Agree or Disagree

[NancysToy]

I disagree.
Brakes can overcome any car engine at full throttle.

I am curious as to how Toyota's fixing gas pedals is going to resolve the claim people make that they have no brakes when their car is "running away" on them.

With the Toyotas, at least, it was proven in tests that the brakes could only temporariliy overcome the throttle, and soon heated up and failed. Even disc brakes all around can only take so much.

 

[jgwoods]

The current Car and Driver disagrees with you in some ways- it says you ought to step ont he the brakes once time and hold them, and that the increased stopping distance between closed throttle and full throttle is only a few feet from 70 mph, and not quite 100 feet from 100mph.

The car will stop. It's all driver error and bad training.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

 

[NancysToy]

The current Car and Driver disagrees with you in some ways- it says you ought to step ont he the brakes once time and hold them, and that the increased stopping distance between closed throttle and full throttle is only a few feet from 70 mph, and not quite 100 feet from 100mph.

The car will stop. It's all driver error and bad training.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

Actually, it depended on the car, and they did recommend both feet on the brake pedal, which most drivers may not think to do. All cars slowed in their tests but one did not stop completely. Further application of that brake probably would have resulted in complete brake failure. For the high powered Roush car, which went three times the normal stopping distance, that situation could easily kill you. Stretching out 100 feet into a football field could put you into a wall. Bottom line, it should be instinctive in these situations to apply the brakes hard as a first reaction. It should at least help. As C&D said, shutting off the ignition on a modern car is a last resort, and not recommended...and they didn't even mention the steering lock issue.

 

[spyryder]

...and they didn't even mention the steering lock issue.

Steering normally won't lock unless the transmission is in park. Some cars don't even have a steering lock anymore as in my Chrysler 300.

 

[NancysToy]

Steering normally won't lock unless the transmission is in park. Some cars don't even have a steering lock anymore as in my Chrysler 300.

Well, that's a new wrinkle that I didn't know. The first steering locks would lock anywhere, and it could be mean if you turned off the key. Had a Dodge Colt that I tested that theory on.

 

[spyryder]

Well, that's a new wrinkle that I didn't know. The first steering locks would lock anywhere, and it could be mean if you turned off the key. Had a Dodge Colt that I tested that theory on.

All cars with a locking steering are supposed to have what's called a shift interlock. As long as the car isn't in park (or reverse in a manual trans), then you should only be able to turn the key off, but not to the lock position. I'm surprised you could do that with the Colt.:yikes:

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h18.pdf

 

[Firefly]

As for what to do if your SE5 soemhow gets stuck at full throttle when there is no way to put it in neutral; Using the kill switch and leaving the ignition in the on position should leave us with the engine off, but all other features working- anti lock brakes, DPS, etc. so it should be fairly easy to coast to a halt.

I do wonder if that is the case- that all the systems continue to work when activating the kill switch at speed.
I may have to try that...

Actually your DPS is killed when you hit the killswitch. Not sure about the ABS.

 

[Way2Fast]

All cars with a locking steering are supposed to have what's called a shift interlock. As long as the car isn't in park (or reverse in a manual trans), then you should only be able to turn the key off, but not to the lock position. I'm surprised you could do that with the Colt.:yikes:

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h18.pdf

Besides having the transmission (auto) in park, I believe the key has to be removed before the wheel will lock.

 

[Tom in NM]

don't take this the wrong way . . . . .

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

 

[spyryder]

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

Well it looks like people ARE finally getting an education due to this Toyota fiasco.

 

[aubierules]

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

:agree:

 

[Firefly]

. . . . . with all the postings on brakes and turning off the key and locking steering wheels - it just goes to show how many people "don't know" what will happen or what to do in a particular vehicle. And this from a bunch of people who have lots of experience. What chance does a "non-mechanical" person have?

At the very least it shows that there is not a Standard for Emergency Stopping across different manufacturers or even across model years.

Tom

I understand where you're coming from - but every car I've ever seen (stick or automatic) had neutral. I would bet that someone who was used to driving a stick would know enough to drop into neutral - even on an automatic.

 

[NancysToy]

I understand where you're coming from - but every car I've ever seen (stick or automatic) had neutral. I would bet that someone who was used to driving a stick would know enough to drop into neutral - even on an automatic.

For a great many people, this would be an exceedingly hard decision...or at least a slow one. In the heat of the moment, many wouldn't realize quickly enough that their lives are more important than a blown engine, so they might hesitate. Not putting a vehicle with an engine at full throttle in neutral is somewhat instinctive, and they would have to fight those first instincts. I have seen it on the race track, and real life drivers aren't as experienced, in general, as race drivers.

 

[spyryder]

I understand where you're coming from - but every car I've ever seen (stick or automatic) had neutral. I would bet that someone who was used to driving a stick would know enough to drop into neutral - even on an automatic.

Many modern cars also have rev limiters which won't allow the engine to exceed 3-4000 RPM's in park or neutral.

 

[Tom in NM]

Here is a video of what Toyota recommends.

http://www.toyota.com/recall/videos/stoppingprocedure.html

It seems pretty clear and concise - and answers a lot of the questions above. Though, that pressing the "button" for 3 seconds seemed like an eternity. :yikes:

Tom

 

[QuadManiac]

Not putting a vehicle with an engine at full throttle in neutral is somewhat instinctive, and they would have to fight those first instincts. I have seen it on the race track, and real life drivers aren't as experienced, in general, as race drivers.

race drivers AND, I would have expected, a long time California Highway Patrol officer - whose job was driving and, as I recall, is trained in the art of driving as part of the job.

It's beyond me how, with his experience, he couldn't have stopped that car ... but somehow, he was not able to. That is the issue in all this that worries me the most. I suggest we all plan ahead and practice for unexpected situations.

 

[Firefly]

I suggest we all plan ahead and practice for unexpected situations.

:agree:

Glad they have a video online for people----I like how she makes sure that people know that 'N' is for neutral. From the tone of the video - it seems they are aware that common sense is in short supply these days----

 

[NancysToy]

:agree:

Glad they have a video online for people----I like how she makes sure that people know that 'N' is for neutral. From the tone of the video - it seems they are aware that common sense is in short supply these days----

You hit the nail right on the head, my friend! :thumbup:

 

[boborgera]

:agree:

Glad they have a video online for people----I like how she makes sure that people know that 'N' is for neutral. From the tone of the video - it seems they are aware that common sense is in short supply these days----

Most people don't know what 1 and 2 are for let alone N.
I see most drivers going down hills in snow/ice riding their brakes instead
of dropping the trans. into 2 or 1 to slow down.

P/S = Auto trans / Power steering / Power brakes, should be outlawed.
That alone will get most idiots off the roads.

 

[Firefly]

Most people don't know what 1 and 2 are for let alone N.
I see most drivers going down hills in snow/ice riding their brakes instead
of dropping the trans. into 2 or 1 to slow down.

P/S = Auto trans / Power steering / Power brakes, should be outlawed.
That alone will get most idiots off the roads.

Good ideas.

Most shouldn't be driving at all IMO.

We got some decent snow and icy roads right now and it's a regular idiot festival outside. People gunning their gas trying to get their car to move on ice just drives me NUTS.