Anyone tried other spark plugs?

[troop]

Over the years, I found my past H-D and Buell ran just as well with NGK's over their H-D (Champion) OEM's. I remember a couple of Japanese bikes not running as well with Champion/Bosch as they did with OEM NGK. That said, with the PIA it is to change the plugs on a Spyder, I'll certainly stick with the OEM plug just for peace of mind..

 

[Hypurone]

My reply offered a different brand I prefer over NGK. Going back and rereading the original topic post, I took it to mean he was asking about other brands, not specific part numbers.

No, but someone else did....

 

[larryd]

My experience...NGK have always been good...Denso U gap plugs have always been BETTER...MY reason why...Back in my younger days riding 2 stroke motorcycles and snowmobiles at a slow trail riding pace, when you'd finally have a long straight stretch that you could twist the throttle and wind it up it would take a while for it to clean out and rev up to the red line...AFTER installing Denso U gap plugs and the same riding conditions the wind up to the red line would be instantaneous...When Artic Cat was having plug fowling problems on some of their 2 stroke sleds several years ago using NGK plugs, Artic cat somehow convinced NGK to make a U gap plug for their sleds...But, the U gap was on the center electrode NOT the GROUND electrode like the DENSO's...This U gap fixed the plug fowling problem...AND THIS IS THE REASON I LIKE DENSO's BETTER...larryd

 

[pegasus1300]

so which Denso Plug are you using in your Spyder? Are they still called ND?

 

[larryd]

so which Denso Plug are you using in your Spyder? Are they still called ND?

My Spyder is just now due for a plug change...Should happen this winter, I live in PA so no winter riding for me...

I will cross reference the Spyder NGK number to the Denso U gap top of the line plug and get them...

When that happens I will follow up here...(if I remember)

larryd

 

[PMK]

so which Denso Plug are you using in your Spyder? Are they still called ND?

2014 Spyder RTS with a 1330 three cylinder engine, I installed Denso IU22 spark plugs.
This is the Denso cross reference from the NGK CR7EIX, some folks run.

If installing in the V Twin powered Spyders, you should verify the correct spark plug part number for your application.

 

[Woodenfish]

As a long time automotive technician working at new car dealership service departments I quickly learned that the spark plugs and ignition equipment is all tuned by the engineers to certain parts. Spark plugs are built to operate at a specific heat range and resistance. If you change brands the spark plugs might look the same and fit but the heat range is different, the resistance is different they are not the same. Price of the spark plug and design of its electrodes or some exotic material mean nothing. I replaced a lot of brand new expensive upgraded aftermarket parts with factory equipment and the drive ability was restored. I don’t care if it’s a lawnmower engine I own I stick with OEM parts. Chuck Yeager was right in his commercials for A/C DELCO. They just don’t fit, they match.

 

[PMK]

As a long time automotive technician working at new car dealership service departments I quickly learned that the spark plugs and ignition equipment is all tuned by the engineers to certain parts. Spark plugs are built to operate at a specific heat range and resistance. If you change brands the spark plugs might look the same and fit but the heat range is different, the resistance is different they are not the same. Price of the spark plug and design of its electrodes or some exotic material mean nothing. I replaced a lot of brand new expensive upgraded aftermarket parts with factory equipment and the drive ability was restored. I don’t care if it’s a lawnmower engine I own I stick with OEM parts. Chuck Yeager was right in his commercials for A/C DELCO. They just don’t fit, they match.

Respectable opinion, but others will differ.
Regarding heat range of the spark plug or resistance, unless an error is made in cross referencing or during purchase, those would remain the same.

Regarding design of the spark plug and materials used, my opinion differs to an opposite end of the spectrum. Advanced materials and fine wire electrodes can produce very strong dependable ignition over a longer service life.

While I do realize not every vehicle engine enjoys performance components, some work horses, such as our 1999 Ford van tends to prefer oem Motorcraft spark plugs. Then again, my 2010 Toyota Tacoma, as all US Tacomas with a V6, have one engine bank with NGK plugs and the opposite bank equipped with Denso plugs when manufactured. Once the engine was broken in, all the plugs were swapped to Denso performance spark plugs.

As always, for anyone and their Spyder, run the oil, oil filter, air filter, tires, tire pressures, and of course spark plugs, whether oem stuff or aftermarket, that makes you comfortable.

 

[Mikey]

My experience...NGK have always been good...Denso U gap plugs have always been BETTER...MY reason why...Back in my younger days riding 2 stroke motorcycles and snowmobiles at a slow trail riding pace, when you'd finally have a long straight stretch that you could twist the throttle and wind it up it would take a while for it to clean out and rev up to the red line...AFTER installing Denso U gap plugs and the same riding conditions the wind up to the red line would be instantaneous...When Artic Cat was having plug fowling problems on some of their 2 stroke sleds several years ago using NGK plugs, Artic cat somehow convinced NGK to make a U gap plug for their sleds...But, the U gap was on the center electrode NOT the GROUND electrode like the DENSO's...This U gap fixed the plug fowling problem...AND THIS IS THE REASON I LIKE DENSO's BETTER...larryd

I had a 71 Panther, when we go it brand new from the dealer, first thing he did was take the NGK plugs out of the new motor and put a set of champions in their place and told us not to use anything else unless we wanted troubles! You know I was shocked, but every time I tried NGK plugs in that motor, it would foul a plug!!! Some motors need certain things, I ran into a ski-do snowmobile think it was 650 where you had to index your plugs to point towards the pistons or they would foul the plug and not run!! So, what I guess I am saying is, go with whatever works the best! Iridium is the way I would go!

 

[Woodenfish]

Respectable opinion, but others will differ.
Regarding heat range of the spark plug or resistance, unless an error is made in cross referencing or during purchase, those would remain the same.

Regarding design of the spark plug and materials used, my opinion differs to an opposite end of the spectrum. Advanced materials and fine wire electrodes can produce very strong dependable ignition over a longer service life.

While I do realize not every vehicle engine enjoys performance components, some work horses, such as our 1999 Ford van tends to prefer oem Motorcraft spark plugs. Then again, my 2010 Toyota Tacoma, as all US Tacomas with a V6, have one engine bank with NGK plugs and the opposite bank equipped with Denso plugs when manufactured. Once the engine was broken in, all the plugs were swapped to Denso performance spark plugs.

As always, for anyone and their Spyder, run the oil, oil filter, air filter, tires, tire pressures, and of course spark plugs, whether oem stuff or aftermarket, that makes you comfortable.

Do you have professional experience across a wide amount of engines and manufacturers? There is quite a difference in aftermarket parts versus OEM. The comments I left are by a professional factory trained Master Automotive Technician with 35 years experience working in dealerships. I was a full line technician capable of any repair but my specialty was electrical, drive ability, engine repairs, HVAC and convertibles.

I worked for a domestic dealership for over 23 years and a European import dealership for 12. My experience showed me that ignition systems are more complex than what the appearance of the parts to OEM. Customers who had performed needed maintenance themselves using high quality non OEM brands of parts often had severe problems because the parts they used although called for in the cross-reference did not work well in the real world. OEM ignition parts fixed their problems 100% of the time. I also found that K&N air filters did not fit properly leaving gaps in the seal in the air box. We would pull those out and throw them in the garbage. Many times while changing oil I would run across aftermarket oil filters that would disintegrate upon removal. These were all within the service guidelines for replacement intervals. I would also see damage to engines caused by the use of improper engine oils for their application. I highly recommend 100% synthetic high quality engine oil in turbocharged engines. Synthetic blends maybe factory installed but their use is first to lower cost of ownership through the warranty period. Cost of ownership from maintenance is highly sought information by fleet buyers. One of the main reasons we see such improvements in using better products that have a significantly longer service life. I would highly suggest that everyone use OEM parts in key components.

Manufacturers choose specific tires placed on their different models with the best intentions of providing best performance in steering, handling, braking, traction and long wear. The same thing for brake parts and so many others. There are few aftermarket parts I would recommend without knowing the details of the product and the quality of the engineering that went into them for the particular application.

Modern vehicles depend upon engineering designs formulated for the application. I tend to stick with what works and will be keeping my Spyders maintained with original parts. If a technician needs to perform diagnosis on the Spyder I want him to have all the confidence in every components availability to function as originally designed. Chasing after faults on an engine with aftermarket ignition parts is incredibly difficult even when using all the modern diagnostic equipment. Sometimes the best thing is just to pull all that stuff and replace it which is a big expense to the customer.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Do you have professional experience across a wide amount of engines and manufacturers? There is quite a difference in aftermarket parts versus OEM. The comments I left are by a professional factory trained Master Automotive Technician with 35 years experience working in dealerships. I was a full line technician capable of any repair but my specialty was electrical, drive ability, engine repairs, HVAC and convertibles.

I worked for a domestic dealership for over 23 years and a European import dealership for 12. My experience showed me that ignition systems are more complex than what the appearance of the parts to OEM. Customers who had performed needed maintenance themselves using high quality non OEM brands of parts often had severe problems because the parts they used although called for in the cross-reference did not work well in the real world. OEM ignition parts fixed their problems 100% of the time. I also found that K&N air filters did not fit properly leaving gaps in the seal in the air box. We would pull those out and throw them in the garbage. Many times while changing oil I would run across aftermarket oil filters that would disintegrate upon removal. These were all within the service guidelines for replacement intervals. I would also see damage to engines caused by the use of improper engine oils for their application. I highly recommend 100% synthetic high quality engine oil in turbocharged engines. Synthetic blends maybe factory installed but their use is first to lower cost of ownership through the warranty period. Cost of ownership from maintenance is highly sought information by fleet buyers. One of the main reasons we see such improvements in using better products that have a significantly longer service life. I would highly suggest that everyone use OEM parts in key components.

Manufacturers choose specific tires placed on their different models with the best intentions of providing best performance in steering, handling, braking, traction and long wear. The same thing for brake parts and so many others. There are few aftermarket parts I would recommend without knowing the details of the product and the quality of the engineering that went into them for the particular application.

Modern vehicles depend upon engineering designs formulated for the application. I tend to stick with what works and will be keeping my Spyders maintained with original parts. If a technician needs to perform diagnosis on the Spyder I want him to have all the confidence in every components availability to function as originally designed. Chasing after faults on an engine with aftermarket ignition parts is incredibly difficult even when using all the modern diagnostic equipment. Sometimes the best thing is just to pull all that stuff and replace it which is a big expense to the customer.

...... Do you really believe BRP wanted KENDA to produce the BEST tire they could for the Spyders / Rykers ??????. I realize BRP didn't engineer the tires ... but it was their input to the manufacturer .... including what they were willing to pay for them. So Kenda gave them what they requested ..... basically a Marginal tire at a Very low cost ..... jmho .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[PMK]

Do you have professional experience across a wide amount of engines and manufacturers? There is quite a difference in aftermarket parts versus OEM. The comments I left are by a professional factory trained Master Automotive Technician with 35 years experience working in dealerships. I was a full line technician capable of any repair but my specialty was electrical, drive ability, engine repairs, HVAC and convertibles.

I hope your drawing first blood is not taken as some type of personal attacks, getting us both banned...I am keeping this as clean and well mannered as simple words permit. I do not take your words as an attack, nor offer one at you. Simply sharing experience, and ideas.

Suffice to say, I very likely have you beat by a decade plus, experience wise, and am confident my experience in suspension tuning, engine building, chassis setup, race prep, metal structures, composite structures, two stroke tuning, four stroke tuning, fabrication, advanced electrical plus electronics and more for automotive, powersports, aircraft and DOD projects sometimes and often leads myself, customers and racers I help away from simple production parts and specs, differs from your dealership experience.

As they say, race on Sunday, sell on Monday.

Yes, I run Denso spark plugs in the Spyder, plus I do not run oem oil, brake fluid, coolant, air filter, exhaust, tires, headlights, foglights, or seat. The engine air ducts are modified and ambient pressure / temp sensor is relocated, certain items have exotic insulation applied, I have determined my own best alignment specs and do have the special tools and equipment of BUDS, BUDS2, and a ROLO Laser Alignment setup, plus tire changing capability and dynamic balancing, and of course, calibrated high end torque wrenches. Yes, I do know how to use the equipment also.

So with that, and not wanting to get banned again, as the original person posted, to answer his question, yes, I run different brand spark plugs than oem.

 

[bigbadbrucie]

...... Do you really believe BRP wanted KENDA to produce the BEST tire they could for the Spyders / Rykers ??????. I realize BRP didn't engineer the tires ... but it was their input to the manufacturer .... including what they were willing to pay for them. So Kenda gave them what they requested ..... basically a Marginal tire at a Very low cost ..... jmho .... Mike :thumbup:

Mike....I’ve been waiting for this post from you. I hesitated chiming in...waiting for THIS reply from our tire Guru.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Allow me to clear up a misconception about quality, even though it hasn't been explicitly mentioned in the thread. It is implied though in the comments about the engineering of vehicles.

High quality is not the same as designing for maximum performance or reliability. Japan did not kick US butts by producing products that were the ultimate in durability. They kicked our butts by designing and producing products that would reliably meet the intended purpose for the desired lifetime, for the predicted market, at the lowest cost practical. In other words, they avoided "over engineering" and instead practiced "adequate engineering". Their goal has been to produce a product that was "good enough", not one that is "better than enough".

BRP has, I am sure, had the goal of designing and building the Spyder to meet the needs of the vast majority of owners. They have no intention, nor need, to build a machine that satisfies the top 5% of discriminating buyers. If they did, the price would likely be 25 to 50% higher. Every part, including tires, is designed and built to satisfy the needs and wants of probably 85% of owners. I dare say that those of us who have been on this forum for many years are in the 15% of discriminating owners. Since BRP has not deliberately designed and built Spyders to the ultimate performance level some of us wish they would have, that tells you there is room for improvement in certain parts, like tires and spark plugs.

 

[Woodenfish]

...... Do you really believe BRP wanted KENDA to produce the BEST tire they could for the Spyders / Rykers ??????. I realize BRP didn't engineer the tires ... but it was their input to the manufacturer .... including what they were willing to pay for them. So Kenda gave them what they requested ..... basically a Marginal tire at a Very low cost ..... jmho .... Mike :thumbup:

I have no claim to inside knowledge at BRP engineering or the pencil pushers making their financial decisions. My question to you is there another “motorcycle tire” equivalent or better than the Kenda? I’m not talking car tires, strictly motorcycle. Something a Motorcycle manufacturer would look at for a new 3 wheel design motorcycle? I don’t know of any other tire manufacturer who had a tire design ready to go for a 3 wheel motorcycle in the weight class of BRP’s Spyders and Rykers.

 

[K80Shooter]

I thought this was a "Spark Plug" thread. :dontknow: opcorn:

 

[acdcking12]

It is now an anything goes thread.

 

[shakin_jake]

I thought this was a "Spark Plug" thread. :dontknow: opcorn:

~~~let me go on record saying I enjoy threads that go off thread. Nothing wrong with your POV K80


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

 

[K80Shooter]

~~~let me go on record saying I enjoy threads that go off thread. Nothing wrong with your POV K80


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

Honestly, I was just poking the bear to see what would happen. :thumbup: No offense meant towards anyone. :cheers:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Mike....I’ve been waiting for this post from you. I hesitated chiming in...waiting for THIS reply from our tire Guru.

Thank you .... I appreciate your kind words. I know the OP question concerned Spark Plugs. My comments were an answer to another members post on this Thread ...... Concerning the use of Auto tires on any Spyder .... I would LOVE for someone who believes this shouldn't be done ( unless lower PSI's are used ) ..... would explain Why they think this ????? .... They can start a New Thread about this topic .....Mike :thumbup: