A Real Dilemma

[Dingus911]

First time poster with a real dilemma.

The only way I know how to communicate this issue is providing the “Gone With the Wind” version.
I am retired and in my mid-sixties. I have a lot of friends who ride bikes however I have never ridden. I would really like to spend time with my friends on the road, as well as with my wife, but in no way do it on a two-wheel bike. I am just too old and have had both knees replaced. I have however given thought to getting a Spyder.

About four weeks ago I was taking a long way home on a road I do not go down much and saw a Black Spyder RT setting in front of a business with a for sale sign on it. I mentioned it to one of my biker buddies and we went to check it out.

Per the VIN lookup It is a 2011 Can Am Spyder RT-S 991 SE5 B 11. It has a total of 950 miles on the odometer. It was listed for $11,500.00 on the for-sale sign.

The seller is the manager of the business where the Spyder was setting and the Co-Executer of his fathers’ estate. His father was the owner.

It seems his father inherited a lot of money a few years back and went spend crazy! The (NEW) Spyder was one of the spend crazy items. He ended up not driving it much (950 miles) and then died penniless. The Spyder set up for two years.

The Seller went through the Spyder, changed the oil, air filter, installed Baha Ron wires and plugs, replaced vacuum lines with Silicone lines, and a new battery. He said he spent a lot of time getting it cleaned up and running.

I test drove the Spyder along with my biker buddy. It seemed okay except for a small miss when you would throttle down. The analog fuel gauge also did not work correctly. The needle was way past “E” with no power and then would just come up past “E” with power on.

We agreed on a price of $8,000 cash which I thought was a great deal.

I got the Spyder insured and signed a bill of sale the next day with the seller. Bill of sale was “AS IS, NO WARRENTY”.

Well, crap, I did not get 5 miles down the road. Went through two stop lights and up to 60 MPH when it started cutting out and the check engine light came on. It went dead and I managed to coast into a parking lot. It was like it ran out of gas! I called the seller and he came out to help. He could not remember how much gas was in the tank so my biker buddy got a can and went for gas. Unfortunately, it only took two gallons to fill the tank. No matter what we did we could not get it to start. The battery voltage started to drop so the ECM started to go crazy. We jumped the battery from my biker buddy’s jeep but still no luck.

The Seller was gracious enough to give me my money back however I still have the Spyder insured as he had canceled his insurance. I have agreed to work with him and renegotiate the selling price or help with repair cost.

The Seller trailered the Spyder back to his business and worked on it for a week. He could get it started but it would not idle. It would run with the throttle open but would die when you idled the throttle down.

Today the Spyder is at a Can Am dealer about 50 miles away. They are supposed to start looking at it next week.

I have done a lot of research on this site and looked at some videos on U-Tube. I thought I was getting a great deal with low mileage but now have discovered that low mileage of a used Spyder is BAD!
There seems to be a lot of never-ending problems with these units. Some design flaws. Parts are expensive even at cheapmotorcycleparts.com (as we say “High as a Cats Back”).

I am a retired Aerospace Engineer who spent many years working Liaison and trouble shooting on corporate aircraft. I do my own work so I plan to do the servicing and repair work myself as much as I can.

Should I stick with this project or run as fast as I can the other way?

 

[JayBros]

I would put on my track shoes and limber up. At your age, why invest in potential problems, the first of which is replacing 10 year old tires. If you want to invest in a Spyder shoot for a MY 2014 or later bike with the 1330 ACE three cylinder engine with six speed semiautomatic transmission.

 

[canamjhb]

IMHO..... You just dodged a bullet. I would feel VERY fortunate the seller is refunding your money. For not much more, you should be able to find a used 2014 or newer with the 1330 engine. Some like the high revving 998 engine but most people much prefer the newer 1330. And, the 998 is no longer offered by CanAm so that should be a clue. Good luck..... Jim

 

[Revalden]

I'll hafta agree that you should RUN. You'll be MUCH happier with a 2014-2017 RT-S or RT-L. You'll spend a lot more time riding it than working on it:banghead: and you don't hafta spend soo much time at 5000 rpm or higher. Newer ones get about 1/3rd better gas mileage.

 

[ThreeWheels]

I'll throw my 2 cents in on how to spend your two cents.
You will love the heck out of a Spyder RT. Great fun and very comfortable.
Having said that, run from this deal. Run like the wind and count yourself fortunate to have your money returned.
As others have said, get model year 2014 or newer. They are very much improved over the previous years.
You're far better off getting a 2014 with more mileage than a 2011 with little mileage.
If money is no object, go for a 2020. They're the best yet.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I'll throw my 2 cents in on how to spend your two cents.
You will love the heck out of a Spyder RT. Great fun and very comfortable.
Having said that, run from this deal. Run like the wind and count yourself fortunate to have your money returned.
As others have said, get model year 2014 or newer. They are very much improved over the previous years.
You're far better off getting a 2014 with more mileage than a 2011 with little mileage.
If money is no object, go for a 2020. They're the best yet.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

:agree: up to the 2020 purchase ... 2020 = different body style and to me a problematic instrument cluster ( very technical & can't improve the speakers , based what others here have said ) AND much more expensive !!!!.... as someone said V-twin no longer used by BRP for Spyders .... If get a 14 RT you will get your best price and can easily upgrade to a newer model ( I wouldn't but that me at 73 ) ..... having never ridden is a big PLUS .... Spyders are 3 wheel cars, and do not handle anything like a two wheeler .... the " Do's and Do not's Thread has lots of great info for the newbie ... the amount of info from members here is mind boggling .... ask specific questions or you will be un-indated with info ..... I rode MTc's for 60+ yrs. and wouldn't go back there even if I could ..... you walked into a poor choice ( not your fault ) .... had you started on this Forum it probably wouldn't have happened .... there is an F-3 for sale on this site for $9000.00 ( from a long time member ) yes it has 40,000 mi. but the 1330 engine is now " broken in "..... good luck and :welcome: ...... Mike

 

[trong]

Hmm. Another low mileage Spyder story. I myself bought a 2013 RTL two months ago with forty-five miles on it. Apparently it had been sitting for the last seven or so years not running and with flat tires. The dealer charged up the battery and it starts and runs fine. I got on the highway on the way home and realized that the two front tires have flat spots on them possibly the rear tire too. I replaced the two front tires within a week, the rear tire the week after. Then I replaced the battery just to be safe. So far so good. I replaced engine oil at 150 miles without changing filters. I replaced oil and filters at 600 miles mark and everything seems to be fine.
At the time I could get a brand new 2018 RTL for $20000 but I opted for the 2013 for $11000. So far I am not regretting for getting an older model.

Cheers.

 

[ARtraveler]

:welcome: I am very conservative on some things. IMO, I would take the money and run away from the deal. It would be interesting to hear what the dealer has to say. 950 miles should be pristine condition...unless...it was a lemon from the get go. There have been one or two of them...but they do not happen very frequently.

Let us know what you decide to do.

 

[Arion]

You might want to check the iMotorsport website (see their sponsor logo on the home page here) as well. They have a 2016 RT Limited and a 2014 RS. Prices aren't listed but they do offer "click for price" feature. Several members of the forum have purchased from them and I can't recall any negative comments.

And I just came across this forum post: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...ted-in-like-new-condition-with-lots-of-extras

 

[Peter Aawen]

I wouldn't be too perturbed by the 'V-twin' motor' in or by itself Dingus, they are arguably & to many, demonstrably the sportier motored Spyders, and there are many out there (the owners of which would not swap them for a 1330 motored Spyder even if you paid them!! ) that're still going strong, some with 6 whole number figures showing on their odometers.... but as others have said, it does really sound like you've dodged a bullet on this one!! :lecturef_smilie:

You really don't want to buy someone else's problems, and as distressing and difficult as it may be for the seller in this case, it IS his problem!! Even if he gets it fixed now, are you ever going to feel confident in ryding it anywhere? My 2013 RT (the last of the 'V-Twin models' which I believe is, after the 'heat recall', the pick of the crop! ) is ideal for ryding solo thru the local Hills & having a real blast; yet it's also fantastic for the Child Bride & I to just throw in some gear & head off for a weekend; or with a little more prep, a week; or even a month or longer - it's not all that unusual for one of our 'road trips' to last a month or more and cover close on 8,000 miles... with many of those longer miles on infrequently travelled roads where a breakdown might prove to be fatal, but we are that confident in our machine!! hyea: Given your initial experience on this machine, could you ever be that confident in it?!? :dontknow:

I'd strongly suggest that you take your money and look for a Spyder for about the same $$ that's got a history of regular use rather than lots of standing - and include V-twins and 1330's in your search... maybe even ride a few Spyders with each of the motors on offer and see which you prefer! The one Spyder you've tried so far has obviously spent a lot of time standing, gathering dust, & slowly brewing who knows what problems under the tupperware!! :banghead: It could be a simple fix, saaay a blocked fuel filter (hopefully in the line outside the tank!) or it could be a completely munted fuel pump that's inside the tank & so a right pain to get at, only worse to put back (see this thread for recent evidence on the hazards of leaving Spyders standing: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...doned-Found-it-and-i-am-bring-it-back-to-life ) and something that requires a complete strip down to replace/remedy; or it could be something completely different entirely, maybe a chewed main wiring harness; or possibly even something like an ECU that's scored a power surge during jump starting?!? :dontknow: Do you really want to hafta wait & search & pay to find all that out? It could take months if the local dealer doesn't have a skilled and Spyder experienced tech!! :shocked:

The 'V-twin motored Spyders' can be a great way to get into the Spyder world, cos there are lots of people out there who (IMHO, erroneously) think that the bigger, lazier, newer motors are the only way to go; but usually for somewhat less $$ you can buy a V-twin that's revvier, peppier, and livelier; that's a doddle to ryde gently and a blast to ride fast; and that's got relatively low milage with a history of regular, reliable use that'll get you hooked on the 'knees in the breeze' & the Miles of Smiles without too much angst - but because they are older motors, they don't have a manufacturers warranty any more (for whatever that might be worth?! ) so as with any 2nd hand vehicle purchase, it's a little bit of a gamble and you need to do your homework properly and make an informed decision. Me, I would be looking for a V-twin Spyder with a good history, maybe a 2012 (they had most of the bugs ironed out by then) but preferably a 2013 with the heat recall work done (they got all the suspension & frame upgrades of the newer versions, only the 1330 motor wasn't ready in time so the V-twin was put back in, and hence they scored some under-tupperware heat & air-flow issues, requiring extra vents.) Look for something that has been used and treated kindly, and certainly not anything that has much less than 7-8000 miles on the dial! Altho lately, anything with reasonable miles, but not too many, and demonstrated reliability may well come at a bit of a premium - V-twins like this are now sometimes commanding even more $$ than 1330's a couple of years younger! Better get onto a V-twin Spyder while you can! hyea:

Over to you! :thumbup:

 

[LongIsland]

You have lucked out with buying the Spyder from a stand-up seller. You're going to have to make a tough decision once the dealer finds and repairs the problem and you negotiate a new deal with the seller.

The only question I have is why have you kept it insured, and I guess registered and plated, under your name? It opens you up to some liability if it's involved in an accident. The seller trailered it to the dealer, once repaired he can trailer it back to his place, so no insurance is needed. If the dealer test drives it, he can use dealer plates and it will be under his insurance should something happen.

 

[Dingus911]

You have lucked out with buying the Spyder from a stand-up seller. You're going to have to make a tough decision once the dealer finds and repairs the problem and you negotiate a new deal with the seller.

The only question I have is why have you kept it insured, and I guess registered and plated, under your name? It opens you up to some liability if it's involved in an accident. The seller trailered it to the dealer, once repaired he can trailer it back to his place, so no insurance is needed. If the dealer test drives it, he can use dealer plates and it will be under his insurance should something happen.

I only have the unit insured and my insurance company is aware of the situation. The Seller asked that I keep it insured since he had canceled his insurance. The Spyder will not be driven (will be trailered only).

Since I had just took delivery of the Spyder I only had a bill of sale. The title was not given to me as it had to be transferred from the Sellers deceased father to the Sellers name although their names are the same. The Sellers father had also taken out loans and used the Spyder and other “Spend Crazy Items” as collateral on the loans before his death. The Seller paid off the loans with his personal money, in order to get the title lean paid off, and had the title in hand. He was counting on the money from the Spyder sale to help pay off the loan, so he is stuck with the problem of paying off a loan and not getting the sale (money) from me.

The Sellers story is such a sad one! His father and mother inherited $875,000.00. His father went spend crazy and started spending all the money. The Seller had to intervene to keep his mothers share from being spent. He was disowned by his father. Then his mother died of cancer and the father got that money. The father spent all the money and died penniless with outstanding loans. Now the Seller and his sister are stuck with this mess as executors of the estate.

The Seller has demonstrated to me that he is an honorable man. Honor and your word mean a lot to me! I signed a Bill of Sale that was “As Is, No Warranty”. Because “Your Word” and “Your Honor” represents who I am, I am in a dilemma. I will just have to wait to see what happens and work with the Seller. If it ends up being a can of worms, I hope the Seller will agree to let me walk away.

 

[ThreeWheels]

Interesting.
Your last note adds an important nuance to the story.
Your dilemma is not an economic or technical issue.
You face a moral dilemma of keeping your word to someone who is counting on you to take the vehicle off his hands.
In that case, I'll add a codicil to my previous advice.
Wait to see what the dealer says about the repairs to the Spyder.
I didn't catch who is responsible for the repairs, either you or the seller.
If the Seller will absorb the cost of the repairs, ALL the repairs, then for $8,000 you've done well.
However, you need to make sure that ALL of the repairs are completed, not simply getting the Spyder running.
There was a recall on the PTT button. This also replaced the cluster, which reset the odometer to zero. Perhaps it was done and that's why the mileage was so low ?
You said the sway bar, plugs and wires, and vacuum hoses have all been upgraded. Great start.
Have all bearings checked and repacked. All suspension parts should be checked and lubricated.
Make absolute double sure the tires are in good condition. 10 years is old rubber. Consider replacing them as a matter of course
A 10 year old rubber belt is problematic. Anything with any kind of seal needs to be thoroughly inspected from the shocks to the valve covers.
OH, I forgot GET A LASER ALIGNMENT. Absolutely necessary on the earlier models.
Have the tupperware removed and check for damage. Vermin love to nest inside these machines and chew on wires. Given enough time, they can also make a home in the airbox and filter. This can also damage the MAP and MAF sensor. Don't ask me how I know this.
Once fully repaired and restored, there are tons of aftermarket mods to make the Spyder even more better.

I applaud your sense of morals. As I said, a completely reliable low mileage Spyder for $8,000 is a good deal. If you and the seller agree to split the repair costs, or come up with some other final cost, the economic advantage may not be as great.

I hope others will chime in with some more things to be checked out for reliability.
Wait, what am I saying ?? Hoping others on this site chime in ?? That's like hoping it's cold in Antarctica.

Please keep us posted on how you make out.

 

[ARtraveler]

RE: Where is, as is purchase. Almost all used transactions (private party) are sold on that basis. Meaning, there is NO warranty, either written or implied. This means you have no legal recourse against the seller for anything once you make the purchase.

You are lucky in this situation, that the seller is willing to undo the deal. Legally, he does not have to.

 

[canamjhb]

Check with your insurance company. You are probably paying for insurance that is not going to provide you or the seller with any coverage. You can't insure what you don't have an interest in. And, at this point, you don't own the Spyder....... Jim

 

[Eviltwin]

I own a 2010 RT and while it would be nice to have a bike with the 3 cyl motor, I'm happy enough with my 2 cyl version. If you don't have a problem spending the extra cash to go for a 2014 or later, then I would lean that way. It's always good to get a bike with a documented maintenance history, that alone is worth money over one that doesnt.

But if the cost is an issue, then 8K is a pretty good price for an RT that is in good to excellent shape with the low miles. Any bike you get used will have some potential issues, could be running great one day and something goes south the next.

So I'll be the dissenting voice to say that if the dealer can fix the issues with the bike then it still might be a good machine in the long run. If it were me, I would reserve the right to be able to put a couple of hundred miles on it to see if it acts up again before finalizing the deal. Count on some new tires all around and a good flush of the brake system as well. The brake flush should be done by the dealer as it needs the buds system to purge the abs module.

 

[ARtraveler]

I own a 2010 RT and while it would be nice to have a bike with the 3 cyl motor, I'm happy enough with my 2 cyl version. If you don't have a problem spending the extra cash to go for a 2014 or later, then I would lean that way. It's always good to get a bike with a documented maintenance history, that alone is worth money over one that doesnt.

But if the cost is an issue, then 8K is a pretty good price for an RT that is in good to excellent shape with the low miles. Any bike you get used will have some potential issues, could be running great one day and something goes south the next.

So I'll be the dissenting voice to say that if the dealer can fix the issues with the bike then it still might be a good machine in the long run. If it were me, I would reserve the right to be able to put a couple of hundred miles on it to see if it acts up again before finalizing the deal. Count on some new tires all around and a good flush of the brake system as well. The brake flush should be done by the dealer as it needs the buds system to purge the abs module.

Your logic is very good. I like the idea of the couple hundred miles trial after the dealer goes over it good. New tires and brake flush are also good.

I will also add that we recently traded off our 2011 RT A&C at 36,000 miles. We never had an issue with it. Got $10K for it in trade.

 

[Yeochips]

If your knee will hold up RUN RUN RUN!

 

[MRH]

In any given part of the country, chances are there are one or two really good dealerships with great techs with the experience to properly asses and do the repairs. I know who I would trust where I am, and many, many more that I would not.

Does anybody here have a recommendation for a good dealership or mechanic to give a good evaluation and to proactively address the issues with letting it sit for such a long time?

I would have also said to run, had it been the "right" thing to do, but in this case I would also be appreciative the seller's good character and at least check into all the possibilities first.

 

[Dingus911]

Thanks to everyone for their recommendations. I have met some nice Spyder Owners through the website who live close to me. Their advice and yours has helped me come a decision as well as with the outcome of the unit at the dealers.
The dealer is unable to clear the error codes and has no idea of the problem. They believe there is a problem somewhere in the fuel system.
My guess is the unit has set up for two years with Ethanol fuel throughout the fuel system. There is a potential problem from the fuel tank all the way to the throttle body.
The owner has agreed to cancel the deal.
I will be looking for a deal on a 2014 or newer model RT in the future!