Adjust camber on RT front end

[locomotion40]

I have an issue with my 2011 Spyder RT. The right front tire is wearing out on the inner edge. Everything I read says this is camber adjustment. BRP says there is no camber adjustment only toe in/out. Getting a new tire, dealer wants $250 to align front end. If what i read is correct the only thing they can adjust is toe in/out. I am not sure that would solve the inner edge tire wear. Anyone out there have any idea whats right or wrong? BTW tire pressure is correct. Would spring suspension adjustment help? Mine adjust mechanically on a cam like the shocks on my old two wheelers. If that does help would I want soft or harder to help the wear issue?

 

[JayBros]

See pg 124 of your operator's guide. It tells you to rotate the front tires because you can't adjust the camber. You must dismont the tires and install them on the opposite rims if you are using directional Crapendas. You are not running nine year old tires are you? Find another dealer if your current stealership wants $250 even for a Rolo laser alignment.

 

[BajaRon]

Get you Spyder laser aligned with the ROLO system. $250 is way too high. Caster/Camber is not adjustable on the Spyder. At least not adjustable by any reasonable means. Getting the Toe adjusted correctly, with the right tire pressures should correct your wear issues.

 

[SportsterDoc]

With inner wear on front, it would seem right is toed out, rather than in, requiring lengthening the tie rod length on the right side (if Sypder is like Ryker with tie rods rear of tire center), however, this may affect handlebar alignment, requiring both sides to be adjusted.

With zero toe, a 4 wheel vehicle would wander.

Typical toe-in on a late model Nissan Frontier is 1/16" (1.588 mm)

Easy check is to use two yard sticks, expanding from inside of each tire/wheel, as far up as the yard sticks will clear to rear, then again to the front, expecting the front measurement to be 1/16" less than rear, if measured 1/2 way up front and 1/2 way up rear of front tires.

BRP specs for all Spyders is 0.5 mm.

However, instructions included with a Roland Lindsay laser alignment kit, recommends 1.0 - 2.0 mm, except 1.5 mm to 2.5 mm for RT, to reduce twitchiness.

 

[cptjam]

We will be at the Deland Road Warriors rally. Bring it it me, and I’ll fix it. Joe

 

[cptjam]

What is the tolerance on toe-in spec?

We are ok with 125000” @ 150”

 

[SportsterDoc]

Thanks, Joe.
Post 4 revised after researching spec.
You are welcome to correct any aspect of that post.

 

[cptjam]

No worries, Doc! Looking forward to meeting you! Joe

 

[locomotion40]

See pg 124 of your operator's guide. It tells you to rotate the front tires because you can't adjust the camber. You must dismont the tires and install them on the opposite rims if you are using directional Crapendas. You are not running nine year old tires are you? Find another dealer if your current stealership wants $250 even for a Rolo laser alignment.

No idea how old. Bought it used 3 years ago

 

[locomotion40]

Thanks, will try this

 

[SportsterDoc]

A year ago, I bought a 1989 Ford F250 for my son's family for ranch/farm duties.
Although I enjoy wrenching (most of the time), living in a HOA and having a minimal garage (supposedly 20x20), I paid for initial service, including new water pump (precaution at 108K miles), belts, hoses and a 4 wheel alignment.

Thus I would be inclined to recommend a proper alignment and laser would be the easiest/least complicated for accuracy, to insure parallelism, minus toe-in, in relation to the rear tire.

However, for an obvious and serious issue, such as pulling strongly to one side (front tires properly and evenly inflated, rear wheel belt adjustment even) or inside/outside tire wear, simply measuring may tell you a lot. If the front inside wear is not too severe, you may correct enough to save the tire, then take Joe up on his offer for a more accurate alignment.

 

[PMK]

While the change is very subtle, adjusting for proper ride height will keep camber within the design specs. As the suspension compresses or extends, the camber can change. Heavier or lighter riders will sometimes want to adjust ride height not only for best clearance but also for best camber setting.

Spyders are a simple steering design. With only toe setting adjustment, this is their only common trait shared with a car. Unfortunately, Spyders are prone to bump steer, where as the suspension compresses and extends, the wheel on the side will toe in and out with suspension movement. This can not be eliminated without a redesign of the steering system.

So, a Spyder aligned at the correct specs, may see improper alignment based on rider weight if the suspension is compressed.

 

[locomotion40]

While the change is very subtle, adjusting for proper ride height will keep camber within the design specs. As the suspension compresses or extends, the camber can change. Heavier or lighter riders will sometimes want to adjust ride height not only for best clearance but also for best camber setting.

Spyders are a simple steering design. With only toe setting adjustment, this is their only common trait shared with a car. Unfortunately, Spyders are prone to bump steer, where as the suspension compresses and extends, the wheel on the side will toe in and out with suspension movement. This can not be eliminated without a redesign of the steering system.

So, a Spyder aligned at the correct specs, may see improper alignment based on rider weight if the suspension is compressed.

Thanks will try stiffening my suspension. there are always two of us on it

 

[AeroPilot]

Locomotion, our 11 RT had the wear on the inside of the right front as you described, and was cured by a good ROLO alignment by Lamonster garage. I did rotate the OEM tires by remounting as Jaybros described, but that was many years ago.

We put 14 inch Michelin Defenders on front and a 15 inch Defender on back soon after and as I recall they were still in good shape when we traded the 11 RT about five years later with 76,000 miles on it...
I dont recall if the Defenders were non-directional, but probably swapped front wheels if they were.

 

[PinkRosePetal]

There is a difference in the wear pattern between a toe-out condition and a camber issue.

If it's camber the wear pattern is one sided but the tread blocks are worn evenly because the tyre is still running straight ahead although side loaded by its lean angle.

If it's toe out the inner blocks if the tread will be worn at an angle and normally have a slightly rounded front edge and a feather on the rear edge. This is because the tread blocks are being dragged across the road surface because the wheel is not pointing exactly in the direction of travel, ie. not directly ahead when the Spyder is travelling straight ahead.

The reason it's the inside of the left side tyre which shows wear when toed out: This is only the case for those countries which drive on the right side of the road - left side driving will wear the inside of the right front tyre.
When travelling on a road with a camber - most roads to some degree - the camber leans downhill toward the right roadside. Just like a car, the Spyder will run down the road camber when travelling straight ahead and the driver will apply a little left turn to compensate, natural correction to drive straight will do this without the driver being aware of it. If the wheels are toed out then the right wheel tends to straighten because of the slight left turn being applied, however, the left wheel now has the toe out plus a bit of left turn so is running well out of alignment and dragging the inside edge causing the characteristic wear and feathering of the tread blocks.

Note that if the wheels were toeing in too much it would be the outside of the right tyre which would suffer (right-hand driving).


Now, since it's the inside of your right tyre showing wear I'd be looking for a cause other than wheel alignment, first off I'd check the top ball joint on the right-hand side and also the tie-rod ball joints. Either of these would allow the wheel to turn outwards past parallel. They'd also allow the wheel to 'float' a little so I'd expect a degree of wandering when travelling straight but the road surface is less than good. But, any wear or failure of some part of the front suspension could be the cause.

The right side rides the gutter so takes a bit more of a beating than the left side.

I guess if your rear wheel is out of alignment enough to steer the Spyder to the left then you would unconsciously steer to the right; this combined with a bit of toe out might force your right front wheel to be turned out and drag somewhat. Check out the tread blocks and look for feathers on the block trailing edges to identify whether the wheel is dragging or simply leaning.

Good luck in checking it out...

 

[Flamewinger]

I found that my suspension was gone and had to break the adjustment rings and stiffen them. then replaced with new stiffer shocks. My ST was aligned and the OEM shocks didn't last long.