Any Update to the Update Yet?

[jwfranklin]

After riding my Spyder most all Day Sunday. I came to the decision it wasn't good good me to do so. They more I rode the mader I got. By the end of the day, when anybody asked about the Spyder, all I could tell them, it is a piece of junk, made by a company that doesn't seem to care about there customers. they messed it up, they should fix it. Rode the Boss Hoss Monday, the old school machine, without all the computor stuff. ran good, was very relaxing and enjoyable to ride. Came Home in a much better mood. I personally could care less about the events or gifts, All I want is for my Spyder to run like it did before the update. Is that to much to ask for?

 

[Batmobile]

My sputtering was fixed when I had a second dealer redo the download and follow all the steps correctly(recalibrating everything and properly clearing fault codes). Might want to give it a try.:dontknow: Now it's running like it did before the update.

 

[bjt]

I am curious who your dealer is? Is it Great Lakes Powersports in Flint?

No, we go to NordRide in Mt. Morris.

My first (and second) impression of Great Lakes Powersports has us staying away from them. :sour:

 

[dltang]

I am curious who your dealer is? Is it Great Lakes Powersports in Flint?

No, we go to NordRide in Mt. Morris.

My first (and second) impression of Great Lakes Powersports has us staying away from them. :sour:

As bjt stated we have no been overly impressed with Great Lakes from the very beginning. I can not really respond to their service dept as we have never taken our spyder to them for service. We get all of our work done at Nord Ride in Mt. Morris. We went into Great Lakes again this past weekend just to look at some riding apparel and just general stuff and they still didn't impress me. We were talking to some people that were looking at the spyders they had on display and once again, they knew less than us.

 

[Tom in NM]

Yes, just slide that soap box over here . . . . . . . .

Okay guys, please don't everyone jump on me here. There is a lot of BRP bashing going on. I realize that the spyders are having some issues after the updates but I really think you need to look a little closer to home. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Okay, I am getting off my soap box now before someone knocks me off.

. . . . besides the bashing, I find the inaccuracies and gross generalizations to be both mind boggling, sad, and even dangerous in a way.

What really got to me, was what happened to one of our fellow members last week. They posted they were far from home and had suffered a major breakdown. Instead of "help", support, or suggestions some members here told them that was just how BRP worked, waste of time - summed up, it was "you are screwed and BRP does not care". What made it pitiful was this continued even after BRP and the dealership came through with a creative solution and got the rider back on the road. If that rider had followed the "advice" given, it would have cost them thousands of dollars, a ruined vacation, AND their Spyder would still be toast. It was a perfect example of careless, inaccurate, uncaring and irresponsible advice.

I have had no problems with my Spyder or the update. Period. But, I follow the threads on it closely. There is a lot of great advice from some very knowledgeable and credible people - then there are the others that just whine. Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when they constantly twist the facts, misrepresent statements and repel all offers of commonsense and courtesy, it is time to take docdoru's advice: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=140453&postcount=2

I feel sorry for all the people who are new to the forum, that don't have the advantage of seeing those posts for what they are. And for all the other members that feel they need to jump in and provide some context so the forum is not just another internet Whine Cellar.

. . . . . OK, anyone want Deb's soapbox next?

Tom

 

[Don in E Texas]

Actually if I really get on the throttle all thru the gears it runs fine, its the casual driving when it sputters, is that what you guys are experiencing?

Yep! Usually by down shifting to lower gear smooths things out a bit. Took my bike(08 SE5) in yesterday for 6,000 mile checkup - mechanic said they should have patch for the fuel mapping come out "soon". Their demo bike (09 SE5) rides terrible as well. Shame, I had ridden it both before and after the 'fix' and know how super smooth the bike was. No mod's to either bike except seats, saddle bags, etc. I'm an optimist and feel BRP will have us all fixed up soon and this will be but a bad memory.

don

 

[FANG]

Deb - Not jumping but have concerns -- my dealer is very good too. Gives me good solid advice about the :spyder2: when I ask and has gone above and beyond the call when it comes to seeing my :spyder2: stays on the road.

But before I took the :spyder2: in for the recall - my ryde was great and I rode it like I stole it - I am basically stock - stock exhaust - only extras are listed - NMN Green Air filter only mod to the engine. My spyder runs rough across a range from 3800 - 4500 RPM. Didn't do that before the update -- fair drop in gas mileage too now.

Don't get me wrong I am not on here bashing BRP - but the update did things that are making people concerned about the ryde. Dealers are not allowed to diagnose problems -- the BUDS has to be hooked up and then BRP tells the dealer what to try to fix. The computer settings are the same for everyone and I for oine feel that my weather conditions in FL being much different from yours up north may need different adjustsment to help my spyder run well. I see alot of people from warmer climates being the ones complaining.

I for one cannot afford a JB so I can make adjustments to my fuel and air mixture at this time. I depend on BRP and the dealer to keep my :spyder2: running its best (I am not a mechanic never owned a bike before and I don't work on my cars either). So I am at their mercy. I need their help to correct a problem that did not exist before the update. I have not complained as I watch the board and I know BRP has been inundated with complaints - I am patiently waiting but concerned.

Have a great day and I value your comments all the time.

Okay guys, please don't everyone jump on me here. There is a lot of BRP bashing going on. I realize that the spyders are having some issues after the updates but I really think you need to look a little closer to home. I think there are an awful lot of dealer service departments that are trying to fix everything as easy and quickly as possible. They may not be doing every little step needed to get the update loaded correctly. BJT posted this in another thread, I will have to find it. We have been very happy with our dealer and on top of that, his communication with BRP has been top notch. I have had everything done under warranty on my spyder and it is running great right now. Heck they even sent me new rear fender brackets when my dealer showed them the stress cracks. Your dealer has to be able to go to bat for you. I think it is very easy for the service dept to lay the blame elsewhere when they aren't able to do the work. This is just my opinion and my .02 but I know in the past it has been terribly hard to find a reliable, honest and dependable auto mechanic. Why should I find it so hard to believe that it is any different in the Powersports world.

BRP has done a lot of really great things for the spyder owners in the short time the spyder has been out. How many of us have taken the time to say Thank you for the good things. Owners are blaming the marketing folks and people like Carlo that field the questions for us and everyone else. I for one would like to thank BRP for the extra fun I've had in my life since March of 2008. The little extras that they've given like the Homecoming event, the small gifts, the LA Event, the gift certificates last year in Gatlinburg even though it wasn't an official BRP event. Okay, I am getting off my soap box now before someone knocks me off.

 

[Smylinacha]

I never run the Spyder in 5th gear under 55 mph (or 60). The Spyder has a high revving engine and it loves to spin. :thumbup: Some folks here don't hit 5th gear until 60 or higher and have no problems. hyea:

70+ here for 5th gear:2thumbs: I can do 4th at 50+

 

[bcspyder]

One of the interesting things about the Spyder is that it is bringing in a new class of rider. Maybe a little older and not as likely to be mechanically oriented. When problems arise thay are definately relying on their dealer to take care of the issues and just want it fixed. I totally understand and I believe that BRP is learning as well.

At the other end are the tinkerers (like me) who enjoy doing their own maintenance and figuring things out. Creating my own coil fix was easy and only took two beers! Remember that the web only magnifies problems. When I talked to BRP (Carlo) he made a good point. While they are aware of the problems that are occuring and are progressing forward, the percentages are not at all what you would think if you read this forum. My brother in law owns an F-150 that has spent an inordinate amount of time in the shop, but that doesn't make it a horrible vehicle that people should stay away from. I hope that the few issues can get worked out and that this forum will continue to be a source of info and support for riders and dealers.

The work that needs to occur moving forward is between the dealers and Corporate to ensure that information is shared quickly and that they are all on the same page. Many of these posts show conflicting info from dealers. One dealer says one thing, another has a different answer. That is frustrating. Many people have had issues dealt with by simply changing dealers and technicians. Are they not doing their homework, or is BRP not keeping them informed?? Not sure, but that is an area where some focus needs to be directed.

 

[docdoru]

:2thumbs: I can do 4th at 50+

I'm only 49...:shocked:

 

[effgjamis]

I wonder how many Police Departments who have spyders get the same treatment as we do or have regarding the broken update.
I am going to check with Sqt. Evan at KPD tomorrow to see if they have had the update or not.

 

[bcspyder]

How the heck does Carlo know what the percentages are?? That statement is nothing more than Carlo AND BRP blowing smoke up their collective a$$es and ours, trying to make everyone feel better about their ill running Spyders.......

HEY CARLO-
AT LEAST 40% ARE NOT HAPPY!!

I hope BRP reads that........



Where are you getting your numbers? From the people that responded to the poll here? If you know anything about statistics you would not identify this group as a great example of a representative sample. Certainly you are not suggesting that 40% of all owners are not happy...that would be 6-7,000 unhappy customers...come on. I am sorry that you are not enjoying yor ride but I am not surprised you have received less than satisfactory service.

 

[bigdog69]

whine

. . . . besides the bashing, I find the inaccuracies and gross generalizations to be both mind boggling, sad, and even dangerous in a way.

What really got to me, was what happened to one of our fellow members last week. They posted they were far from home and had suffered a major breakdown. Instead of "help", support, or suggestions some members here told them that was just how BRP worked, waste of time - summed up, it was "you are screwed and BRP does not care". What made it pitiful was this continued even after BRP and the dealership came through with a creative solution and got the rider back on the road. If that rider had followed the "advice" given, it would have cost them thousands of dollars, a ruined vacation, AND their Spyder would still be toast. It was a perfect example of careless, inaccurate, uncaring and irresponsible advice.

I have had no problems with my Spyder or the update. Period. But, I follow the threads on it closely. There is a lot of great advice from some very knowledgeable and credible people - then there are the others that just whine. Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, but when they constantly twist the facts, misrepresent statements and repel all offers of commonsense and courtesy, it is time to take docdoru's advice: http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=140453&postcount=2

I feel sorry for all the people who are new to the forum, that don't have the advantage of seeing those posts for what they are. And for all the other members that feel they need to jump in and provide some context so the forum is not just another internet Whine Cellar.

. . . . . OK, anyone want Deb's soapbox next?

Tom

I am whining I have two spyder they missed up. I called brp they said we are working on a update. I had the update on 8/4/09 still no up date to the up date. one is a 2008 with around 8500 miles had no problems until up date. The other is a new 2009 I got it 7/5/09 it only had 1000 on it now it runs like crap also. Ok I am done whining I have had brp to take care of other problems I had with my 2008. ps. both spyers are in the shop they do not have a up date yet.

 

[bcspyder]

I won't go into a monologue about stats, it is pretty boring, but if we WERE a represenatative sample then we can assume that 40% of ALL owners should be experiencing problems. Do you feel that is a fair number? I am sorry I don't. The people who use the web for information purposes like this tend to be those who are having issues, and they go looking to find the scope. If they come here they would feel like ALL the bikes are running poorly. Or at least 40% of them. I think that is an issue for those of us who are happy.

To be clear here, I am NOT saying everything is rosy and there are no issues. What I will continue to say is that there are growing pains, and in spite of them I do not regret my purchase for a second. Those whose Spyders are running fine probably don't do alot of surfing trying to find others whose bikes are running well.

I simply have not had the experience you have had and my purchase has been overall a positive one. I have talked to Carlo several times and if you feel that he is a corporate puppet then so be it; I do not share that opinion. Yes, he is there as a company representative and like any of us in his position is doing his best to support BRP, but he also focuses on information gathering and dealing directly with consumers. In fact when it comes to brake squeal that many are experiencing (mine as well, but fixed with some brake disc quiet) Carlo's personal machine is affected.

I notice the HD in your avatar and I ask you this, does every HD come glitch free?? I am sure that you also are on many HD forums and are aware of some of the issues ie 110" and overheating that the factory has had a hard time figuring out. I ran into a guy yesterday who has a beautiful 07 softail who has difficulty riding in the summer because the heat from the oil bag roasts his right leg. Should HD rebuild that bike or do people just put up with the heat?

When I bought my Victory in 05 they were still only a few years into the production of an entirely new design. Mine has had nothing but oil changes but there were bugs and some felt that Victory was slow to come to the front line. True analysis points to the fact that Victory is one of the most robust machines out there and scores tops for reliability in all consumer reports. As the curve on dealer numbers and knowledge got better so did the quality of service. As the techs get more experience on the front line they become the problem solvers, often ahead of corp. I think that is the issue we are experiencing now. The dealers and technicians are still building their knowledge base and as they do problem solving becomes easier and increased customer satisfaction follows.

 

[effgjamis]

update

This is a follow up... and the local dealer recommended to the KPD not to do the update at this point... Hummm I guess they are still running and catching trafic violators.
I have not been able to speak with Norm and hopefully he will be a the ride (USO ) This sunday.. I will then ask.

 

[effgjamis]

I won't go into a monologue about stats, it is pretty boring, but if we WERE a represenatative sample then we can assume that 40% of ALL owners should be experiencing problems. Do you feel that is a fair number? I am sorry I don't. The people who use the web for information purposes like this tend to be those who are having issues, and they go looking to find the scope. If they come here they would feel like ALL the bikes are running poorly. Or at least 40% of them. I think that is an issue for those of us who are happy.

To be clear here, I am NOT saying everything is rosy and there are no issues. What I will continue to say is that there are growing pains, and in spite of them I do not regret my purchase for a second. Those whose Spyders are running fine probably don't do alot of surfing trying to find others whose bikes are running well.

I simply have not had the experience you have had and my purchase has been overall a positive one. I have talked to Carlo several times and if you feel that he is a corporate puppet then so be it; I do not share that opinion. Yes, he is there as a company representative and like any of us in his position is doing his best to support BRP, but he also focuses on information gathering and dealing directly with consumers. In fact when it comes to brake squeal that many are experiencing (mine as well, but fixed with some brake disc quiet) Carlo's personal machine is affected.

I notice the HD in your avatar and I ask you this, does every HD come glitch free?? I am sure that you also are on many HD forums and are aware of some of the issues ie 110" and overheating that the factory has had a hard time figuring out. I ran into a guy yesterday who has a beautiful 07 softail who has difficulty riding in the summer because the heat from the oil bag roasts his right leg. Should HD rebuild that bike or do people just put up with the heat?

When I bought my Victory in 05 they were still only a few years into the production of an entirely new design. Mine has had nothing but oil changes but there were bugs and some felt that Victory was slow to come to the front line. True analysis points to the fact that Victory is one of the most robust machines out there and scores tops for reliability in all consumer reports. As the curve on dealer numbers and knowledge got better so did the quality of service. As the techs get more experience on the front line they become the problem solvers, often ahead of corp. I think that is the issue we are experiencing now. The dealers and technicians are still building their knowledge base and as they do problem solving becomes easier and increased customer satisfaction follows.

Not so sure you are really aware of the US problem.
I don't disagree with most of your statement, however, When I take my spyder to a dealer, running great, mileage in the 30-35 pulling a trailer from Fl to CA and return, then the update was applied I now get 22 mpg without pulling the trailer and the sputtering and surge of the engine is horrible. So, Regardless of percentages, I am one, and my spyder has been screwed up by the update.
I hope you are not offended by this but how many miles do you ride, at 77 years of age I expect something to work for my hard earned money, and not ghost ware that doesn't work.

 

[Smylinacha]

How the heck does Carlo know what the percentages are?? That statement is nothing more than Carlo AND BRP blowing smoke up their collective a$ and ours, trying to make everyone feel better about their ill running Spyders.......

HEY CARLO-
AT LEAST 40% ARE NOT HAPPY!!

I hope BRP reads that........

That was funny:roflblack: .... very true too

 

[bcspyder]

Not so sure you are really aware of the US problem.
I don't disagree with most of your statement, however, When I take my spyder to a dealer, running great, mileage in the 30-35 pulling a trailer from Fl to CA and return, then the update was applied I now get 22 mpg without pulling the trailer and the sputtering and surge of the engine is horrible. So, Regardless of percentages, I am one, and my spyder has been screwed up by the update.
I hope you are not offended by this but how many miles do you ride, at 77 years of age I expect something to work for my hard earned money, and not ghost ware that doesn't work.

I am not offended at all. I have been riding some sort of wheeled vehicle for more than 35 years. Unfortunately not year round but I have racked up more than my share of miles. When I looked at the Spyder I was a little apprehensive about the electronics, I am more of a "V-8 and a four barrel" kind of a guy. The test ride sold me. Left for a half hour and came back 4 hours later!

My bike ran perfect when I first got it three months ago and, coincidentally, not very well after the update. I had surging and an inconsisitent tranny at rest. If you read my post regarding the steering issue I had it was severe and scared the **** out of me. However, my dealer was right on it and got the problem fixed ASAP. An adjustment to the tranny and a coil fix removed all the issues. I realize I may be a fortunate one with my dealer, and all I am saying in this forum is that we should be careful about making the assumption that everyone is unhappy. Even with the glitches I am still enjoying the hell out of this ride. My Victory is not seeing very much action these days!

 

[Tom in NM]

OK . . . I will give you my take on it

Please tell me why a poll on this subject, on this forum, wouldn't be indicative of Spyder ownership in general? I'm not 'suggesting' a thing, over 40% of those who answered the poll, state their Spyder runs worse since the update. Why would Spyderlovers members have different results than the general population? Maybe Carlo can explain that for us...........:dontknow:

The poll indicates something, but not much.

• Is it all owners? Could non-owners vote? Did people create new IDs and vote again and again?
• It is from a point in time - some Spyders had a problems develop later - some got better - the numbers are not current/right now.
• Did everybody from this forum with a Spyder vote? and is Spyderlovers.com a good representative sample of owners?
• Was it the update, or something else? "I had the update done when my Hindle was installed, now my Spyder is too loud - even my neighbors are complaining" or "None of my Juice Box settings are working after the update and my Spyder runs like crap!" or "After having the update and service done, my brakes squeal - I am not a happy camper!"
• Another set of numbers from the forum shows 154 people have entered ESI's September contest - 279 have voted in the Update Poll. Are both numbers representative of forum active Spyder owners? Of Spyder owners world-wide?

So, what would be more "accurate"? I would guess that BRP would have the number. Total # of Spyders on the road. Total # of Spyders with the Update. Total number of complaints/problems reported resulting from the update.

Given the amount of data collected by the Spyder's computer and what is probably uploaded to BRP, they probably have lots of info (dealer, general rider driving habits, model, customer settings, general geographic location and maybe even operating temps.

All this "data" can be analyzed and cross referenced with part batches, run time hours, dealer update success rates, sensor settings and come up with some patterns of update failure to research and test further and fixes.

They probably don't have info on add-ons, gas grades, modifications, total vehicle weight, general vehicle condition. BRP is not psychic.

Key to all of this is that problems be reported to BRP, not just posted on an internet forum or by a phone call to a dealer. If BRP does not have your VIN and a description of what you are experiencing, you do not have a problem. And, resolutions - "Oh, my Spyder is running fine now - I'm good!" - so only problem cases can be focused on.

To keep it all in perspective, the problems that most are referencing are engine "tuning problems" and the worse cases I have heard of are computer failures.

People are having problems since the update. The solutions are not coming fast enough for them.

My opinion is BRP could have done a better job on the update - but not knowing the real number of issues it has generated or why, I don't know how much better. Personally, I would prefer more communication, but if BRP does not have anything it can to commit to yet, that probably will not be seen as helpful to the owners who are waiting.

I also think they are behind the curve on customer management on this problem. If they had an owners section where you could register a problem post update and track it, that might help - at least those with computers.

So, Bones, that ( and more ) is why this poll and lots of others like it are not worth a lot. If you want to believe it as fact or representational and supportive of your opinions, you can. For me, I know some riders are having problems, but I would not put any money on the poll numbers and ratios as being "good enough". I would put it on par with Daily Horoscopes.

Tom

 

[bcspyder]

The poll indicates something, but not much.

• Is it all owners? Could non-owners vote? Did people create new IDs and vote again and again?
• It is from a point in time - some Spyders had a problems develop later - some got better - the numbers are not current/right now.
• Did everybody from this forum with a Spyder vote? and is Spyderlovers.com a good representative sample of owners?
• Was it the update, or something else? "I had the update done when my Hindle was installed, now my Spyder is too loud - even my neighbors are complaining" or "None of my Juice Box settings are working after the update and my Spyder runs like crap!" or "After having the update and service done, my brakes squeal - I am not a happy camper!"
• Another set of numbers from the forum shows 154 people have entered ESI's September contest - 279 have voted in the Update Poll. Are both numbers representative of forum active Spyder owners? Of Spyder owners world-wide?

So, what would be more "accurate"? I would guess that BRP would have the number. Total # of Spyders on the road. Total # of Spyders with the Update. Total number of complaints/problems reported resulting from the update.

Given the amount of data collected by the Spyder's computer and what is probably uploaded to BRP, they probably have lots of info (dealer, general rider driving habits, model, customer settings, general geographic location and maybe even operating temps.

All this "data" can be analyzed and cross referenced with part batches, run time hours, dealer update success rates, sensor settings and come up with some patterns of update failure to research and test further and fixes.

They probably don't have info on add-ons, gas grades, modifications, total vehicle weight, general vehicle condition. BRP is not psychic.

Key to all of this is that problems be reported to BRP, not just posted on an internet forum or by a phone call to a dealer. If BRP does not have your VIN and a description of what you are experiencing, you do not have a problem. And, resolutions - "Oh, my Spyder is running fine now - I'm good!" - so only problem cases can be focused on.

To keep it all in perspective, the problems that most are referencing are engine "tuning problems" and the worse cases I have heard of are computer failures.

People are having problems since the update. The solutions are not coming fast enough for them.

My opinion is BRP could have done a better job on the update - but not knowing the real number of issues it has generated or why, I don't know how much better. Personally, I would prefer more communication, but if BRP does not have anything it can to commit to yet, that probably will not be seen as helpful to the owners who are waiting.

I also think they are behind the curve on customer management on this problem. If they had an owners section where you could register a problem post update and track it, that might help - at least those with computers.

So, Bones, that ( and more ) is why this poll and lots of others like it are not worth a lot. If you want to believe it as fact or representational and supportive of your opinions, you can. For me, I know some riders are having problems, but I would not put any money on the poll numbers and ratios as being "good enough". I would put it on par with Daily Horoscopes.

Tom

:clap::agree::clap: