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Anyone have ceramic brake pads? Any experience with Traild ceramic pads?
- Thread starter Revjames
- Start date
BajaRon
Well-known member
Ceramic is not a good friction material for a motorcycle. That's why they are so hard to find. Reputable brake manufacturer's know this and simply provide materials that work well for the application. It's mostly unknown (My guess is Chinese) sources that provide the ceramic pads that you can find.
If you want to stop, get Sintered brake pads. Stopping when you need to is better than more easily cleaned wheels.
If you want to stop, get Sintered brake pads. Stopping when you need to is better than more easily cleaned wheels.
Absolutely, stopping when needed is better than ease in cleaning. My main consideration though was longevity. I was disappointed at pad life on my OE’s. It is something of an emergency now as I noticed some grooving in the outside of the right front rotor, at only 15K. So my Spyder is parked (raining every day lately anyway) and I will be replacing at least that rotor as well. I figure that when doing one rotor, it's probably a good idea to do both.
Thanks all for the input. And Ron, I had already planned to call you Monday to chat about this very topic.
BajaRon
Well-known member
15k is not a typical lifespan, especially for the fronts. I'm wondering if there might be an issue with the offending caliper. Check to see if one side is wearing more quickly than the other.
Those riders who use engine braking typically see longer brake pad life (and better rotor health) than those who do not use this option. The OEM rotors are fairly soft. But some scoring isn't going to necessarily mean replacement.
If replacement is in the cards, I highly recommend EBC rotors. You'll need to replace both, as the EBC rotors stop better than the OEM rotors do. You don't want uneven stopping power on the front wheels.
Those riders who use engine braking typically see longer brake pad life (and better rotor health) than those who do not use this option. The OEM rotors are fairly soft. But some scoring isn't going to necessarily mean replacement.
If replacement is in the cards, I highly recommend EBC rotors. You'll need to replace both, as the EBC rotors stop better than the OEM rotors do. You don't want uneven stopping power on the front wheels.
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I wondered that same thing. I do use engine braking a fair amount I feel. I have pretty much settled on EBC rotors. The inside of the right front rotor does not have any noticeable grooving. The outside isn’t bad, but it's definitely not as smooth as the inside; the left rotor seems good. My bike is a 2022 F3 Ltd with BEST warranty. Thinking about that now, I wonder... do I need to get a dealer and BEST involved?
BajaRon
Well-known member
As a side note, it has always puzzled me that F3's seem to have more brake issues than the RT. Since the RT is a heavier machine to begin with, and in addition, more heavily loaded, as a rule. You'd think that would be where warped rotors and burnt up brake pads would be found. But in my experience, not so. The only thing I can think of is that F3 riders are more aggressive.
Any warranty replacement will be with OEM parts. It's a reasonable approach. Typically, brake components are considered 'Wear' items and are not covered. But it never hurts to give it a shot.
Thanks again Ron for chiming in on my thread! Loads of valuable information. The OEM parts are a drawback, but I am concerned that there may be an issue with that right caliper. I do plan to pull both front tires and compare all pads, hopefully this week. One more question, is the Spyder like a car in that the front brakes wear roughly twice as fast as rear?
A little bit of a deviation away from the actual topic here, but still related...
I think the Nanny might have something to do with that bit Ron... Without going too deep into the technical stuff, the first 'full on, absolutely to the limit (under test conditions) Emergency Stop' that I did on my 2013 RT (well before F3's hit the streets) I thought I was braced and ready for it - but I wasn't braced enough, nor prepared for the awesome stopping power of the Brembo brakes on our Spyders.
(Altho, as an aside, just thinking about it a little more, maybe the lighter V-twin 2013 RT's with Brembo brakes stop even better than the heavier 1330's?! 
)Anyhoo, I got the Spyder up to speed as per normal, hit the marker and stomped on the brake pedal - the floorboard dropped away, the braking forces lifted the rear wheel a good few inches off the ground, and despite being braced well, I smacked my full face helmet faceplate so hard on the top of the windshield that it shattered the face plate and damned near took out my front teeth!!
But the Nanny cut in, the ABS did it's thing, and I didn't go over the top; the rear wheel came down and I stopped very tidily and QUICKLY!! The important & applicable thing to note here tho, is that pretty much as soon as the rear wheel lifted (& the speed sensor registered that it'd stopped turning) the Nanny cut in & eased out the braking a tad to bring the rear of the Spyder back down & keep everything under control, all while still stopping within a much shorter distance than anything else we'd ever had on that braking test bed!! 
File that away and move ahead a few years...
Once the F3's hit the streets, and I first got one on the test track a few months later (I've had a few more out there since too) it rapidly became clear that they stop very well, a little better than the RT's, which is probably not surprising considering the weight difference... BUT, I have NEVER been able to repeat the 'lift a rear wheel'/do the 'RT Stoppie' thing on an F3 - done it heaps of times on a number of different RT's, but NEVER on an F3!! No matter which model; no matter HOW HARD I stomp, the F3's seating position/weight distribution in relation to the brake pedal, their frame geometry, and the Nanny's settings are such that there's no way an F3's rear wheel is coming off the ground just under braking forces - but ALL of those forces are still directed into stopping the Spyder, and stopping it QUICKLY!! Sure, the OEM tires are a limiting factor here; but even with high performance grippy tires fitted, up to temp, and in good condition on a sticky track, the back end of an F3 is in no danger of lifting off the deck just under braking forces, so ALL of the stopping forces are directed into the brakes, and mainly the front brakes at that, before the Nanny gets called upon to do her thing!! However, that's unlike what happens on an RT, where the Nanny steps in juuuust a little sooner because of the higher CoG and the tendency to do that 'RT Stoppie' thing - the F3's have no such tendency, so the Nanny can let things go juuust a little further, and that puts more braking forces into the brakes.
Soo, the Nanny still/certainly steps in when necessary, and the ABS hammers away, but because of their configuration/frame geometry/weight distribution, I reckon the F3's put more stopping energy into their (mainly the front?) brakes than the RT's BEFORE the Nanny steps in, and I believe that is why you see more brake issues in the F3's than on the RT's.
Make sense?? Ps: Back on the specific 'ceramic pads' thing - James, I haven't run ceramic pads/brakes on a Spyder, but I have run them (either/both) on other vehicles, and seriously, if you don't REALLY need/use your brakes to their absolute limit/extreme, then ceramic pads are waaaayyy too much of PITA for safe/comfortable day-to-day use on a Spyder!!
Sure, they'll last forever if you never get them up to temp, but they'll never work 'really well' if you don't! However, once you do get them warmed up properly, they can work really well, but only while they ARE up to temp, and that's effectively only while you're using them all the time! You simply won't/can't use your brakes that hard/that much in anything like 'normal road use' for your (lightweight & over-braked) Spyder, nor anywhere really too much short of competition &/or track work, and they'll likely make your life miserable if not downright dangerous if you try to use them in lesser circumstances!! Just Sayin'
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My only experience with ceramic pads was back when vehicle manufacturers started coming out with all wheel disc brakes. Ceramics didn't seem to stop you any faster, but they did wear out discs and warped them faster than conventional pads. Stopped me - from using ceramic pads!
Mikey
Well-known member
I would try a set of EBC's, and there are some neat tools to buy for cleaning rims!Absolutely, stopping when needed is better than ease in cleaning. My main consideration though was longevity. I was disappointed at pad life on my OE’s. It is something of an emergency now as I noticed some grooving in the outside of the right front rotor, at only 15K. So my Spyder is parked (raining every day lately anyway) and I will be replacing at least that rotor as well. I figure that when doing one rotor, it's probably a good idea to do both.
Thanks all for the input. And Ron, I had already planned to call you Monday to chat about this very topic.
BajaRon
Well-known member
Actually, just the opposite. Though it's still true (you can't fight physics) that the fronts provide about 70% of potential stopping power. With the Spyder, the rear brake comes on first and releases last. This is to help stabilize the bike when stopping. The result is that the rear pads tend to wear faster than the fronts.
On the early, Chinese brake component bikes, 2008-2012, it was typically a 2 to 1 wear ratio for the rear. BRP reduced the bias with the Brembo system in 2013 and the bias is less. But you should always check the rear pads as they will almost always go first.
How you ride will make a difference. If you do a lot of very hard stopping, the 70% front component comes into play and the fronts will wear faster than the rear. But if most of your braking is gentle, which it how it is for the great majority. Then the rear brake ends up doing the lion's share of the work and those pads will go first.
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In response to your post, Peter. I am impressed that you got the rear wheel off the ground while braking. I've done some crazy things with my Spyders. But I've never accomplished that one!
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