Another tire question.. Summer or all season (Spyder RS-S)

[deadboltdon]

I have been spending the last few days researching tires for the front of my 2011 RSS. Maybe a new rear (replaced once and not liking the Toyo Proxxess 4.)
The factory size 165/65/r14. I have noticed quite a few have gone to the 185/60/14 this opens up a lot more options.

I have horrible shaking (front) at anything over 80-90 KM/H I have used the ride on liquid balancing in the rear and loved the difference. Added it to the fronts last year and helped slightly but not enough. While I had the shop add the ride on they showed me my sidewalls were cracking. This year I plan on more highway riding so need to get this fixed, for safety and piece of mind.

Being in Canada I have limited access to some of the brands you guys have.

My question is, will a "summer" tire be best suited on the spyder? I can only ride in summer anyway in Winnipeg MB. CA. May till Sept. early November sometimes.:dontknow:
From what I think I know, a all/no season tire will be louder on the highway. Same with "Winter tires in summer".

I am looking at 2 options IF summer is the way to go.

Weastlake SA57 -$82 CAN each.
https://www.partsengine.ca/44030-vp-west-lake-407.aspx

or Zeta ZTR20 - $70 CAN each
https://www.partsengine.ca/ZT1856014N-vp-zeta-tires-484.aspx

The Zeta has a matching 205-60-15 that could work on the rear if I decide to get all my tires from this one guy IN Canada.
I have read good things about the Vee Rubber on here.
I have found a Vee Rubber Arachnid for the rear in stock size. That can ship to me. And because it it "listed" as a "MOTORCYCLE TIRE" It should come duty exempt across the border.
In the end ANYTHING is better than the factory Kendas!
What is sickening is the 2 front tires are cheaper than the alignment will cost! And the shop I HAVE to deal with took 2 days to get that cost for me AFTER I called them back......... May drive to the next province to get this done, this shop feels like they don't care about the spyders that much any more.

For the guys that did the 185/60/14 wider tire in the front did you have any issues getting a alignment done? Or Did you get one done and everything is still same as before tire swap?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I have been spending the last few days researching tires for the front of my 2011 RSS. Maybe a new rear (replaced once and not liking the Toyo Proxxess 4.)
The factory size 165/65/r14. I have noticed quite a few have gone to the 185/60/14 this opens up a lot more options.

I have horrible shaking (front) at anything over 80-90 KM/H I have used the ride on liquid balancing in the rear and loved the difference. Added it to the fronts last year and helped slightly but not enough. While I had the shop add the ride on they showed me my sidewalls were cracking. This year I plan on more highway riding so need to get this fixed, for safety and piece of mind.

Being in Canada I have limited access to some of the brands you guys have.

My question is, will a "summer" tire be best suited on the spyder? I can only ride in summer anyway in Winnipeg MB. CA. May till Sept. early November sometimes.:dontknow:
From what I think I know, a all/no season tire will be louder on the highway. Same with "Winter tires in summer".

I am looking at 2 options IF summer is the way to go.

Weastlake SA57 -$82 CAN each.
https://www.partsengine.ca/44030-vp-west-lake-407.aspx

or Zeta ZTR20 - $70 CAN each
https://www.partsengine.ca/ZT1856014N-vp-zeta-tires-484.aspx

The Zeta has a matching 205-60-15 that could work on the rear if I decide to get all my tires from this one guy IN Canada.
I have read good things about the Vee Rubber on here.
I have found a Vee Rubber Arachnid for the rear in stock size. That can ship to me. And because it it "listed" as a "MOTORCYCLE TIRE" It should come duty exempt across the border.
In the end ANYTHING is better than the factory Kendas!
What is sickening is the 2 front tires are cheaper than the alignment will cost! And the shop I HAVE to deal with took 2 days to get that cost for me AFTER I called them back......... May drive to the next province to get this done, this shop feels like they don't care about the spyders that much any more.

For the guys that did the 185/60/14 wider tire in the front did you have any issues getting a alignment done? Or Did you get one done and everything is still same as before tire swap?

I'll tell what I know about tires ( got a week :roflblack: ) ...... seriously .... tires do have an operational temperature range ..... Yes it they have quite a bit of overlap .... from what I've learned summer tires can get a bit squirrely @ about 40-45 degree's F , all season @ about -10 F ..... The big plus for ALL-season tires is their WET road handling compared to SUMMER tires ..... I don't know anything about the tires you mentioned ..... On BAD vibes, in my experience for SPYDERS is the rear tire is rarely a cause of vibes ....un-like the fronts ... ( this is for NON-defective tires only - Kenda's are the worst ) ..... if you have front vibes it's the tire/wheel balance .... if it was alignment - it would have to SO bad ther Spyder would need to be un-drivable. .....PS the Arachnid was modeled after the Kenda and it isn't any better - might be worse ...... Don't bother trying to achieve MORE traction with wider tires, the BRP -VSS system will just trigger sooner when your " G " forces exceed it's parameters ..... hope I didn't overwhelm you ..... good luck .... Mike .....PPS I had 185/55-15 ( Toyo) on my RT for awhile, alignment could adjusted to suit .....:thumbup:

 

[deadboltdon]

Thanks BlueKnight,
Had to do a conversion from F to C. I don't ride much in cold weather but it does happen early or late season. (I have brushed some snow off the seat before riding to work in the fall)
Fair enough.
I would have thought that the summer tire would have some WET characteristics as it tends to rain in "summer". I will consider a all season based on this theory. I do get stuck in the rain and not afraid to take this machine or in the rain just because I can...
I have read that the wider tire really won't help with more traction in wet. My guess is this is because a wider tire has more surface to get on top of the water and hydroplane? I am thinking of the wider tire for the fronts, Mainly because I have ALOT more options in this size. Also the cost per tire is less than $100 a tire Can. $ - Stock "sizes" seem to start at $100 and go up real fast.
Also the look of the wider tire stuffed under the fenders complements the aggressive look in the front.

The shaking is in the Front. My mirrors and console are shaking at speeds over 80km/h or so. The bike had a alignment done in the fall 2 season ago and I noticed this early spring of last year. To me it almost feels like a "out of round" tire.
Nothing can be a crappy as the Kendas. So anything is a improvement. I tend to ride a little more spirited... often LOL The front is to soft for my liking and the Nanny and I don't get along most times.
But I find it kicks in WAY to easy on a 90 turn from a standstill (red light) kinda of situation. Only really had it argue a couple of times while traveling at higher speeds.
Will I absolutely NEED to get a alignment done after the wider tire swap? Or more of a wait and see thing? I will be honest. I put this off last year due to the alignment fee and the crappy service at the shop in town.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Along the same lines as those BK mentioned deadbolt, I choose to run 'All Season Sport/Touring Tires' here in Oz, altho we do get a lot of hot dry weather here that you'd think might be ideally suited to running 'Summer' tires!! The thing about it is that specialist 'Summer' tires and even more so, High Performance/Sports tires, tend to sacrifice better/longer tread wear characteristics for closer to the ultimate in traction & handling capabilities - and while I have tried both Summer & Hi-Perf tires on the road and the test track, when it comes to tread wear, they simply don't last as well AND the handling & traction gains they achieve over the 'All Season Sport/Touring Tires' that I do run is simply not so great as to warrant replacing them (rear especially!) almost twice as often - or, if you are still running on the OE Spec Kendas, 3 or more times as often!! :gaah:

You are right about slightly narrower tires generally being better in the wet, but the flip side of that is usually they'll wear a little quicker than the standard sized tires, just so long as the tire isn't getting close to being too wide for the rim, or if you have some (other?) alignment or suspension issues! Up until recently, that's at least partially why I've gone for the marginally wider & taller tires that are available here, simply because we have a lot of looong & very hot roads around here, and a weekend trip usually means over 1000 miles, a couple/few weeks of touring means 10,000 or so - and the slightly wider tires wear better for that sorta stuff; plus, I really don't want to hafta fit new tires a couple of times a year &/or fit a new tire or three half way thru a trip!! :shocked: That said, for the size & load our Spyders place upon them, the OE Spec sized tires are pretty wide to start with, so they are already juuust a little marginal in the 'Wet Road' traction & handling stakes anyway.... so any tire that's not already pretty well up there in the Wet Handling/Braking stakes only increases their 'already close to compromised' wet road handling/braking capabilities.... which I believe many feel is not such a great thing!! :lecturef_smilie: BTW, you really should get a 'proper' wheel alignment done fairly soon after fitting any wider new tires, unless you want to scrub them out rapidly?!? :sour:

So here in Oz, while we can't readily get many of the 'currently popular & recommended' tires you can get over there in North America, which means that the specific tire choice that I run might not be applicable to you, I've found that at least for me, the best balance of Tire Performance in both the Dry or the Wet that will still return a reasonable Tire Tread Life comes from 'All Season Sport/Touring Tires'! Their longer tread life & their 'generally better' handling/braking characteristics in the wet are valued features not shared with most Summer & Hi-Perf tires. Besides, there are very few Spyders running either Summer or Hi-Perf Tires that can leave me in their wake during 'on-road use', wet or dry - and there's really only fractions of a second in it on the test track too! hyea: :thumbup:

But maybe if you are prepared to slow down somewhat more than most &/or pull over rather than risk any poor wet handling issues if you're ever out ryding & it starts raining; or if the bees whisker of a second advantage that Summer or Hi-Perf tires might give you over the All Season alternatives in the Stop Light Grand Prix (or on a track somewhere ) then you probably should consider those types of tires.... just be prepared to replace them more often!! There are some very good specialist Summer & Hi-Perf tires available these days; some even available in sizes that are close enough to let them work well on our Spyders; a few of which might even last for maybe 10,000 miles if you only use them fairly gently on road.... but if that's the case, then I gotta ask why the heck are you running them?? :dontknow:

Still, it is your choice.... and what suits you might not suit me (or BlueKnight for that matter. ) But maybe we've helped some.... :thumbup:




Ps: I really don't know of anyone who rates Vee-Rubber 'm/c tires' any better than most rate the OE Spec Kendas, ie. lower'n a snake's belly on a dusty road! :shocked:

 

[deadboltdon]

Awesome advice guys thank!
I am looking at some specs on the tires listed on the site I posted in original post.
Most of those brands are not known to me either so I would have to rely on multiple reviews and figure in car/vs/bike scenario.

Mazzini Tires MZ1856014E3 | MAZZINI ECO307 Tires
https://tirereviews.co/mazzini-eco307-11553/

For the money these at least have a few reviews listed on other sites and almost everyone would list them in the dry 4.5 range and Wet actually a little better, 4.8 (Out Of 5). At almost half the price of the bridgestone Potenza's in stock sizes I was looking at in town. Also these have a non directional tread so I could rotate them?
Save a little to give BRP to do the alignment.... YAY!!!
The Front wheels can be balanced on MOST auto machines, correct? I know the rear cannot (that was a LONG day).

One last time on the rear as I have spend most of the time on the fronts.
the 205/60/15 I know is about .9 inch less in width. But in real world "looks" Without my rear fender on the bike will this look out of place? Everyone always compliments my fat tire. And traction wise on a already light back end will I really notice much difference? :dontknow:
And again the 205 option gives me more options than the - Vee rubber (talked me out of! Thank you.) Kendas roflmao or the Toyo Proxxes4 (I have on now not liking it for the money I paid) I can get the Falken Ziex ZE950 A/S Tire for almost half the cost of the previously mentioned brands. Among others in this price range.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Is there ANYONE besides the BRP dealer around who can do an alignment for you?? Many dealers & the BRP 'method' itself are notoriously poor at getting the wheel alignment sorted properly. :banghead: If there's no-one else around besides the dealer, then unless they have a FREAKIN' FANTASTIC reputation for doing the right thing AND for doing alignments well, I'd be investing in a couple of laser levels & making up a kit to do it myself!! :shocked: You'll almost certainly be better off!! :lecturef_smilie:

As for the 205 width, many have changed to 215's or 205's in 55, 60, or 65 profile sizes, and I don't know of anyone who's been disappointed. Basically, just about ANY quality/good name brand auto tire that's an acceptable/similar size with load & speed ratings that meet or exceed the OE Spec ratings is pretty likely to work pretty well & better than the Kendas in most if not all aspects of tire performance, ride, traction, handling, etc, IF you run the replacement tire at an appropriate pressure for the load the Spyder is placing upon it!! For most of us running auto tires, that's going to be somewhere between saaay 16-20psi, but your particular needs may vary from those, altho due to the stronger construction & load capabilities of auto tires, usually not too much! :dontknow:

However, I would suggest that you stick to those brands & sizes that we KNOW will fit, because the 'nominal size' shown on the sidewall is just that, 'Nominal' & chosen by the manufacturer, and therefore may not reflect the tire's true size!! And the Nanny is likely to get more easily upset if you vary the rolling dia too much on just one end, so any increase in rolling dia you make on the rear, saaay due to fitting a 205/65R15, should be matched by a similar size increase up front! Falken, Hankook, Federal, Vredestein, Bridgestone, Cooper & more all make tires in sizes that we KNOW fit and work very well... :thumbup:

 

[yellow peril]

contact [email protected] (e-mail) I made my own kit from what was posted on the internet. Worked very well.