Anyone have experience with Ultra1 Plus 15W50 oil for their 1330? Opinions?

[Cobranut]

I'm for a good oil for my new-to-me F3-S SM6.

Has anyone used this oil? The specs look good, and it's a good price in the 12 liter case.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultra1Plus-1...7DP1/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1

Opinions and experience is welcome.

Thanks,
David

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

15W-50? No.

 

[Cobranut]

Your username suggests you're in a cold climate.
I want additional viscosity due to the temps that it runs in hot weather.
I always ride easy until oil temps get up to normal.

 

[racoon]

Your username suggests you're in a cold climate.
I want additional viscosity due to the temps that it runs in hot weather.

You should do some research on what the oil viscosity numbers actually mean, which really has nothing to do with the air temperature.

And then I'd suggest following the recommendation of the engine designer, you know, BRP CAN-AM?

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Exactly. The outside air temperature is meaningless. It is nothing compared to the temperature that the oil experiences inside of your engine. 40 weight is what the engine manufacturer recommends for that, and 40 weight is just fine. Thicker is not always better, especially for a clutch.

If you’re THAT concerned about it, go to a 10W-40, maybe. Many run 10W-40 Amsoil. But not a 15W-50. Me? XPS oil change kit. One stop shop.

 

[Cobranut]

Thanks for the input.
I get that many people will stick with the manufacturers recommendation.
I'm more interested in the brand and formulation than the weight.
They offer it in 5w40 or 10w40 I'm sure. I'll decide on the weight based on oil temps and pressure, once I get my gauge installed.

The BRP oil isn't full synthetic, and I prefer the extra protection and cleanliness of synthetic oil.
This oil is also made in USA, which is a plus.

 

[Mikey]

Your bike, you decide your poison! But if I were you, I would let the old girl warm up well before I thrashed on it.:cheers:

 

[Deanna777]

I'm for a good oil for my new-to-me F3-S SM6.

Has anyone used this oil? The specs look good, and it's a good price in the 12 liter case.

https://www.amazon.com/Ultra1Plus-1...7DP1/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1

Opinions and experience is welcome.

Thanks,
David

Do not use a 15W-50 motorcycle oil.

Use a 10W-40 motorcycle oil, be sure it is 4 Stroke motorcycle oil, and be sure it is suitable for Wet Clutch systems, which the Spyders have.

I use 10w-40 Full synthetic 4 Stroke Motorcycle oil that is for Wet Clutch systems (I have been using it since 2014.) I had a 2014 RTS-SE6 (Since Sold) and my current Spyder is a 2023 F3 LTD Special Series, they both had the 1330 Ace engine. I have not had any problems with the above oil.


Deanna

 

[JayBros]

It's at least as hot where I live as it is where the OP resides. Amsoil Metric Full Synthetic 10W-40 is the way to go. If you're pinching pennies look at Walmart for Shell Rotella T-6. I have not used the latter.

 

[BertRemington]

With so many positive responses, I couldn't resist jumping in: I'm very pleased with Motul 7100 15W-50. For the first 3-4K miles the 5W oils are okay but then oil pressure falls off a cliff with air temperature over 70°F and gear changes are harsher. The Motul delays those effects past 5K miles. But then I'm coming up on 100K miles. YMMV.

 

[troop]

If riders live in a hot climate, why not use 10w50 m/c MA2 full syn oil ? I've used 15w50 in past bikes, but not in the Spyder. I doubt their would be any issues, other than a rackety cam chain tensioner in cold weather start up. I'll continue sticking to 10w40 oil, as 5w40 oils tend to shear too quickly.

 

[Cobranut]

If riders live in a hot climate, why not use 10w50 m/c MA2 full syn oil ? I've used 15w50 in past bikes, but not in the Spyder. I doubt their would be any issues, other than a rackety cam chain tensioner in cold weather start up. I'll continue sticking to 10w40 oil, as 5w40 oils tend to shear too quickly.

You kind of answered your own question.
Multiweight oils have added long-chain polymers that help thicken the oil at high temps.
Motorcycles are particularly hard on those oils, as the transmission shears those polymers down and the oil reverts toward it's base oil weight.

I'll probably stick with 10w40, unless I see a problem with oil pressure being too low. I'm too old to ride in really cold weather anyway. :roflblack:
If I lived in Phoenix, I'd definitely be looking at 20w50, as it's never that cold there.

 

[carbonation]

18cst @ 100c puts it at the bottom of the 50 weight scale. It will shear to a 40 weight in the 1330.
I'm not going to say yea or nay, the opinions are strong with people when it comes to oil and choice.
You can make a choice based on specs listed on their website.
I'm not a fan of wide spreads between the low and high numbers.
I recently ran a popular 15w40, and even spiked it with 20% of a 20w50. It was sheared to a low 40 weight ( and I mean almost a 30 weight) inside of 1200 miles. The trans and hydraulic shift tear up oils quick. But, there are a lot of people that follow the recommendation of 9k miles on Can Am 5w40, and they aren't blowing up on the side of the road.....

 

[Cobranut]

18cst @ 100c puts it at the bottom of the 50 weight scale. It will shear to a 40 weight in the 1330.
I'm not going to say yea or nay, the opinions are strong with people when it comes to oil and choice.
You can make a choice based on specs listed on their website.
I'm not a fan of wide spreads between the low and high numbers.
I recently ran a popular 15w40, and even spiked it with 20% of a 20w50. It was sheared to a low 40 weight ( and I mean almost a 30 weight) inside of 1200 miles. The trans and hydraulic shift tear up oils quick. But, there are a lot of people that follow the recommendation of 9k miles on Can Am 5w40, and they aren't blowing up on the side of the road.....

Thanks Carbonation, I agree with you on the wide spread oils. They're basically thin oils that are propped up with polymers.
I've always tended to run somewhat thicker oils than the manufacturers recommend.
My daily driver Ford Focus has over 340,000 miles with no internal problems and no significant oil consumption. I run 10w30 Mobil-1 in that, while the recommended oil is 5w20.

The only thing that I'm apprehensive about is the Ultra1 Plus oil seems to be pretty new. There aren't many reviews online about it.
Of course, that doesn't mean it's not great oil, it meets the specs, but more data is always good.

 

[BajaRon]

For the most part, 50w oil is designed for air cooled engines where the cylinders can get very hot. Heat thins oil. Excessive heat can thin excessively creating excessive wear. Starting with a very thick oil reduces the chance that it will get too thin to protect. However, a liquid cooled engine, as in our Spyders, will never see these high temperatures. And like everything in life, oil has its own trade-offs.

To understand why a 50w oil is not usually a good idea in any liquid cooled engine, I'd like to talk about the 2 main jobs of oil (Lubricate & Cool) and the reason I like to call it a 'Goldilocks' product.

Ideally, as hard as it may be to visualize. The right oil will prevent metal to metal contact almost completely. Providing a thin film between moving parts even under the most demanding conditions so that hard parts never touch each other. Compression rings at the top of the piston, cam lobes on lifters, and transmission gear teeth being among the biggest challenges.

As the oil viscosity increases, the ability to keep these surfaces separated also increases, as does oil pressure. But the increase in pressure is the result of resistance to movement which means delivery takes longer at initial startup (the greatest single contributor to wear) and less volume is delivered. Thicker oil also reduces capacity to absorb and transfer heat. Thinner oils do a better job of this. This same formula applies to the lower number with the exception that it is targeted towards the lowest temperature the engine will encounter at startup. Though I believe 5w to be thinner than needed, it is a better choice for our Spyders than 15w.

The goal is always to use the lowest viscosity that will keep parts separated in all expected conditions. Allowing for inevitable degradation which occurs with every lubricant. But especially so when an integrated transmission is part of the equation. This is one reason it concerns me that BRP's XPS oil typically shears down to around 20w at 5,000 miles. And why I recommend a full synthetic oil.

So, no. In most cases, 50w oil is not recommended. Yes, it will work. But are you looking for just OK, better, or ideal? In this case, thicker is not better.

 

[Peter Aawen]

.....


So, no. In most cases, 50w oil is not recommended. Yes, it will work. But are you looking for just OK, better, or ideal? In this case, thicker is not better.

And there's also the fact that needlessly running a heavier oil (like an SAE 50) more suited to much higher engine oil temps in an hi-tech, close tolerance, engine that's been optimised to use a certain weight range of oil AND THEN RARELY USES ANY OIL BETWEEN SERVICES (like the ROTAX 1330 ACE motors) can really mess with things like fuel economy (heavier oil, more internal drag, more gas consumed); engine longevity (greater wear on components that have tolerances that require finer oil than the long chain 'won't break down at high temp' molecules); and even outright performance (see fuel economy comments and Ron's comments on the changes in pressure/resistance etc. especially at start up, as that can work BOTH ways - if the oil is too heavy for the pump to pick up = low pressure; if it'll pick it up & move it, but it's bloody hard to move/push thru some spots = high pressure!); but also add to that the fact that without the higher engine/oil temps they're designed for, the heavier oil adds drag to the movement of every moving part inside the engine ALL THE TIME, too!! :banghead:

Don't laugh, if you want to confirm any/all of this for yourself, there's a lot of evidentiary data out there about it, just not readily accessible via a superficial glance and/or not looking beyond the usual (quite shallow) depths provided by social media sites & influencers, u-tube 'oil guru's' etc; but I've personally seen this occur on engine test beds; I've personally seen and experienced it on the track - running an oil that's too heavy for your engine & its operating temp, ie. an oil that has a higher SAE rating than your engine was ever intended to use, CAN be detrimental in a lot of ways, almost always costing you more in the short term for little, if any, gain; and usually contributing significantly to wearing your engine out quicker, if not actually destroying it, in the longer term. nojoke

But it is your Spyder and your choice - just not something that I'd ever do in the engine of a vehicle I wanted to keep and keep performing well; not even when riding here with Oz's high temps on my 998 V-twin Rotax Spyder, which has an engine that DOES use oil between scheduled changes and so has a far greater tolerance for heavier oils than any of the ROTAX ACE engines!

Good Luck! :cheers:

 

[Cobranut]

I had my fist ride with the oil pressure gauge today.
I find it odd that with the current oil (I assume it's the SPX 5w40, since the previous owner said he had it serviced at the dealer),
the pressure never got near the 58psi bypass pressure.
At cold startup, around 72 deg this morning, it had 50-52 psi, and after idling only a few minutes, OP was in the mid to lower 40's.

My wife and I left home, rode a couple miles until we hit the highway, and after about 20 miles at 70mph, oil pressure was running around 38-40 psi, and dropped to 7 psi at idle.
That's quite a bit lower than I'd prefer. It never got much above 40 psi hot, even at higher rpm.
My old Legends car, which used a Yamaha XJ-1200 engine, making about 130 hp. often ran 300 deg oil temp in race conditions.
Even at that temp, I still had around 15-20 psi idle, and 70 or so at high rpm's.

I'd feel much better with a bit more OP.
I ordered the 15w50 oil today, as I feel it's a good compromise for my riding style.
I never beat on a motor until it's warmed up, and I probably run it harder than most riders, though it's still street riding. It's nothing like the constant 8000 to 10500 rpm I was running the racecar.

Thanks everyone for the input, and I'll post back what my pressure does after an oil change.

 

[BertRemington]

Gotta disagree a little bit with BajaRon on this one. The oil performance characteristics are more than lubrication.

The 1330cc dry sump engine has two 26mm scavenge pumps, two 16mm scavenge pumps, one 16mm pressure pump, and an oil tank retaining valve, all of which are focused on getting a minimum of 0.8 bar (12 psi) pressurized oil into lubrication points. Cooling is assisted with an oil-to-water radiator. Lubrication is well provided for, at least south of the Canadian border.

The SE6 HCM has one scavenge pump and one pressure pump with two circuits, pilot to operate the solenoid valves and line to operate the clutch. The clutch includes integral oil cooling circuits and the TCM uses both line pressure and oil temperature to provide smooth shifts. Clearly oil viscosity is a concern here.

Which is why my oil choice is about HCM performance (smooth shifts and clutch engagement with minimal flare) rather than engine lubrication.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

I had my fist ride with the oil pressure gauge today.
I find it odd that with the current oil (I assume it's the SPX 5w40, since the previous owner said he had it serviced at the dealer),
the pressure never got near the 58psi bypass pressure.
At cold startup, around 72 deg this morning, it had 50-52 psi, and after idling only a few minutes, OP was in the mid to lower 40's.

My wife and I left home, rode a couple miles until we hit the highway, and after about 20 miles at 70mph, oil pressure was running around 38-40 psi, and dropped to 7 psi at idle.
That's quite a bit lower than I'd prefer. It never got much above 40 psi hot, even at higher rpm.
My old Legends car, which used a Yamaha XJ-1200 engine, making about 130 hp. often ran 300 deg oil temp in race conditions.
Even at that temp, I still had around 15-20 psi idle, and 70 or so at high rpm's.

I'd feel much better with a bit more OP.
I ordered the 15w50 oil today, as I feel it's a good compromise for my riding style.
I never beat on a motor until it's warmed up, and I probably run it harder than most riders, though it's still street riding. It's nothing like the constant 8000 to 10500 rpm I was running the racecar.

Thanks everyone for the input, and I'll post back what my pressure does after an oil change.

If you have the manual, then you already know that your oil pressure is within spec. The 58# "regulator" is meant to be more of a relief valve, than a regulator. Oil pumps create flow. They are a positive displacement pump. It is the resistance to flow that creates pressure. The oil pressure that you see is the function of the current flow rate and the corresponding resistance to flow. Your engine is operating as designed by the engineers at Rotax. What is to be gained by raising pressure with a higher viscosity oil? You can't increase total flow. That’s already limited by the pump. You can only increase resistance to flow, which may negatively impact flow through all those small channels, bearings, ports and nozzles. You don't have a worn out engine with large clearances, where the use of a higher viscosity oil increases flow to areas that are starved for oil- typically the top end. Personally, I think what you have here is a solution in search of a problem, but I wish you luck on your quest.

 

[troop]

And there's also the fact that needlessly running a heavier oil (like an SAE 50) more suited to much higher engine oil temps in an hi-tech, close tolerance, engine that's been optimised to use a certain weight range of oil AND THEN RARELY USES ANY OIL BETWEEN SERVICES (like the ROTAX 1330 ACE motors) can really mess with things like fuel economy (heavier oil, more internal drag, more gas consumed); engine longevity (greater wear on components that have tolerances that require finer oil than the long chain 'won't break down at high temp' molecules); and even outright performance (see fuel economy comments and Ron's comments on the changes in pressure/resistance etc. especially at start up, as that can work BOTH ways - if the oil is too heavy for the pump to pick up = low pressure; if it'll pick it up & move it, but it's bloody hard to move/push thru some spots = high pressure!); but also add to that the fact that without the higher engine/oil temps they're designed for, the heavier oil adds drag to the movement of every moving part inside the engine ALL THE TIME, too!! :banghead:

Don't laugh, if you want to confirm any/all of this for yourself, there's a lot of evidentiary data out there about it, just not readily accessible via a superficial glance and/or not looking beyond the usual (quite shallow) depths provided by social media sites & influencers, u-tube 'oil guru's' etc; but I've personally seen this occur on engine test beds; I've personally seen and experienced it on the track - running an oil that's too heavy for your engine & its operating temp, ie. an oil that has a higher SAE rating than your engine was ever intended to use, CAN be detrimental in a lot of ways, almost always costing you more in the short term for little, if any, gain; and usually contributing significantly to wearing your engine out quicker, if not actually destroying it, in the longer term. nojoke

But it is your Spyder and your choice - just not something that I'd ever do in the engine of a vehicle I wanted to keep and keep performing well; not even when riding here with Oz's high temps on my 998 V-twin Rotax Spyder, which has an engine that DOES use oil between scheduled changes and so has a far greater tolerance for heavier oils than any of the ROTAX ACE engines!

Good Luck! :cheers:

Can't imagine any Spyder owner running straight SAE 50w m/c oil in their Spyder