Aces Has Landed

[Dan McNally]

Snake oil has been sold to the unsuspecting for recorded history. Show me an independent long term laboratory analysis that any aftermarket fuel additive does any good, especially the return for the cost. I do know the cost of additives is a ripoff. We all squeel about the cost of a gallon of gas at say $3.50. An 8oz bottle of typical gas additive at $5 equals 62.5 cents per liquid oz. A liquid gallon contains 128 ounces, so your additive costs you $80.00 a gallon, in effect! Makes the petroleum additive marketers a lot of money, and results are subjective because by using additives you cannot tell if they really doing anything in your engine, as you have no comparison. Being in the fuel systems business for 40 years, I can tell you We have made tons of money cleaning the muck out of fuel systems from overuse of gas additives. Just my 2 cents worth.

I would not be interested in an octane booster to save money, but to allow me to use readily available 87 octane ethanol-free gas on my Spyder which requires 91 octane as the minimum. Ethanol is hard on small engines and I think my engine would last longer if this stuff works to increase octane.

 

[jcthorne]

OK. This tread got me to actually go read the info at the web site. Yep, from the first paragraph its absolutely snake oil. Look folks, anyone that leads their sales pitch with:

5 times the synthetic cylinder lubricant to reduce bore, ring & valve wear by up to 600% and valve recession by 360%

Is selling snake oil. It may have 5 times something (the claim does not say 5 times what) but it cannot reduce wear on anything by 600%. If you reduce wear by 100%, you have eliminated wear. What they are claiming is that it DEPOSITS 5 times what normal gasoline wears. Really? This is a good thing even if true?

Save your money folks. If there was some majic elixir that did all sorts of wonderful things in fuel, it would be marketed by major oil companies in brutal competition with each other. Come to think of it, there is one that works very well and is marketed and backed by lots of industry standard testing. Techron. Patented by Chevron does exactly what it says it will do. But it does not claim to raise octane 9 grades.

An ounce of anything simply cannot slow the rate of combustion (and burn cleanly enough) to raise the octane of six gallons gasoline from 87 to 96. Octane is raised by removing the light ends of the gasoline mix leaving the longer carbon chains. (overly simple description) but an additive simply cannot do this with the claimed effectiveness. The fast burning lighter carbon chains are still there.

County fair grade snake oil sales.....

 

[CruiseRT]

OK. This tread got me to actually go read the info at the web site. Yep, from the first paragraph its absolutely snake oil. Look folks, anyone that leads their sales pitch with:

5 times the synthetic cylinder lubricant to reduce bore, ring & valve wear by up to 600% and valve recession by 360%

Is selling snake oil. It may have 5 times something (the claim does not say 5 times what) but it cannot reduce wear on anything by 600%. If you reduce wear by 100%, you have eliminated wear. What they are claiming is that it DEPOSITS 5 times what normal gasoline wears. Really? This is a good thing even if true?

Save your money folks. If there was some majic elixir that did all sorts of wonderful things in fuel, it would be marketed by major oil companies in brutal competition with each other. Come to think of it, there is one that works very well and is marketed and backed by lots of industry standard testing. Techron. Patented by Chevron does exactly what it says it will do. But it does not claim to raise octane 9 grades.

An ounce of anything simply cannot slow the rate of combustion (and burn cleanly enough) to raise the octane of six gallons gasoline from 87 to 96. Octane is raised by removing the light ends of the gasoline mix leaving the longer carbon chains. (overly simple description) but an additive simply cannot do this with the claimed effectiveness. The fast burning lighter carbon chains are still there.

County fair grade snake oil sales.....

I totally agree. If it was magic everyone would be selling it.

 

[Bob Denman]

If your snake is squeaky...

Buy some snake oil! :thumbup:
:shocked:

 

[bmccaffrey]

Guess I need to weigh in on this being it was my comment that got Ron to try this.
There is a simple test.Take a can aluminum preferably beer empty of course:cheers:
Turn upside down so u got smooth surface anything will work does not have to be a can.
Put some ace on one and other additives on some more stabil sea foam ect. Set them on fire let them burn out and see whats left.
I am not defending or promoting this i don't get a dime. I was encouraged to try this and i ran it all last summer in 2013 rs with great results and simply was sharing beneficial information to help others.
And yes u can use 87 octane.
I will continue to use until my numbers tell me differant.:clap::yes::firstplace:

 

[jcthorne]

Guess I need to weigh in on this being it was my comment that got Ron to try this.
There is a simple test.Take a can aluminum preferably beer empty of course:cheers:
Turn upside down so u got smooth surface anything will work does not have to be a can.
Put some ace on one and other additives on some more stabil sea foam ect. Set them on fire let them burn out and see whats left.
I am not defending or promoting this i don't get a dime. I was encouraged to try this and i ran it all last summer in 2013 rs with great results and simply was sharing beneficial information to help others.
And yes u can use 87 octane.
I will continue to use until my numbers tell me differant.:clap::yes::firstplace:

What numbers and how do you make the claim you can use 87 octane when the 2013 and newer bikes require 91 minimum. Have you had some API tests run to show this stuff turns 87 into something north of 91? As is usually the case with all snake oil, lots of folks that can be talked into believing most anything, especially when $$ is involved. But ZERO analytical data to show ANY of it is true.

The difference between magic and science is education.

 

[Bob Denman]

Let's all play nicely on a Friday afternoon... :shocked:

 

[Dan McNally]

Let's all play nicely on a Friday afternoon... :shocked:

There is always a spoil sport! :banghead: BRP really needs to get Bob his new :spyder2:, fast! :roflblack:

 

[Bob Denman]

pps: Sorry... pps:

 

[Spydel]

Minimum versus Required Octane for 2013s

According to the 2013 operator's manual 87 octane is the MINIMUM and 91 octane is RECOMMENDED. However, it states to "Use premium unleaded fuel for optimum engine performance." which to me is 93 octane.

 

[Pandy]

expensive and colorful aren't great selling points...!! :roflblack::roflblack: .... opcorn:opcorn:

Works okay for wine

 

[bmccaffrey]

[QUOTEdon'tthit rne;748646]What numbers and how do you make the claim you can use 87 octane when the 2013 and newer bikes require 91 minimum. Have you had some API tests run to show this stuff turns 87 into something north of 91? As is usually the case with all snake oil, lots of folks that can be talked into believing most anything, especially when $$ is involved. But ZERO analytical data to show ANY of it is true.

The difference between magic and science is education.[/QUOTE]

Again don't shoot the messenger:gaah:? I use it and will continue.
I don't make It . Im sure if you contact them they can give you the data :shocked:

 

[Guzzi]

What numbers and how do you make the claim you can use 87 octane when the 2013 and newer bikes require 91 minimum. Have you had some API tests run to show this stuff turns 87 into something north of 91? As is usually the case with all snake oil, lots of folks that can be talked into believing most anything, especially when $$ is involved. But ZERO analytical data to show ANY of it is true.

The difference between magic and science is education.

I absolutely agree with JCTHORNE!! Remember folks, at least those of you that are old enough, Standard Oil marketed their "White Crown" unleaded gas from 1925 up thru the breakup of Standard Oil in the 1960's. What do you think "White Crown" gas was; well hello! It was simply ethanol blended gas, without lead. This came about in the early 1920's primarily because John D. Rockefeller didn't want to pay Ethyl Corporation for the right to use their lead additive in all his fuels, so he introduced White Crown ethanol gas (commonly called white gas) as an alternative to their "RED CROWN (regular), and GOLD CROWN (premium) gas, with Tetraethyl lead. Millions of vehicles used this gas daily, and the only effect was slightly shorter engine life from recessed valves, and ring wear. Bear in mind that vehicles of older vintage did not have the engine life expectancy of todays manufacturing and metallurgical marvels (like your Can-Am engine). You were lucky in 1950 if your flathead 6 cyl or any other engine got over 50000 miles, without a ring and valve job. A Harley-Davidson or Indian engine was worth maybe 20000 miles, if you were lucky. Using ethanol gas might have cost you 10% of overall engine life back then, but today, we have machining, metallurgical, and manufacturing techniques so precise, a normal engine will go a couple of hundred thousand miles plus, with only minimal oil changes and maintenance. So, I don't know of a single Can-Am or other vehicle engine out there that has failed due to the use of unleaded ethanol fuels, and besides all of the engineering has been done for you in your Can-Am or any other vehicle, so you can use modern fuels without any problems. The only problems we normally see with gasoline of any type, is in engines that "SET" mostly, or the overuse of additives. If you do not use or ride them, you will have fuel system problems. This is true with any vehicle, and was also true many decades ago, so nothing has really changed. If you feel comfortable using additives, then have at it, call it anything you wish, but it is still very expensive Snake Oil! IMHO
:yikes:

 

[Dan McNally]

According to the 2013 operator's manual 87 octane is the MINIMUM and 91 octane is RECOMMENDED. However, it states to "Use premium unleaded fuel for optimum engine performance." which to me is 93 octane.

Check the minimum octane rating on your Spyder, not in the manual. On my 2013 RT Limited, the manual says 87 Octane, but the label under the seat says 91 Octane. Remember that the manual says :"The informations contained in this document are correct at the time of publication. BRP, however, maintains a policy of continuous improvement of its products without imposing upon itself any obligation to install them on products previously manufactured. Due to late changes, some differences between the manufactured product and the descriptions and/or specifications in this guide may occur. BRP reserves the right at any time to discontinue or change specifications, designs, features, models or equipment without incurring any obligation upon itself."

 

[Spydel]

I'm good. I use 93 octane.