled in front of van, realized van would hit him, so he pulled into my lane. A fistful of front brake lost speed, but still center-punched rear bumper. Caved in front forks (was able to ride back to shop), went over handlebars, but landed on feet in street. Sprained wrist, scuffed knee, took leather off toe of boot. T shirt, jeans, no helmet. Sold to a co-worker.

Since then, I dropped the XLH883 on an LA fire road, the XT250 3 times in Spring Mountains and Sheep Mountains, at low speed, solo, remote locations, but no damage, pride excluded.