Agree or Disagree

[krb1945]

My old granddad...

use to say "the more gadgets they add to these machines the more they break and cost"... he was right on both points.

I agree with you... there are too many things on the spyder we don't need or want. I just get tired of big brother trying to control everything I do.

Like many on this site I've served my time in H :cus: . I don't need someone in guberment making life more miserable for me.


Also for some of the less experienced drivers watching all the recalls... remember you can turn the "key off" and that should kill the engine.

I'm just an ole fossil dinosaur that likes to have control of my machine.

I neglected to mention above... when you turn the key off you lose power steering and power brakes so you have to muscle them to a safe stop. /ken

 

[RShrimp]

Also for some of the less experienced drivers watching all the recalls... remember you can turn the "key off" and that should kill the engine.

. /ken

Can you say ..... push to start ................ DOEH! No Key!


But, I remember an experience I had when 16-17 yrs old in a 65 Buick Wildcat with a 430 with 2 4bbls (Lets just say it was a little quicker than a Toyota Corolla)

Started a burnout, broke left motor mount, throttle stuck, (Thought process) If I put it in Neutral the motor blows for sure, (Not in new cars as they all have rev limiters), reach up and turn off the key, a bit wide eyed but no worse for wear. All happened in less than 3 seconds with burn out less than 25 feet longer than expected.

My point,
1. it is not just the new stuff that can cause this type is issue.
2. Gas pedal sticking should not mean certain death, especialy in a 100HP toyota
Steering lockup... That could be different

 

[WackyDan]

I agree for the most part. The vehicles we are buying new today can go 50,000 miles or far more before their first tune up. Sure, I'm a bit perplexed at where GM hid the PCV valve on my Wife's 05 malibu and how the hell I can even get at the plugs, and the belt if needed... much less a mechanic. Our Malibu steering is fly by wire already. I do like working on my Dakota. That has an engine that was designed back in the 50's/60's and I enjoy tinkering with it when I have to...

One of my old mechanics in my home town said it best... They sure don't make them like they used to, and thank god they don't! That was going for a ride in my 1986 S-10 at about 200k miles and a bad bearing in the tranny making noise. My 1998 Dakota now has 111k and is in far better shape than even that S-10 was.

I guess it comes down to what you want to trade off. Serviceability versus reliability and efficiency.

In general I have to disagree. Cars are MUCH safer today than in the past - due to technology. I personally think the 'fly-by-wire' will become the industry standard within 20 years and should be less problematic in the long run.

The recent situation with the Toyota gas Peddles is a mechanical problem - not computer related.

I personally think too much is being made of such recalls. Back in the day things on cars broke all the time and the driver just dealt with it --- fixed it or had it fixed and moved on. Today everyone is sue-happy and expects every little thing on a car to operate PERFECTLY. Totally unrealistic thinking.

The 'stuck gas peddle' thing cracks me up --- sure-- get the things fixed--- but how stupid are these drivers that don't know if such a thing happens they can easily put the car in neutral? To me, if a driver is alert - a stuck gas peddle shouldn't be that big of a deal. Machines fail - be prepared on how to handle them when they do fail.

I remember seeing a cops episode a few years ago with some woman going down the highway with a stuck gas peddle. The cops kept trying to tell her to put it into neutral or turn the key off. She was too stupid to make the connection-- and instead crashed.

Similar to the BRP steering problem. If you suddenly have the DPS jerking or locking, this isn't much different than a tire blowing out. Be prepared to handle such problems.. and THINK.

Just my .03 !

 

[Racy2]

In general I have to disagree. Cars are MUCH safer today than in the past - due to technology. I personally think the 'fly-by-wire' will become the industry standard within 20 years and should be less problematic in the long run.

The recent situation with the Toyota gas Peddles is a mechanical problem - not computer related.

I personally think too much is being made of such recalls. Back in the day things on cars broke all the time and the driver just dealt with it --- fixed it or had it fixed and moved on. Today everyone is sue-happy and expects every little thing on a car to operate PERFECTLY. Totally unrealistic thinking.

The 'stuck gas peddle' thing cracks me up --- sure-- get the things fixed--- but how stupid are these drivers that don't know if such a thing happens they can easily put the car in neutral? To me, if a driver is alert - a stuck gas peddle shouldn't be that big of a deal. Machines fail - be prepared on how to handle them when they do fail.

I remember seeing a cops episode a few years ago with some woman going down the highway with a stuck gas peddle. The cops kept trying to tell her to put it into neutral or turn the key off. She was too stupid to make the connection-- and instead crashed.

Similar to the BRP steering problem. If you suddenly have the DPS jerking or locking, this isn't much different than a tire blowing out. Be prepared to handle such problems.. and THINK.

Just my .03 !

Very well said. A lot of the stuff we put on cars does make drivers even stupider becasue they have to do less thinking. ABS,Traction control etc etc:2thumbs:

 

[NancysToy]

Very well said. A lot of the stuff we put on cars does make drivers even stupider becasue they have to do less thinking. ABS,Traction control etc etc:2thumbs:

I certainly agree with that. On the other hand, there is a lot of stupid out there anyway, and that stuff probably saves us from it. My vote is to outlaw cruise control. It has led to an epidemic of tailgating and distracted driving on the highway. This isn't the Daytona 500! Oh yeah, and let's ditch power steering, so the idiots can't use their cell phones and park their cars at the same time. :joke: (sort of)

 

[SpyderGirl]

Based on what I have been hearing with Toyota and what is happening to my mother-in-law's Prius I most certainly think that Toyota's problem is beyond mechanical. My mother-in-law told me the other day that on numerous occassions she'd be sitting in her car in PARK and the car would rev and lurch for no reason at all. Also heard about another car witht he cruise control on that just kept on accelerating. Sounds like software to me!!

 

[SpyderGirl]

I certainly agree with that. On the other hand, there is a lot of stupid out there anyway, and that stuff probably saves us from it. My vote is to outlaw cruise control. It has led to an epidemic of tailgating and distracted driving on the highway. This isn't the Daytona 500! Oh yeah, and let's ditch power steering, so the idiots can't use their cell phones and park their cars at the same time. :joke: (sort of)

Very well said. A lot of the stuff we put on cars does make drivers even stupider becasue they have to do less thinking. ABS,Traction control etc etc:2thumbs:

This is all right up there with the cars that park themselves, cars with blind spot indicators, etc, etc. I was driving the other day and some girl in a Jetta was speeding while curling her eyelashes in a residential area! Don't you need your eyes to see while you drive?!?! :yikes:

 

[Lamonster]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkEu-PdVlK0[/ame]

 

[SpyderGirl]

That was a pretty cool vid on the parking assist feature, but I'm sorry, I trust my own eyes before I trust a computer. Besides, if you manage to hit someone while doing this you could just sue the manufacturer and leave the insurance company out of it. Seems like an accident waiting to happen if you ask me. I don't trust those back-up cameras either.

How about those cars that will apply the brakes if it senses you are too close to the car in front of you. What if it just did that randomly and someone slammed into the back of you on the freeway? Or you just assumed you didn't have to pay attention to driving like it seems too many people do nowadays.

I'm sorry, but your car is not your living room, bathroom, office, etc. It's a deadly weapon. if you can't give it your full and undivided attention then don't get behind the wheel.

 

[Smylinacha]

I'll take the EFI but that's it. Everything else NO COMPUTERS!:2thumbs:

Can't tell you how many times my system crashes at work and home and I don't exactly go anywhere online.

 

[spyryder]

I'll take the EFI but that's it. Everything else NO COMPUTERS!:2thumbs:

Can't tell you how many times my system crashes at work and home and I don't exactly go anywhere online.

Your Charger is FULL of electronics.

 

[woodz428]

:agree:Fuel Injection one of the best things that ever came around on bikes :doorag:
And could deff deal with out all the other stuff :ani29:

I don't want any of that crap. The best fuel injection I ever worked on was the Bosch CIS..NO electronics to speak of and extremely smooth and tuneable. Have 3 systems on the shelf, worked great on millions of vehicles from Germany,Sweden,Italy,France and probably even the Brits.,although they were about extinct by then.
No matter how much computer crap is on a vehicle it can never compensate for the nut behind the wheel. Especially if that vehicle just ran a red light. It was illustrated in the last couple years in, C&D or R&T, that good driving, standard no inertia shoulder belts are far superior in every condition than ABS,BS or ASS. For those that feel safer with it, good for you, but I DO NOT WANT it forced down my throat. One reason I don't buy any new crap. When I have the option to DELETE anything I don't want, I'll consider it. I personally believe that all this reliance on technology is a breeding ground for more and more stupid/unsafe drivers. It also gives them an excuse, my ABS didn't work right, my gas pedal got stuck, falls right into the victim mentality. Not my fault, it was the CAR/TRUCK/ whatever. The new version of "I didn't see them".

 

[jwfranklin]

Your Charger is FULL of electronics.

All our cars and trucks are full of electronics. And it scares me that even the factory trained techs and factory engineers can't fix them. In 2001 I bought a new Mustang Convertible, which I only drove on pretty days. At about 6 months of ownership and less than 1K miles a check engine light came on, took it in to the dealer, was told they could find nothing wrong and the reset the light, about 3 miles later it came back on again. this happened about 3 more times, when they finally decided to keep it a day, got it back drove about 3 miles and it came on again. then they kept it almost a week same results. Then they gave me a loaner and kept it over a month, supposed to have checked everything. thought they found a problem in the FI. left and you guessed it drove about 3 miles and the light came on again. They had an engineer from Ford come out, and they kept it about another week. They still couldn't find anything wrong, and took a hail mary approach and replaced all the computers and almost everything else. Then the light stayed off. On my paperwork which was 9 pages, it said that neither the tech or engineer could explain what particulary fixed the light. My thought was what if the car was out out of warranty. I was told they bill was over $9K to fix it. I sold it before it ran out of warranty, and never had any other problems.

 

[Firefly]

I never thought of the possibility of the gas pedal getting stuck...and frankly I wouldn't have known to put the car in neutral...after messing around a bit with the gears or if I was clear headed enough, sure I might have gotten there, but maybe by then it would be too late. So, I do NOT find it funny at all that the pedals stuck and people got hurt, and just because some people know a lot about cars and what to do "if" doesn't mean that the general population does, nor does it mean that those that don't know are "stupid." People died, and they were NOT stupid, if anything they believed they were in a safe vehicle and weren't prepared for the "what if's."

I guess I should clarify what I meant. I certainly did NOT mean it was 'ha ha funny' pertaining to the gas pedals sticking --- I meant 'funny' as in 'odd' or 'strange'. I certainly don't mean any disrespect to those that died, but I must also wonder how someone could allow their car to get up to 125 mph without killing the engine or dropping into neutral.

Toyota claims it was mechanical - and I could easily see the wrong floor mat curling up and causing problems. Considering they have had around 400 reports of 'sticking pedals' out of 9 million or so cars they have recalled, I would still consider them to be very safe cars.

I currently have a gas pedal on one of my cars that sticks a bit here and there---- and WD-40 every 6 months or so seems to take care of it.

Comparing vehicle computer systems to desktop computers is really comparing apples to oranges. Technology isn't evil, but it also shouldn't be a replacement for good old common sense.

 

[bjt]

Well, almost all the problems with my Spyder have been mechanical issues but i still wouldn't mind them simplifying the computer / electronic systems on the Spyder. Some of those systems are good but some of them seem to cause more problems that are hard to diagnose. Getting rid of the power assist steering would not be a big deal IMO and that would really simplify their diagnosing the steering issues.

 

[SpyderGirl]

I personally believe that all this reliance on technology is a breeding ground for more and more stupid/unsafe drivers. It also gives them an excuse, my ABS didn't work right, my gas pedal got stuck, falls right into the victim mentality. Not my fault, it was the CAR/TRUCK/ whatever. The new version of "I didn't see them".

HERE HERE!!! My thought EXACTLY.

 

[bikeguy]

I'm not really a gearhead, I just never could afford having someone else be my mechanic. Electronic Ignition and Electronic Fuel Injection is the best thing that has happened to engines since paper air filters were developed IMO. With the possible exception of the Spyder's VSS, I could personally do without all the rest of the electronic stuff. And I say POSSIBLE exception of the VSS because I haven't yet owned or ridden a Spyder enough to form an opinion. Like most of us who have ridden bikes and driven cars/pickups/whatever for many, many years, I have had any number of incidents happen that could have resulted in bad accidents or death.

If you've been around awhile, you remember that blowouts used to be fairly common. Thank goodness, they aren't any more. Stuck throttles weren't unusual, either. I don't think I know a long time rider who can't tell you at least one story about a stuck throttle. I owned a pretty fast 1959 Chevrolet when I was younger. I threw the tread rubber off so many tires that it was little more than an annoyance. I guess we were fortunate that we learned to deal with unexpected occurences when speeds were maybe a little slower than they are now and traffic was a whole lot lighter.

I like ABS brakes but I can do without them. Never had any form of traction control but I think I can do without that, also. But I want to keep Electronic Ignition and EFI.

Cotton

 

[Lamonster]

Well, almost all the problems with my Spyder have been mechanical issues but i still wouldn't mind them simplifying the computer / electronic systems on the Spyder. Some of those systems are good but some of them seem to cause more problems that are hard to diagnose. Getting rid of the power assist steering would not be a big deal IMO and that would really simplify their diagnosing the steering issues.

:shemademe_smilie::roflblack:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmUr0nZzIxE[/ame]

 

[Neez]

Good hammer work can also resolve electronic issues. Seems to me I recall a GPS adjustment video a while back........

 

[Mo Lee]

Perhaps I should clear up my thoughts. I agree with Lamont and several others, EFI, electronic ignition, and possibly ABS are keepers. That is why I said roll back 20 or so years, in 1985 I bought a new Dodge Shelby Charger that was fuel injected and turbocharged and it was as much fun as the Spyder. The main reason for purchase was I was being transfered to Germany and I wanted to keep up, on the Autobahn.
My concern is with electronic systems that need variable current flow and not simply on and off conditions, too many things can effect that flow. I also disagree with stability systems that take over drivers controls, even though there may be a half a dozen sensors providing data to the CPU it still does not have enough info, at least not what the driver/rider is seeing and feeling.
I find it interesting that I made the same post on a Valkyrie forum where the Bike of choice is much simpler without all the electronics and don't even have EFI, and most of them disagree with me however on this site where the bike of choice is full of electronics it seems the trend is toward agreement.