Advice for a daddy and his girl.

[BSage]

Hello everybody. I am interested in advice. This is my first post here but I am not new to forums. Feel free to speak candidly in responses. I am a huge fan of thoughtful sarcasm, so don't worry about that. If a reply is simply rude I will most likely just block that poster.

My daughter Chloe is 15 and is significantly affected by Autism with an additional MR (mildly retarded) diagnosis. If you know anything or have viewed any media about Autism. She checks all the boxes. Very stereotypical non-verbal, hand flapping, limited cognition ect . . .


Chloe has only a few activities she truly enjoys. She draws a lot, swimming, kind of a foodie and going for rides. On school days we will take two to three rides a day. On weekends we go for as many as 5 or 6 in a given day.


Initially, we would take rides on an ATV that was gifted to me for that reason. She would ride in front of me so I could place my arms around her. Each ride would light up her face, absolutely having the time of her life. As she got to big I was able to find a used UTV (side by side). I gave the gifted ATV to another father in similar circumstances. Again with our Can Am Commander her face told the story ear to ear grins and Chloe's first few strung together words appeared "Go Fast!". The UTV has fallen out of favour for several reasons, Hot in the summer, get muddy clean it off after each ride got old. Also if you "Go Fast!" off road repairs are common and expensive.


I have enjoyed motorcycle riding and have much of my life. Because of Chloe's limitations, I do not feel it would be safe for several reasons. I am confident I could not rely on her to keep a vigorous hold on the handholds or my back. It is also not likely she would lean properly into corners.


I am kind of confident a Spyder may be a life changer for us. I think "armrests" may overcome her lack of vigorous holding the hand holds. And it is my understanding a passenger lean will not adversely affect riding the way it would on a two-wheeled bike.


My question is two-fold. First, are there any FLAWS in my logic or assumptions about the Spyder. Second, if there are any STRATEGIES to getting into this at the lowest cost possible it would be very much appreciated. I can't forsake my "needs" because the cost of my "Wants" And for the last 13 years I have lived a debt free life which I have no desire to get back into debt ever again.


Thank you in advance for any advice or strategies.
Sincerely
Chloe's daddy
Bryan

 

[BSage]

This is Chloe

 

[Easy Rider]

I can't forsake my "needs" because the cost of my "Wants" And for the last 13 years I have lived a debt free life which I have no desire to get back into debt ever again.

Two comments:
You are to be commended......for several things.....including a sane and logical approach to finances BUT taking on a small amount of short term debt for a specific purpose is NOT NECESSARILY A BAD THING. I've been debt free for about 35 years.......except for small "gap" house loans and some short term car loans (3 years or less) along the way.

Your other concerns can mostly be addressed, I think, by a more sedate riding habit......with the arm rests that you mentioned.
You need to do some test rides on Spyders.......and play like you have a dozen eggs sitting on the back seat with no attachment.
It is possible to ride an RT with virtually no body roll......if you concentrate on that.

I suggest a newer model with the 1330 engine and an automatic transmission.

Others will chime in, no doubt.

Edit: After seeing the video, I gotta say: A Spyder will NOT replace the experience with the ATV. It might expand your horizons out onto the actual roads but you shouldn't take the Spyder off-road. In that situation, it well could throw somebody off. And since she tolerates a seat belt good, you might could get one installed on the Spyder too.

(My in-laws are visiting this week from Cresco.)

 

[Marvin2488485]

You might look at a Polaris SlingShot,

 

[garageguy]

Bryan, this is a great idea for your daughter. would definitely recommend an RT with passenger armrests If you plan to ride a lot get the 1330 engine,or else get a good deal on an older model.

Judging by your video she was holding on pretty darn well to that Commander, so ease her into the spyder. It's not that much different when it comes to cornering forces hyea:

Good Luck!

 

[BSage]

Judging by your video she was holding on pretty darn well to that Commander,

I had to constantly remind her to hold on. And on a two-up bike I would not be able to see her to know she was holding on. I am pretty confident she would enjoy the spyder possibly more than the commander. Unless I hauled it (which did a few times) you are basically riding the same trail over and over.

 

[BSage]

You might look at a Polaris SlingShot,

I considered that. I am not seeing many really favorable reviews, and they have not been on the market long enough to find a great deal on a used one.

 

[Spider-man]

I agree that an RT with armrests would be just the ticket for you. When we had ours, my wife always said she felt she could fall asleep in the rear seat and not worry about falling off. You could attach a mirror to make sure she was back there, but I think you would notice if she started moving. Unless you had an accident I really doubt you would have an issue with her falling off.

 

[PrairieSpyder]

Though I've never been interested in them, I also think a Polaris Slingshot may be more useful for you. It has sides on it and seat belts. It's street legal and you'd sit side-by-side.

If you look for a Spyder, I'd also recommend an RT model, though, for your purposes, I think an older, gently used 990cc (pre-2014) would do and it may better fit your budget. The problem is that the seating is tandem with Chloe behind you. Though it doesn't lean, there are centrifugal forces on the riders in curves, so you'd have to take them gently. That may not help in the "go fast" scenario.

In either case (Slingshot or Spyder) Chloe should be wearing a helmet. Will she tolerate that?

Thanks for sharing your and Chloe's story with us. Let us know what you end up doing. I'd be interested to know.

 

[Little Blue]

Daddy's Girl

I Think For the Spyder experience, Try the Arm Rests and The Seat Belt options. :thumbup: PS: Good Luck on what ever You Decide.

 

[Pirate looks at --]

One thing to consider is wearing a helmet. It seems to me when I was ryding through Iowa, that your state doesn't have a mandatory helmet law, but, with your daughters tendencies to "not hold on" I would think you want her to have a helmet on. How do you think she would handle that? That can be something difficult for even non "challenged" people. With that in mind, an RT with passenger armrests would be something for Chloe. See if you can arrange a demo for the two of you, and put a helmet on her and see what happens. Then start looking on the for sale section here, and on EBay, and Craig's List, and everywhere else you can find where spyders are for sale. You will find some great deals on used machines that people with more money than sense bought and NEVER rode, low miles and still under warranty.

Good Luck to a very good Daddy!:thumbup:

 

[bushrat]

Another, slightly different, view...

Firstly, my comments echo all those by colleagues above commending you for your activities and care for your daughter in making her life more enjoyable, and for your care and concern for her safety. I, too, think a Spyder could safely be a consideration, properly used and equipped, on roads, not off. Many here have so far pointed to the RT; I'm going to suggest that the F3 is equally as good, and maybe even better when it comes to arm rests. The photo below shows my 2017 F3L with its stock passenger back rest/integrated top case with added optional stock BRP arm rests. These arm rests are longer/bigger than many others; they also open only slightly to the sides for entry and require use of a flip lever to do that - i.e., quite secure. The stock seating has been changed to an Ultimate, but the original seating, space-wise, is pretty much the same. What I am suggesting is: with the driver back rest in place, the passenger area is a pretty snug, self-contained 'nest'. It would be fairly difficult to dislodge or lose a passenger, particularly if you included use of a seat belt. A basic F3, without the topcase/backrest and arm rests would not be suitable, but equipped similarly to mine might even provide more of an 'envelope' than some of the RT's. It's going to mean some expense but, then, RT's are not cheap either, although many older and less expensive choices will likely be available. As with any other potential buyer, you really ought to visit a dealer and do some test rides before making up your mind. I'm sure you could find some local Spyder owners/dealers who could help you out in that regard. Best of luck. Be safe, and be happy, both of you.

 

[DGoebel]

Bryan, +1 on the kudo's to you and your family. And I'd also add a +1 on an RT with the new style BRP armrests (219400839) just released. Even without the new armrests, my wife HAS fallen asleep, comfortably stayed securely behind me on the back of our '13 RT on some warm fall day long rides. 3 years ago she wouldn't ride on the back of my other bikes....
My understanding it the new armrests fit any Spyder RT, so you could start with an older RT (less expensive) and add the extra protection. Also you could add the TricLED WideVue mirrors and easily see Chloe in the mirrors (though, I think you'd find that unnecessary after a short ride).
Where in Iowa? A buddy and I are planning a late spring Around Iowa SS1K Iron Butt ride, maybe we'll be passing close by.

 

[BSage]

Thanks for all the advice.

Helmets bring about another issue. You may notice in the video at times she has earmuffs on and other times she does not. Chloe is very sound sensitive. originally I wanted her to wear a helmet on the Commander. I have searched without success helmet's which dampened ambient noise. Many offer protection from wind noise, I was looking for ambient noise protection and could not find any. In the video when she is not wearing the headphones she had high dollar custom-made ear plugs which she promptly lost one (you can tell when she loses it in the video) she then covers her ears with her hands. Which means she can no longer use her hands to hold on.

I think (not sure) there may be some cap type helmets which would allow room for the muffs. I know its not the "Best" protection, but better than "No" protection. And of course, I will ride appropriately when I have Daddy's girl on board. I do expect the spyder to not be as loud as the commander.

PS you are correct there is no helmet law in Iowa. However, I live in Keokuk Iowa. Which is where IA IL and MO meet each being less than a 5-minute ride. MO does have a helmet law, I believe IL is just eyeglasses. On my bike I typically wear a helmet.

 

[ARtraveler]

Agree that you are to be commended for your concern about Chloe. Only you are going to know if it is right or not. I would recommend the addition of a helmet for both driver and passenger. I am one of those ATGATT persons.

Everything will be fine up until the point of an accident. If she gets hurt, then the 20/20 hindsight kicks in.

Being ultra conservative--I vote for a seat, seatbelt, and helmet. The Slingshot might be a better option.

Good luck with your very difficult decision. :thumbup:

 

[bcer960]

For the hearing protection, would she be able to wear custom earplugs? and then a helmet. And I would look at the new BRP arm rests for the RT, they lift up and down, rather than swinging side to side.

 

[UtahPete]

I agree that an RT with armrests would be just the ticket for you. When we had ours, my wife always said she felt she could fall asleep in the rear seat and not worry about falling off. You could attach a mirror to make sure she was back there, but I think you would notice if she started moving. Unless you had an accident I really doubt you would have an issue with her falling off.

:agree: And, for budget reasons, look for a 2011 or 2012 or earlier RT; it will come with the smaller 2-cylinder engine which should be plenty adequate for your purposes.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Bryan, +1 on the kudo's to you and your family. And I'd also add a +1 on an RT with the new style BRP armrests (219400839) just released. Even without the new armrests, my wife HAS fallen asleep, comfortably stayed securely behind me on the back of our '13 RT on some warm fall day long rides. 3 years ago she wouldn't ride on the back of my other bikes....
My understanding it the new armrests fit any Spyder RT, so you could start with an older RT (less expensive) and add the extra protection......

Ditto the above comments, and if you go down the RT (or F3) route (I'd suggest you will probably get the best deal on a 'post heat recall' 2013 RT - easily the best of the V-Twin RT's! hyea then it's only a matter of picking the right helmet & intercom system so you can sort the communication AND the 'noise sensitivity' issue as well!! :thumbup:

Talking about helmets & intercoms, the Missus & I wear Shoei GT-Air full face helmets (former paramedic, seen too much in the way of nasty facial damage with non-full face helmets to wear anything less!!) fitted with a UClear Intercom system that doesn't require a boom mic & allows a bluetooth link to my phone that enables it to transmit noise masking 'white noise' to the speakers while we aren't talking about something - bloody brilliant!! The helmets have removable &/or interchangable ear pads that allow me to wear my hearing aids (if desired, altho I usually leave them out forlong trips!) in comfort & still leave plenty of room for the UClear speaker-mic (which are 2" dia disc speaker units with an integrated mic) to fit in there & connect to the quite neat external receiver unit. The intercom connection is fantastic; even without my hearing aids we talk comfortably; the music/noise masking works well too; I can answer my phone & the person on the other end rarely realises I'm on the Spyder; and the system will alsoallow bluetooth connection to other units & devices to allow stuff like bike to bike or bike to car comms when travelling in company. I think this link might work for you:

https://www.ucleardigital.com/shop/helmet-audio/powersports/amp-go-bluetooth-helmet-audio-system/

Personally, I would strongly recommend that you DO NOT fit a seat belt to your Spyder... (again, former paramedic, seen too many really horrific injuries to ever suggest anyone do that! :yikes: ) But if you are still concerned despite knowing that passengers can & do go to sleep back there due to the comfort & security of the pillion seating on the RT (or F3!) with backrests & arm rests, there are velcro & strap on 'pillion security straps' available that allow your pillion passenger to be strapped to you.... I haven't gone searching for that one but I'm pretty sure there has been at least one such product discussed here on this Forum, & they shouldn't be too hard to find on the interwebs... I've seen quite a few here in Aust, they come in a range of sizes to suit adults, kids of various ages/sizes, and even pets! Quite secure once attached; altho the pillion is left sitting comfortably behind you they simply aren't going to fall off!!

 

[BSage]

Everything will be fine up until the point of an accident. If she gets hurt, then the 20/20 hindsight kicks in.

pretty sure I would not be able to live with myself if she got seriously injured. Chloe gives life meaning for me.

For the hearing protection, would she be able to wear custom earplugs? and then a helmet. And I would look at the new BRP armrests for the RT, they lift up and down, rather than swinging side to side.

Yeah, I mentioned the custom earplugs. They would really be ideal in a lot of situations including this. The muffs tend to draw attention and say "I have a disability". The problem is not only are they expensive. She did not tolerate the fitting process well at all. Then she lost one side the very first trip. I may take another run at them later. Yes, the armrests in combination with the front seat back appear to be the ticket. For sure the way to go and apparently it can be an aftermarket deal rather than a custom deal.

:agree: And, for budget reasons, look for a 2011 or 2012 or earlier RT; it will come with the smaller 2-cylinder engine which should be plenty adequate for your purposes.

Ditto the above comments, and if you go down the RT (or F3) route (I'd suggest you will probably get the best deal on a 'post heat recall' 2013 RT - easily the best of the V-Twin RT's!

Thanks, I would love to have some of the bikes I see on the forum. But it is just not realistic within a budget. We really will mostly be riding in a 30 or 40 mile radius, around town and to other nearby small towns. It's my understanding the low center of gravity creates the illusion of "Go Fast!" enough at least she would be thrilled.

Missus & I wear Shoei GT-Air full face helmets fitted with a UClear Intercom system that doesn't require a boom mic & allows a bluetooth link to my phone that enables it to transmit noise masking 'white noise' to the speakers while we aren't talking about something - bloody brilliant!! The helmets have removable &/or interchangable ear pads that allow me to wear my hearing aids and the system will alsoallow bluetooth connection to other units & devices to allow stuff like bike to bike or bike to car comms when travelling in company. I think this link might work for you:

Thanks, that sounds like the ticket. And I have been asking the ambient noise question on motorcycle forums for literally years. I will have to find someplace that has them instock. I have spent a ton of money over the years on stuff only to find out Chloe will not tolerate for one reason or another. But I would more than happy to spend more on something she tolerates and does the job, thanks.

https://www.ucleardigital.com/shop/helmet-audio/powersports/amp-go-bluetooth-helmet-audio-system/

Personally, I would strongly recommend that you DO NOT fit a seat belt to your Spyder... (again, former paramedic, seen too many really horrific injuries to ever suggest anyone do that! :yikes: ) But if you are still concerned despite knowing that passengers can & do go to sleep back there due to the comfort & security of the pillion seating on the RT (or F3!) with backrests & arm rests, there are velcro & strap on 'pillion security straps' available that allow your pillion passenger to be strapped to you.... I haven't gone searching for that one but I'm pretty sure there has been at least one such product discussed here on this Forum, & they shouldn't be too hard to find on the interwebs... I've seen quite a few here in Aust, they come in a range of sizes to suit adults, kids of various ages/sizes, and even pets! Quite secure once attached; altho the pillion is left sitting comfortably behind you they simply aren't going to fall off!!

Thanks again. As a child I ran over myself with a riding mower. I am acutely aware how the slightest moment of inattention can result in a lifetime of harm. And again, not sure I could live with myself knowing I allowed a harmful situation to actually result in harm to my little girl....... Never far from my mind.

 

[MRH]

I photograph kids, so I have some experience with kids who have special needs. I'm probably most concerned about the fact that when you are riding, she will be alone in many respects. You won't be able to see her easily, and it will be difficult for her to communicate with you. If her brain doesn't work in such a way that she will naturally tend to her own safety, even when she is having fun, a Spyder may not be your match.

I tend to agree with the poster who suggested a Slingshot. The used market is weak, and I am told there a lot of them out there with very low mileage. She will be strapped in right next to you, and it will be much closer to the experience you have with her in your ATV. They can get hot, so they are better suited to days with more moderate temperatures (which also means they are comfortable when it may be too cold for a Spyder).

Let's face it, you get a lot of joy from sharing in her excitement, and I imagine she gets as much joy from spending time with her dad. If there ever was an instance when side-by-side trumped having a more motorcycle-like experience, I think this is it. You'll be less stressed and have more fun with the added safety of the car-like configuration of a Slingshot.