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Arcimoto - They're at it again
- Thread starter gkamer
- Start date
Spyder's don't either!
Think about it fatboy - the 'pulley on splined shaft' design has been around almost since the inception of shafts & pulleys; and today, there's likely millions of 'pulley's on splined shafts' actually in use on motorcycles & in all sorts of other applications, many of which allow if not actively call for the 'gearbox to be used as a brake' both as a concept & in their specific application....
And just how many of the millions of 2-wheeled motorcyclists that currently use their 'gearbox as brake' do you think have any issues with 'pulley on splined shaft' failures similar to those some Spyders are currently experiencing?? How many of the other applications where there are pulleys on shafts & gearboxes or drivelines that get used as a brake do you think have similar failures?? If you think it's a lot, then you're kidding yourself - the real answer to those questions is NOT TOO MANY! Another question - Do all or even any other 'pulley's on shafts' where the gearbox/driveline can be or is used as a brake have this inherent pulley/shaft failure problem?? The answer to that question is now & has been almost since the concept of installing pulleys on splined shafts found a practical application is a resounding NO! So for you to ascribe using the gearbox as a brake as the cause of this failure on Spyders is sorta pulling a long bow!?! :lecturef_smilie:
But if you want to keep kidding yourself that despite the millions of pulleys on shafts out there in use where the gearbox &/or driveline is used as a brake without a statistically significant failure rate isn't indicative that there's something else going on with this issue on Spyders, then go right ahead.... only be warned, if you keep pushing that idea out there, you should probably expect most people to treat that idea with at least a fairly healthy dose of scepticism!
Just Sayin' :cheers:
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But they just keep on teasing us with stuff like this!! :gaah:
Now I'm all for properly testing & making sure that a new design/product doesn't have any silly little issues or inherent problems; and I'm certainly not a fan of using the customers/purchasers of a newly designed & released product as unpaid 'testers' &/or crash test dummies, but I reckon there's a fair few of us out here who'd REALLY like to see something like this 'in the flesh' if not actually on the road so that we could look, touch, feel, & listen to it; maybe even take it for a spin.... Heck, if we could do that, we might even be prepared to place an order, maybe even pay a deposit.... :dontknow: And all we've seen from BRP about an Electric Spyder for quite a few years now are things like that vid - teaser after teaser; then repeat - again!! :banghead:
Just look at how many punters have signed on to Arcimoto &/or paid a deposit! :shocked: And at the way they're actually getting machines out there too, even if they're not yet selling to the general public in too many places!!
. BRP shouldn't be playing around in the barn with EV's for too much longer, if they want to be a part of this then I reckon they NEED to get something physical & viable out there PDQ, cos it's pretty obvious from Arcimoto's increasing market that despite how ugly their versions are, the EV Reverse Tryke 'horse' is already outta the door & getting ready to bolt! :lecturef_smilie:
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A couple of comments. The Arcimoto gets about 100 miles on a charge in city (at 25mph) on a nice day using 100% of the battery (which is a no-no). That is likely why BRP hasn't made an electric version - the batteries simply aren't there yet. All Arcimotos (Roadster, FUV) have regenerative braking. I do suspect the custom cast gearbox is a weak point, but mainly because of the wear and tear of acceleration. Paid pre-orders are $100 and refundable. Paid reservations/deposits are $2500, non refundable, and gets you an Arcimoto in about 2-3 months in about 5 states (OR-WA-CA-NV-FL). They are cranking out about 7 a week - mostly because they don't have production streamlined and they are bringing a huge manufacturing plant on line. I like the look of my FUV and it definitely turns heads and gets lots of people commenting very positively. I'm not a fan of the roadster, it is pretty ugly and can't be used to go on road trips. At 66 miles (55mph) and 32 miles (70mph) you are just never going on any sort of trip. They do work well for short trips to the store and errands (which is how I use ours). The FUV allows people in some states to ride without a helmet or motorcycle endorsement (OR-CA-FL-HI). I had to learn about the can-am Spyder as that is what Oregon uses in its 3 wheel endorsement endorsement training. I decided to forgo the training as the differences were too great to be enough for me to spend $400.
Cobwebs
New member
Cost / benefit of anything battery powered is screwy at best. Disposable item once the battery is tired.:banghead:
Great way to put more control on people movement though if your new world order plan only requires the click of a mouse to the off position at the power station.
I thought trees required carbon to grow then they got turned into crude over the centuries.The best renewable energy so far. Apparently batteries grow on trees now.:banghead:
Magnetics are the future if we get there.
Great way to put more control on people movement though if your new world order plan only requires the click of a mouse to the off position at the power station.
I thought trees required carbon to grow then they got turned into crude over the centuries.The best renewable energy so far. Apparently batteries grow on trees now.:banghead:
Magnetics are the future if we get there.
CloverHillCrawler
Active member
Build all the EV's you want, but there is not the infrastructure to support it.
Our current grid can't support the capacity of the load that EV's are going to throw at it.
The whole EV crowd is going to shriek when they find out that they bought a vehicle that they can't get power to.
One of the guys at work is going through this now with his HOA. People in town houses are now wanting to install charging stations in their front yards and run cords across the streets to the common parking area.
HOA : nope not allowed for obvious reasons and there is no electrical capacity nearby to install a charging station in the common area. One homeowner went ahead and installed the charging station at his house and is running the cord across the street causing all sorts of issues.
Our current grid can't support the capacity of the load that EV's are going to throw at it.
The whole EV crowd is going to shriek when they find out that they bought a vehicle that they can't get power to.
One of the guys at work is going through this now with his HOA. People in town houses are now wanting to install charging stations in their front yards and run cords across the streets to the common parking area.
HOA : nope not allowed for obvious reasons and there is no electrical capacity nearby to install a charging station in the common area. One homeowner went ahead and installed the charging station at his house and is running the cord across the street causing all sorts of issues.
FrogmanDave
Active member
I won't say stupidity but I will certainly say this is a lack of forethought. To purchase a vehicle that you can't charge in your own garage or wherever wasn't very bright to say the least.
You know there was no infrastructure to support those newfangled horseless carriages either. Where could you buy gas? Nowhere. I guess we have seen where that headed. To a gas station on just about every corner of every town in this country. And plenty along the highways. Batteries will get better, last longer, and charge much quicker. Have no doubt about it, lack of infrastructure is NOT going to stop electric vehicles from being developed from here on out. Most industry experts predict there will be no internal combustion engines being produced at all in the next 20 years. The times they are a changing.
bikerbillone
Well-known member
They can build charging stations on every freaking corner of America, but until these 'engineers' build a battery that do the trip miles needed.... no one wants to stop mid trip and spend hours reading a book while charging a battery, that is foolish thinking.
ARtraveler
R.I.P. Dwayne
I don't usually jump into the fray, but this is also a "hot button" issue for me.
There are a lot of complaints that the grid is now outdated and ready to fail at any time. The thought of all the additional electric vehicles drawing on the power grid will surely take it down. And then if we get a cold spell (remember last February)? We were 30 minutes away from rolling brown outs in order to save Texas from their major grid problem.
The other two complaints I see are range and price.
Currently with 200 mile expected range (IMO over rated like suggested mpg numbers on car stickers), that will take care of long trips. I don't do many 500 mile days these days...but...when I want to, I want to. And no way am I going to wait in line to get the use of a charger (which I am sure will take a credit card or similar to get a charge). Why do you think they call it a charge and not a free? :roflblack: :roflblack:
It appears that any electric vehicle can command an extra $20 grand or more. $75K for the Acrimoto is way crazy for what you get.
CloverHillCrawler
Active member
That's the catch though, they can build these every 10 feet if they wanted to, but the amount of generated power along with the infrastructure needed to handle that capacity without melting down from heat (transformers, transfer switches, and wiring) to do rapid charging for the current amount of vehicles on the road on top of what the grid is supplying now is non-existent. Nor will it be anytime in the near future. Remember that great Infrastructure plan 0bama with Biden at his side had back in 2008? Yep neither does anyone else , that's how fast they will move on the current one. All lip service only this time everyone is buying into the lie with an EV.
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RICZ
New member
We are considering buying a new car. The only firm decision is it will be a 2 row SUV for the obvious reason; cargo space. The quandary is; what configuration will be under the hood? We don't want to go the plug in hybrid route and have to depend on there being a charger available, or installing one in the home. A hybrid is tempting, but they cost extra for more tech and complexity when the gas version of the same car gets only about 3 mpg less. The additional cost of a hybrid will buy a lot of that 3 mpg.
Topping our list is the Hyundai Santa Fe. Great build quality, nice materials and finish on the interior, more standard goodies than the competition and it still has control knobs and buttons, so I don't have to depend solely on the touch screen. I've always been an American car guy, but the Santa Fe is tempting. Now to decide; gas or hybrid. Hmm. What say you?
Topping our list is the Hyundai Santa Fe. Great build quality, nice materials and finish on the interior, more standard goodies than the competition and it still has control knobs and buttons, so I don't have to depend solely on the touch screen. I've always been an American car guy, but the Santa Fe is tempting. Now to decide; gas or hybrid. Hmm. What say you?
bikerbillone
Well-known member
Consider the Prius hatchback? Maybe not enough room for your consideration. I get avg 63 mpg on my hybrid, not a plug in.
RICZ
New member
We kinda switched tracks here, but we pretty well covered the subject vehicle, IMHO.
I like that 63 mpg, but you are correct, we are looking at a larger container. Our present ride is a Chrysler 300C and like the just right size for us.
There are so many choices out there, even when pared down to the size we want. I welcome more suggestions, especially those based on ownership.
bikerbillone
Well-known member
Just as I thought after it was posted, sorry for the redundancy.
IdahoMtnSpyder
Active member
From a resource conservation standpoint the absolute best option is hydrogen. Use solar generated electricity to disassociate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms in a water molecule. No resource consumption is needed to create the electricity (other than to manufacture solar panel infrastructure) and replace the water that was used by the water created when the oxygen and hydrogen are combined in a fuel cell or H2 burning engine. Solar energy is limitless as far as human needs go.
wyliec
New member
It doesn't take long to get used to no knobs and buttons. The thing is I was going to trade in the 2018 Jeep Wrangler 2 door and get something with better gas mileage.The better gas mileage thing went out the window when I traded in for a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk. Actually I do get about 2 mpg more with the Trailhawk, and more room since I had a 2 door Wrangler; plus I can still go off roading. It did take awhile to figure out the GPS touch screen menu. Also, the ride is quite smooth.
You mentioned Santa Fe. How many different engine options are there? I could have gotten the 4 cylinder in the Jeep, which had better gas mileage. But, for me getting into the flow of traffic when entering the highway was more important, so the 6 it was. I thought about the Hyundai Santa Cruz, but didn't want to wait around for it.
The other thing that played into my choice was the Chrysler Employee discount, the military discount, and the loyalty discount. I love discounts.
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RICZ
New member
Wyliec...
The wife just hijacked my plan with; What do they have that's smaller? That would be the Tucson. It has a 1.6 liter turbo four and the Santa Fe has a 2.5 L turbo four. Our granddaughter has a Kona with the 1.6 L turbo and it goes like a cat on fire. It's a hoot to drive too.
The wife just hijacked my plan with; What do they have that's smaller? That would be the Tucson. It has a 1.6 liter turbo four and the Santa Fe has a 2.5 L turbo four. Our granddaughter has a Kona with the 1.6 L turbo and it goes like a cat on fire. It's a hoot to drive too.
mecsw500
Member
The limit for me is how big are the batteries, how heavy are they, how much range I will get at reasonable cruising speed and what is the recharge time. I know I can get 200+ miles on 5 US gallons of gas on my Spyder, and it usually takes me about 10 minutes to queue, fill up, and get ready to ride again and it gives me an easy cruising speed of around 70 mph, two up with luggage for 200+ miles. The energy density of gasoline is quite high compared with contemporary battery technology.
If an EV gives me approximately the same performance envelope, I would probably buy into it,even if it were say 25% more expensive. However, if the range, speed, load carrying capacity, recharge time, vehicle size and weight factors are not largely as convenient as the gas powered version, it would take a lot of persuading to get me to buy into an EV. I would however sacrifice a bit of range or a small factor of increased refill/recharge time, if the recharge sites were convenient and it takes less than say 10 minutes to charge to full. The reduction in normal servicing costs (apart from battery replacement) would make up for a bit of range loss or recharge time.
The reality is though, if fewer and fewer cars and SUVs run on gas, i.e. are indeed EVs, the fewer and fewer convenient gas stations there might be over time. Nobody is going to keep a gas station network going just for motorcycles and trikes as gasoline vehicles are replaced with EVs. So, if the switch to EV cars and SUVs really does happen, eventually motorcycles and trikes will have to follow suite. It might not be as a result of direct legislation, but as the result of legislation directed at other vehicle categories. I think it is a freight train coming and twenty years from now there might not be a lot of choice in the matter.
If an EV gives me approximately the same performance envelope, I would probably buy into it,even if it were say 25% more expensive. However, if the range, speed, load carrying capacity, recharge time, vehicle size and weight factors are not largely as convenient as the gas powered version, it would take a lot of persuading to get me to buy into an EV. I would however sacrifice a bit of range or a small factor of increased refill/recharge time, if the recharge sites were convenient and it takes less than say 10 minutes to charge to full. The reduction in normal servicing costs (apart from battery replacement) would make up for a bit of range loss or recharge time.
The reality is though, if fewer and fewer cars and SUVs run on gas, i.e. are indeed EVs, the fewer and fewer convenient gas stations there might be over time. Nobody is going to keep a gas station network going just for motorcycles and trikes as gasoline vehicles are replaced with EVs. So, if the switch to EV cars and SUVs really does happen, eventually motorcycles and trikes will have to follow suite. It might not be as a result of direct legislation, but as the result of legislation directed at other vehicle categories. I think it is a freight train coming and twenty years from now there might not be a lot of choice in the matter.
