Are Spyders super sensitive to road crown?

[IGETAROUND]

sensitive to road crown

Not so much looking to ride with no hands as looking to be able to relax and enjoy he scenery. Cant really do that if youre constantly having to keep the thing going straight. Riding loose and letting it do its thing helps but tell that to my wife. She hates it right now. Doesnt even want to ride it now, and i got it for her, not me. Going to take it out with the higher rear air pressure in a bit to see how that affected it.
Well ive beaten this topic to death, we will ride it more, get an alignment, and check in after some time. Thanks for everyone's input and thoughts.

I don't ride your model; however my ? to you is how many miles have you under your belt on the Spyder. Same ? for the wife. If you have less than 1000 miles give it some time. The sensitivity to steering input of these vehicles is truly amazing!!

As mentioned the front tire pressure needs to be as close to identical side to side as you can make it and I would respectfully suggest you not go above 18 to 20 psi in the front. If you run 25 and up in the back; you will more than likely experience wet road traction issues.

Almost all spyders need a laser alignment; according to the spyder experts less than 1% are properly aligned when delivered to the owners. It does make a marked difference in required corrective input crowned road irrespective.

These are a pleasure to pilot when set up properly; they are a nightmare until then!! The first $ invested in making it yours is to get a ROLO laser alignment by someone who does a lot of them. That would be Ann and Joe Meyer or Spyderpops or the gentleman in Houston (sorry old fart moment on names).

Then get some miles under your belt 1-2 thousand and I believe that you will have a different opinion than you and your spouse currently have. Just MHO

Al in Kazoo with 40 K and counting

After looking at your home state; you might want to take a trip to NESTLE's (sp) in upstate New York, they will treat you right and get your ride "squared away " properly. Some one will come by and spell the shop name properly for you, be patient please.

Al

 

[crna59]

I am a MSF Instructor here in WA State and I'm constantly switching from 2-wheels to 3-wheels. I have to get a whole different attitude when I jump on the Spyder. I'm still finding myself "fighting" the thing for the first 2-3 miles and then I start relaxing and riding much differently. Doing the weight shift and pressing on the opposite bar helps greatly. I thought it was sensitive to crowns, but it was just me!! :shocked:

 

[SpyderSteveFL]

It's not mentioned much but I think zbunker is on the right track. It's called DPS and it is a computer setting. For some reason this is off alot. You need a good tech that really knows how to use BUDS and understands the settings. Have a good shop check DPS FIRST. After you know DPS is good you can check alignment with ROLO - usually if its not needed there is no charge.

 

[jmatera]

So after finally straightening out a trans oil filter issue on our new 2016 leftover SE6 F3L, we are now able to ride it a bit. Aside from the immense difference from a motorcycle, my biggest issue is the constant pulling to the right. It honestly detracts from the enjoyment by about 50%. Ive posted and complained already and most people are saying get a ROLO laser done. The nearest one is about three hours away and if this is just the way these Spyders react to road crowning then i dont want to waste a day and the money just to have it still pull to the right on crowned roads. Ive tried swapping out the right wheel from a spare set i have and its basically the same. On perfectly flat roads its hardly there. But almost all roads here are crowned for rain runoff. I find it hard to believe that this is the way it should handle when on crowned roads.
Is this just the way they are? None of my other vehicles do this. Im just trying to decide if im chasing my tail and this is just the way they are or if i should pursue it a bit.

I've noticed this too. My Spyder is definitely affected by roads that are banked or crown a little more than others it's because of the wide stance. I've had my spyder for a year now and ride every weekend, it didn't take long to used to it. I try to ride to the left more and it makes a difference.

 

[Slowpoke387]

I've noticed this too. My Spyder is definitely affected by roads that are banked or crown a little more than others it's because of the wide stance. I've had my spyder for a year now and ride every weekend, it didn't take long to used to it. I try to ride to the left more and it makes a difference.

This def does help, ive been experimenting with that. The advice here is correct for the most part, the more you ride it and get used to things, the better it feels. We're just hoping to dial it in a bit better and then just enjoy it. Corbin heated seat, taller windscreen, and cell phone mount are all in the works.

 

[PMK]

The road crown can make it pull, but usually there is an easy to find sweet spot that works.

If you are at all mechanical, get two yardsticks and 4 bricks or similar. Place the yardsticks against the tires while resting the yardsticks on bricks.

Using two tape measures, with a person on the spyder, check the toe in or toe out. With a person on the seat, it should be about 3/16".

Our 14 has never been laser aligned. Done similar to what I described. Oem was pretty screwed up and handling was not good. With the setting above she runs very true and will go hands off at well above highway speed limits.

How does the bike feel in a constant radius corner. Do you notice any tendency to tuck or dart around, especially to the inside of the curve?

I thought before I suggested having the steering sensor nulled while they had the Spyder. Being an electric power assist, if it thinks you are trying to turnit will. However, based on how you describe no issues on flat ground, that may be ok.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Even new Ford pickups need getting used to. My brother bought a 2017 F-250. It has steering by wire. He felt it suddenly pull to the side on two occasions. He thought the steering was screwy and took it in to get it fixed. Turned out the computer was just compensating for the crown in the road! All he had to do was get used to how it works!

 

[Slowpoke387]

The road crown can make it pull, but usually there is an easy to find sweet spot that works.

If you are at all mechanical, get two yardsticks and 4 bricks or similar. Place the yardsticks against the tires while resting the yardsticks on bricks.

Using two tape measures, with a person on the spyder, check the toe in or toe out. With a person on the seat, it should be about 3/16".

Our 14 has never been laser aligned. Done similar to what I described. Oem was pretty screwed up and handling was not good. With the setting above she runs very true and will go hands off at well above highway speed limits.

How does the bike feel in a constant radius corner. Do you notice any tendency to tuck or dart around, especially to the inside of the curve?

I thought before I suggested having the steering sensor nulled while they had the Spyder. Being an electric power assist, if it thinks you are trying to turnit will. However, based on how you describe no issues on flat ground, that may be ok.

So to answer your question, if its a right hand sweeper it feels great. Relieves the constant pressure needed on the right bar to keep it straight. I love right hand sweepers right now lol. Left hand sweepers really push it to the right, which I'm sort of expecting due to these things not leaning over like a bike. Slight darting but my gut tells me that its just me getting used to it.

 

[Spyder 42]

FWIW, SWMBO's RTL was hard to manage in the curves. It tracked straight on flat surfaces so I was st a loss. A Lazer alignment showed that the left wheel was dead on but the right was toed out by 1/4". Best $100 spent on the RTL.

 

[Slowpoke387]

FWIW, SWMBO's RTL was hard to manage in the curves. It tracked straight on flat surfaces so I was st a loss. A Lazer alignment showed that the left wheel was dead on but the right was toed out by 1/4". Best $100 spent on the RTL.

Very interesting. Well it goes in on Friday so I'm hoping they find something similar. nothing worse than being told its normal and its me lol. Cant wait.

 

[Slowpoke387]

Got it back today finally. Just a hair better but im really thinking its the nature of the beast. I will try different tires at some point because i know tires are what connect us to the road and can make or break a ride. After that we will just ride it and hopefully forget all about it. Its still a hoot to ride. Just wish it was more of a sit back and relax ride. Its not, you have to be on ur toes non stop or it can grab a road irregularity and just go with it instead of over it. Maybe tires, maybe just because of the three wheels.

 

[Peter Aawen]

..... Maybe tires, maybe just because of the three wheels.

There's quite a few (many thousands!?!) people out there ryding their Spyders without feeling they are badly upset by crowned roads, & once they get over that first 'get used to the differences' 500-1000 miles or so, most actually find their Spyders to be a more relaxed & easy riding machine than their previous (in many case significant) experience on 2 Wheels. So there's a good chance that you/your Spyder DOES have a correctable issue! But.... if you spend your time asking about & looking at (as I have!) many of the Spyders of those who don't have similar issues, it rapidly becomes apparent that by far the majority of those who find their Spyders comfortable & easy to ryde on any road surface are running after market tires, NOT the crappy Kendas! I won't expound on how crappy the Kendas are (much) more here, I do that enough elsewhere, but I doubt I'd be far wrong to suggest that when you get around to throwing the Kendas away & replacing them with some good quality car tires, you'll probably want to kick yourself for not doing it sooner!! :gaah:


I reckon there aren't too many who'd argue that after the ROLO Wheel Alignment & maybe the upgraded sway bar (particularly for those who want to ride a little more aggressively) fitting proper tires is the next single most impressive improvement you can make to your Spyders ryde & handling! Sure, for RT Owners, the Magic Mirror Mounts might be a cheap & easy wonderful & extremely welcome upgrade, but they just improve the ease of servicing the machine & reduce mirror vibrations; fitting good tires can make a vast improvement on almost all the ride & handling issues you tell us you are concerned about, especially if you make the time & effort to get your tire pressures right for those tires, the way you ride, & the loads you put on your Spyder instead of running the 'one size fits all' compromise pressures off the tire placard/manual that simply don't take any of the myriad of variables that have an impact on the 'correct pressure for your application' into account!

So, are you sure you don't want to toss the crappy Kendas now & see how much of an improvement quality tires can make??

:thumbup:

 

[Slowpoke387]

There's quite a few (many thousands!?!) people out there ryding their Spyders without feeling they are badly upset by crowned roads, & once they get over that first 'get used to the differences' 500-1000 miles or so, most actually find their Spyders to be a more relaxed & easy riding machine than their previous (in many case significant) experience on 2 Wheels. So there's a good chance that you/your Spyder DOES have a correctable issue! But.... if you spend your time asking about & looking at (as I have!) many of the Spyders of those who don't have similar issues, it rapidly becomes apparent that by far the majority of those who find their Spyders comfortable & easy to ryde on any road surface are running after market tires, NOT the crappy Kendas! I won't expound on how crappy the Kendas are (much) more here, I do that enough elsewhere, but I doubt I'd be far wrong to suggest that when you get around to throwing the Kendas away & replacing them with some good quality car tires, you'll probably want to kick yourself for not doing it sooner!! :gaah:


I reckon there aren't too many who'd argue that after the ROLO Wheel Alignment & maybe the upgraded sway bar (particularly for those who want to ride a little more aggressively) fitting proper tires is the next single most impressive improvement you can make to your Spyders ryde & handling! Sure, for RT Owners, the Magic Mirror Mounts might be a cheap & easy wonderful & extremely welcome upgrade, but they just improve the ease of servicing the machine & reduce mirror vibrations; fitting good tires can make a vast improvement on almost all the ride & handling issues you tell us you are concerned about, especially if you make the time & effort to get your tire pressures right for those tires, the way you ride, & the loads you put on your Spyder instead of running the 'one size fits all' compromise pressures off the tire placard/manual that simply don't take any of the myriad of variables that have an impact on the 'correct pressure for your application' into account!

So, are you sure you don't want to toss the crappy Kendas now & see how much of an improvement quality tires can make??

:thumbup:

Been thinking about this exactly. In my mind i keep going back n forth. Is EVERYONE just adjusting to this or is it just not there for them... So ya tires. Thats actually next. It seems to be the one thing that makes a lot of sense to me. And pretty much the last thing before i stop looking for excuses. Tires absolutely connect you to the road and have different ride characteristics. So my next search here will be which tires to try. Car tires? In the front? This is all new to me. Ive always put car tires on cars and bike tires on bikes lol.
Any recommendations?

 

[Highwayman2013]

Been thinking about this exactly. In my mind i keep going back n forth. Is EVERYONE just adjusting to this or is it just not there for them... So ya tires. Thats actually next. It seems to be the one thing that makes a lot of sense to me. And pretty much the last thing before i stop looking for excuses. Tires absolutely connect you to the road and have different ride characteristics. So my next search here will be which tires to try. Car tires? In the front? This is all new to me. Ive always put car tires on cars and bike tires on bikes lol.
Any recommendations?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-Federal-Formoza-AZ01-165-55R15-75V-BSW/222444863481

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Is the Spyder sensitive to road crown? Yes! Having just ridden about 2500 miles from Idaho to Granby, QC, Canada for the Homecoming on all sorts of Interstate road, I will definitely tell you the Spyder does react to road crown. It also reacts to strong winds. In both cases I had to apply some minor steering force to stay straight. But it isn't a lot of force that is needed. On a level flat surface it tracks straight. I have the Baja Ron shock adjusters and his sway bar and Continental Conti Pro Contact front tires. This is the first extended trip with the tires. The Spyder is quite stable in a strong cross wind, but it will move over if I don't keep my hands on the grips.

The single biggest difference between a two wheeler and the Spyder is that MUCH of the steering control on a two wheeler is supplied by gyroscopic forces of the rotating front wheel. You don't have that with a Spyder. The Spyder does require pretty much full time steering control, although it is very little. You don't have physics helping you like you do with a two wheeler.

 

[sfcarn]

I went with Federal EVO 595 original size from Newegg.com. I had them mounted and balanced at the local Goodyear Tire dealer for $15.00 ea. My tire pressure is 19psi. It made a big difference, handles really good way better than the kenda tires.

 

[Slowpoke387]

Is the Spyder sensitive to road crown? Yes! Having just ridden about 2500 miles from Idaho to Granby, QC, Canada for the Homecoming on all sorts of Interstate road, I will definitely tell you the Spyder does react to road crown. It also reacts to strong winds. In both cases I had to apply some minor steering force to stay straight. But it isn't a lot of force that is needed. On a level flat surface it tracks straight. I have the Baja Ron shock adjusters and his sway bar and Continental Conti Pro Contact front tires. This is the first extended trip with the tires. The Spyder is quite stable in a strong cross wind, but it will move over if I don't keep my hands on the grips.

The single biggest difference between a two wheeler and the Spyder is that MUCH of the steering control on a two wheeler is supplied by gyroscopic forces of the rotating front wheel. You don't have that with a Spyder. The Spyder does require pretty much full time steering control, although it is very little. You don't have physics helping you like you do with a two wheeler.

Makes a lot of sense. Ok now just for conversation, if the motorcyles' gyroscopic effect provides stability, how do cars which also have two wheels up front deal with this issue? Is it just the pure weight of the car that helps it track straight on uneven roads or are they just more adjustable, or just completely different altogether because of the fourth wheel involved...its interesting to compare the Spyder and a car because of the two front wheels.

 

[Slowpoke387]

I went with Federal EVO 595 original size from Newegg.com. I had them mounted and balanced at the local Goodyear Tire dealer for $15.00 ea. My tire pressure is 19psi. It made a big difference, handles really good way better than the kenda tires.

Good to know. I will look into those. So a regular car tire place can mount and balance these wheels? I guess it makes sense, theyre closer to car wheels than motorcycle wheels.

 

[sfcarn]

They looked at what I had and said no problem. I drive a lot of different vehicles at my job and they most all seem to have a slight drift to the right and sometimes drive straight depending on road surface crown. I haven't put hardly any miles my Spyder since putting on the new tires maybe 30 or 40 miles but I noticed it handled way better and the road I was on it drove straight no drift. I hope this helps just my opinion and experiences. My Spyder is a 14 RTL.

 

[Peter Aawen]

.... Car tires? In the front? This is all new to me. Ive always put car tires on cars and bike tires on bikes lol.
Any recommendations?

The Kenda OE Spyder Tires ARE car tires, don't let anyone kid you otherwise! :shocked:

The rims they run on ARE car rims, the bead profile IS a Passenger Car bead profile, & the only reason I can see for the crappy Kenda oe things having Special Motorcycle Only printed on the sidewall is that they are actually a CAR tire that is SOOO sub-standard that it's not safe to run them on any car or actually anything but a 'special' motorcycle!! :gaah:

ANY car tire will be better than the Kenda 'special' tires for motorcycles that obviously have been made to a (very poor) standard! Any car tire will be better than the OE Tires, but the 'better' the car tire, the better the improvement. However, because car tires are made for bigger & heavier things than the (relatively) lightweight Spyders we ride on, unless the car tire you fit is an extremely soft compound performance tire then you are likely to need to run somewhat lower pressures in a passenger car tire that is now only vcarrying a few hundred kgs at most instead of over 1000kgs!! For a passenger car tire on the rear, I'd guess at about 22 or so psi being the max pressure you'd want to run; the fronts, maybe 14-18psi depending on the tire & your load/ryding style. The Federals mentioned above are one of the reasonably successful alternatives, but there are many proven others as well, just do some searching & take your pick! :thumbup: