alignment specifications

[cptjam]

Why should I think that your "laser" method is any better than say the factory recommended method? How do I know that your attachment method puts the light beam perfectly parallel to the plane of the wheel? Sounds like a great sales gimmic

Because the factory engineering staff published a bulletin for all dealers stating that the Rolo laser alignment system is the best way to align Spyders. Because the inventor, Mike Loescher, has a patent on the device. Because thousands of people have had it done and are totally satisfied. Because the lasers connect to the center of the wheel. Because it is based in math. Why not read up on it? See Spydercomfort.com. Click on NY dealers. Find one near you. Most check it for free. We do. If it is within spec, it is free. If not, it is plain to the naked eye how far off it is. Get it aligned. Go ride it. Feel the difference! Three of the most knowledgeable men I know (Lamont, Spyderpops, Len) all have and use this system. In fact, I asked them if I should get one. All agreed: it is the best way to align a Spyder. Less than 1% are within spec, from the factory, in my experience.

 

[Gray Ghost]

Why should I think that your "laser" method is any better than say the factory recommended method? How do I know that your attachment method puts the light beam perfectly parallel to the plane of the wheel? Sounds like a great sales gimmic

Cptjam gave you good reasons. You could also do a search of the forums (if you have a week or two to spare) for laser alignments and see just how many ryders on here brag on what a difference the laser alignment made to their ride.

If you do that you will also see some posts with pictures of tires worn badly on one side or the other because of poor alignment from the factory.

If you attend an event where one of the vendors is aligning bikes, go watch. You can see, in person, that the laser is aligned perfectly with the wheel. The developer of this system adapted it from his NASCAR alignment system.

 

[qasamm]

Why should I think that your "laser" method is any better than say the factory recommended method? How do I know that your attachment method puts the light beam perfectly parallel to the plane of the wheel? Sounds like a great sales gimmic

The factory has recommended the laser alignment for 3 years running now. The factory does not recommend any other method. Search Rolo alignment for details on how it works before declaring it a gimmick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[saber504]

Because the factory engineering staff published a bulletin for all dealers stating that the Rolo laser alignment system is the best way to align Spyders. Because the inventor, Mike Loescher, has a patent on the device. Because thousands of people have had it done and are totally satisfied. Because the lasers connect to the center of the wheel. Because it is based in math. Why not read up on it? See Spydercomfort.com. Click on NY dealers. Find one near you. Most check it for free. We do. If it is within spec, it is free. If not, it is plain to the naked eye how far off it is. Get it aligned. Go ride it. Feel the difference! Three of the most knowledgeable men I know (Lamont, Spyderpops, Len) all have and use this system. In fact, I asked them if I should get one. All agreed: it is the best way to align a Spyder. Less than 1% are within spec, from the factory, in my experience.

Had not read that BRP engineering published that statement. That makes all the difference to me. BRP must love you for saying 99% of Spyders are out of spec from the factory.

Turns out my local dealer has a laser unit.

 

[ARtraveler]

Why should I think that your "laser" method is any better than say the factory recommended method? How do I know that your attachment method puts the light beam perfectly parallel to the plane of the wheel? Sounds like a great sales gimmic

The original "factory" alignment required the use of a 2 x 4 and a ruler. And--that to fix a highly technical :ani29: :yikes:

 

[IGETAROUND]

Had not read that BRP engineering published that statement. That makes all the difference to me. BRP must love you for saying 99% of Spyders are out of spec from the factory.

Turns out my local dealer has a laser unit.

Ah but the question is how many have they done!!!!!

Any mechanical procedure is refined and the error rate is reduced the more that you perform it. I want my alignment performed by a skilled and trained individual who does them on a regular basis.

 

[007james]

Toe in by eye?

If the Spyder handles well, and tracks straight, yet one tire only, wears on the inside, then that appears to be Toe Out on that one wheel. Question: Any one ever try loosening the 2 nuts on the adjusting rod, and just guessing with a few turns of the rod, retightening, and watching if the tire Keeps wearing on the inside.? I now have 19,000 miles on my front Kendas, with only one wearing on the inside. I think I can get another 3-4,000 miles on it. With out doing nothing.
To me, the Lazar cost is not worth it, considering I can buy 2 tires for the cost of the alignment by the only Dealer in my area who has a captive audience. As for my Khumo rear tire, I will be replacing it next week. It has over 14,000 miles on it, and will have more by then. I am very pleased with the Khumo, and will be replacing with the same. I have a pair of Bridgstones for the fronts.

Had not read that BRP engineering published that statement. That makes all the difference to me. BRP must love you for saying 99% of Spyders are out of spec from the factory

Turns out my local dealer has a laser unit.

Ah but the question is how many have they done!!!!!

Any mechanical procedure is refined and the error rate is reduced the more that you perform it. I want my alignment performed by a skilled and trained individual who does them on a regular basis.

 

[SteveLaoyster]

TWO BY FOUR??!!!

The original "factory" alignment required the use of a 2 x 4 and a ruler. And--that to fix a highly technical :ani29: :yikes:

I guess your alignment this way will only be as good as the board is straight. I can think of better straight edges then a 2x4. Even a string tied between 2 points will be straighter!

 

[saber504]

Because the factory engineering staff published a bulletin for all dealers stating that the Rolo laser alignment system is the best way to align Spyders. Because the inventor, Mike Loescher, has a patent on the device. Because thousands of people have had it done and are totally satisfied. Because the lasers connect to the center of the wheel. Because it is based in math. Why not read up on it? See Spydercomfort.com. Click on NY dealers. Find one near you. Most check it for free. We do. If it is within spec, it is free. If not, it is plain to the naked eye how far off it is. Get it aligned. Go ride it. Feel the difference! Three of the most knowledgeable men I know (Lamont, Spyderpops, Len) all have and use this system. In fact, I asked them if I should get one. All agreed: it is the best way to align a Spyder. Less than 1% are within spec, from the factory, in my experience.

You must be a salesman as none off those reasons mean anything other than thousands of people have done it and are satisfied. I heard that BRP now uses this method to align Spyders during assembly.

 

[DrewNJ]

I have no clue what the official alignment specs are, but there are quite few of us that have done our own shade tree alignment with 2 lengths of angle iron attached to the wheels and 2 tape measures.
We shoot for 1/16" toe in with the weight of the rider on the Spyder. Personally, I've gone closer to 1/8" because I like the feel a bit better.
However, all of these machines had NO issues before the alignment with tire wear or pull. All of the ones I've seen have all had considerable le toe OUT.
Has worked great for us. I did have the dealer reset the sensors later on....nothing changed.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[SpyderAnn01]

You must be a salesman as none off those reasons mean anything other than thousands of people have done it and are satisfied. I heard that BRP now uses this method to align Spyders during assembly.

No they don't use this method during assembly that is why they are all still out of spec. BRP told their dealers that this was the proper method to use. I'm not understanding why you have such a problem with it? Statistics don't lie.

 

[jcthorne]

You must be a salesman as none off those reasons mean anything other than thousands of people have done it and are satisfied. I heard that BRP now uses this method to align Spyders during assembly.

You heard wrong. Have done 2 2016s recently and they were both way off from the factory.

 

[saber504]

Had not read that BRP engineering published that statement. That makes all the difference to me. BRP must love you for saying 99% of Spyders are out of spec from the factory.

Turns out my local dealer has a laser unit.

Ah but the question is how many have they done!!!!!

Any mechanical procedure is refined and the error rate is reduced the more that you perform it. I want my alignment performed by a skilled and trained individual who does them on a regular basis.

Yes that's what you should do when you lack the mechanical skill set to understand alignment.

 

[saber504]

No they don't use this method during assembly that is why they are all still out of spec. BRP told their dealers that this was the proper method to use. I'm not understanding why you have such a problem with it? Statistics don't lie.

I got that information from a BRP representative. They started in 2014. I doubt they use the exact equipment you have as it would be too slow for a assembly line. all technology can be modified and improved on.

Never trust a sales person on technical issues. Their motives are tainted by money and generally are technically ignorant. Just use them for clues to the true answer.

I have never seen a forum being used so obviously to generate sales.

 

[jcthorne]

I got that information from a BRP representative. They started in 2014. I doubt they use the exact equipment you have as it would be too slow for a assembly line. all technology can be modified and improved on.

Never trust a sales person on technical issues. Their motives are tainted by money and generally are technically ignorant. Just use them for clues to the true answer.

I have never seen a forum being used so obviously to generate sales.

I have never seen one new user join the group and so steadfastly refuse to acknowledge real world evidence rather than trust what some BRP talking head told them in a passing conversation.

The facts are simple. They do not come from the factory properly aligned. It does not matter the method they supposedly use, what ever it is, it does not work and they arrive at dealerships incorrectly set. Most dealers do not have the tools or the training to fix the problem. As a result of all this, the aftermarket came up with a very real and working system to fix the problem. Its been proven several hundred times over. To the point that BRP themselves now recommend the aftermarket solution to their own dealers. There are other ways to do the alignment other than the TruLaser tools. Its just that this particular set of tools is specifically and precision machined to work on the Spyders and Slingshots and it works well, is very repeatable and accurate in the right hands. It may not be the 'only' way. But it is a way that is proven and repeatable and recommended by the OEM.

Strangely enough (or perhaps not so strange) the same sequence of events has transpired on the Slingshot side.....with the exact same solution and results. (the TruLaser adaptors are slightly different and the Slingshots have camber to deal with so a bit more complex but still works the same.)

If you do not want your bike aligned, fine, no one is holding a gun to your head. Most of the alignment dealers that know what they are doing will all offer to check the alignment for free and no charge if its correct. They do this because its exceedingly rare for one to be correct from the factory. Far less than 1%. The pricing changed for the service is very much in line with the labor involved and the investment in tools needed. No one is getting rich off laser alignments.

 

[SpyderAnn01]

I got that information from a BRP representative. They started in 2014. I doubt they use the exact equipment you have as it would be too slow for a assembly line. all technology can be modified and improved on.

Never trust a sales person on technical issues. Their motives are tainted by money and generally are technically ignorant. Just use them for clues to the true answer.

I have never seen a forum being used so obviously to generate sales.

In 2013 Mike Loescher pitched his True Laser Track system to BRP and in January of 2014 BRP made the recommendation to their dealers that this was the technique to use, it is not in use by the factory. You must have misunderstood what the rep was telling you. If your Spyder was aligned at the factory with the equipment as you state then why do you even ask about alignment at all? My guess is that your Spyder is ill handling but you are just too cheap to take it to be laser aligned by one of us with the True Laser system.

Yes, I am in the business of selling alignments but I will check your Spyder and if it is in spec you would not be charged.

 

[Michaelscs]

Ann, do you have plans to come to Minnesota?

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Ann, do you have plans to come to Minnesota?

We are heading to Michigan in June and we are trying to figure out a way to stop in Bemidji to see Seth O's new baby so we could possibly stop in your area.

 

[saber504]

I did my own, not a big deal in my opinion since it is a basic toe adjustment. Yes there are other considerations such as the centering the steering and electronics. We had no obvious pull, or centering concerns, simply the machine was crap apexing corners. The front end is similar to a race kart and it felt like an ill handling kart.

I did not use angle iron, but had the inexpensive tools already for doing my own alignments on other vehicles. Sat my friend on the bike that weighs the right amount, about my weight in gear. And set it up, works fine. Used specs that Drew mentioned.

I was thinking along the same lines. Seems that in your setup, it is critical that the jig's tape measure points plane be perfectly parallel to the plane of the wheel contact points.

I use something similar for cars. As long as the spyder is not pulling, do you adjust the tie rods on both sides an equal amount so as to not change the handle bar position? is 1/8 inch adjust significant to the nanny in your experience.

 

[saber504]

In 2013 Mike Loescher pitched his True Laser Track system to BRP and in January of 2014 BRP made the recommendation to their dealers that this was the technique to use, it is not in use by the factory. You must have misunderstood what the rep was telling you. If your Spyder was aligned at the factory with the equipment as you state then why do you even ask about alignment at all? My guess is that your Spyder is ill handling but you are just too cheap to take it to be laser aligned by one of us with the True Laser system.

Yes, I am in the business of selling alignments but I will check your Spyder and if it is in spec you would not be charged.

That system is not suitable for an assembly line. Principles probably are, which is what I suggested they are doing.

Actually we are pretty happy with our spyder right out of the box (its really my wife's ride). However I rarely find a mechanical device that I can not visualize an improvement to. Forums provide a quick way to educate one self on the issues and the possible resolutions. Using a hands on approach just furthers one's understanding so when a real problem hits you can resolve it quicker. Paying people to solve your problems teaches you little. All the press in the forums certainly lead me the follow the alignment threads. Sure sounds like the early machines had their issues.

When one of the bays clears out in my shop, I'll design and fab up a jig to check alignment. Right now no unusual tire wear and tracks straight on a level surface, but still worth a closer look.