30 Tooth Sprocket-new Spyder owner

[Wattsmyname]

I am trying to get use to this Spyder, after riding BMW's, this engine revs WAY too much at highway speeds not to mention the poor fuel mileage. I have read on the forum of guys with the 30 tooth driver sprocket but seems they are not currently made, I found a guy that had a Brand New one he never installed but has sold his Spyder so now I have one but when it wears out?? Is there not someone else making another 30 tooth? To me, this is a major flaw with this machine, probably won't be seeing anything close to 200,000 miles out of these motors. Anyone with other suggestions would be appreciated, thanks

 

[Freddy]

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?30539-30t-sprocket&highlight=sprocket

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?19982-30-tooth-front-Sprocket&highlight=sprocket

 

[Bootie]

Speed v Revs

I am trying to get use to this Spyder, after riding BMW's, this engine revs WAY too much at highway speeds not to mention the poor fuel mileage. I have read on the forum of guys with the 30 tooth driver sprocket but seems they are not currently made, I found a guy that had a Brand New one he never installed but has sold his Spyder so now I have one but when it wears out?? Is there not someone else making another 30 tooth? To me, this is a major flaw with this machine, probably won't be seeing anything close to 200,000 miles out of these motors. Anyone with other suggestions would be appreciated, thanks

You didn't say what the specifics were but the Rotax 990 is a High Rev engine. As others have posted, this engine doesn't even come alive until you hit 5000 RPM. In 5th Gear at 5500 RPM you'll be doing 75 MPH. Sorry, but unless somebody has fussed with the gears and/or sprockets, already, I don't see a problem.
IMHO:lecturef_smilie: putting a 30tooth sprocket on would be a disaster. Your top speed would suffer greatly.:sour:

 

[Wattsmyname]

30 Tooth Sprocket

Thanks for the response, I do realize this is a higher reving engine than say a BMW Boxer, I am also a dirt bike guy that has run 2 strokes that require high RPM to produce HP, they also have short lifespans due to several things especially the higher RPM's they run at. This engine has more than enough torque/HP to run effortlessly at 70 mph at 4200 to 4500 rpm, not nearly as low as a BMW but much lower than 5500. Of course it would not do 0-60 in 4.5 but that is no issue for me nor is top speed. Since the front sprocket is such a simple modification, it would be good for those of us that are more concerned with engine life and fuel economy to have a choice of a slightly larger drive sprocket direct from Can Am.

 

[BajaRon]

Thanks for the response, I do realize this is a higher reving engine than say a BMW Boxer, I am also a dirt bike guy that has run 2 strokes that require high RPM to produce HP, they also have short lifespans due to several things especially the higher RPM's they run at. This engine has more than enough torque/HP to run effortlessly at 70 mph at 4200 to 4500 rpm, not nearly as low as a BMW but much lower than 5500. Of course it would not do 0-60 in 4.5 but that is no issue for me nor is top speed. Since the front sprocket is such a simple modification, it would be good for those of us that are more concerned with engine life and fuel economy to have a choice of a slightly larger drive sprocket direct from Can Am.

Higher RPM does not necessarily mean a short engine life. I believe there are a few with over 100k on their Spyder already. With a great oil like Amsoil or equivalent, the Rotax may go 200K.

With the 30 tooth sprocket you'll probably have to downshift to 4th more often, and you won't get off the line as quickly. I have not heard anyone saying they got a lot of improvment in mileage from the 30 Tooth.

I came off a Suzuki M109R and it took me a while to get over the high RPM. But once you learn to live in the Rotax world, all is well. Now I just ride and appreciate every RPM my Spyder turns!

 

[Firefly]

You're just asking for trouble IMO

1. The 'gains' you might get from a 30 tooth are minor. Your MPG isn't going to change much at all. The Spyder is a beast of un-aerodynamic brick you are pushing down the highway. The Rotax runs most efficient in a higher RPM range - that is how it was designed.

2. Some of us have had problems with front sprockets and main shafts going bad - bad splines wear. BRP has been covering these under warranty - due to an initial belt tension that was WAY too tight. The current tension spec is now around 25-30% of what the original spec was. If you have such problems while using a 3rd party sprocket - you very well may not be covered for such a failure.

3. Many that had those 30 tooth sprockets wore them out pretty quick.

You're going to get around 30 mpg if you're lucky -- just a fact of Spyder ownership. There are many out here with 50,000 or even 100,000 miles. I'm at 43,000 and other than worn shaft splines - no engine problems-- so my rebuild will have to happen soon --- but it had nothing to do with high revs....

 

[BajaRon]

You're just asking for trouble IMO

1. The 'gains' you might get from a 30 tooth are minor. Your MPG isn't going to change much at all. The Spyder is a beast of un-aerodynamic brick you are pushing down the highway. The Rotax runs most efficient in a higher RPM range - that is how it was designed.

2. Some of us have had problems with front sprockets and main shafts going bad - bad splines wear. BRP has been covering these under warranty - due to an initial belt tension that was WAY too tight. The current tension spec is now around 25-30% of what the original spec was. If you have such problems while using a 3rd party sprocket - you very well may not be covered for such a failure.

3. Many that had those 30 tooth sprockets wore them out pretty quick.

You're going to get around 30 mpg if you're lucky -- just a fact of Spyder ownership.

I was doing some research on final drive efficency the other night (spurred by a comment about our belt drive) and there is some pretty interesting stuff.

It was hard to nail down everything because each application has its own factors. But generally speaking, from what I could find, our Synchronous toothed belts are about as good as it gets.

As a general rule....
Synchronous toothed belts are 98~99% efficient. Reducing tension on the belt actually increases efficiency. Guess that makes sense.

Roller Chain can also reach 98~99% efficiency but here is the caveat. This is only if everything is JUST RIGHT! And getting a roller chain just right is much more difficult than getting a Synchronous belt adjusted correctly. The information I read stated that most Roller Chain drives are running at 94~95% efficiency in the real world.

Lubrication makes a huge difference, sprocket wear and chain tension also make a big difference along with uniform chain stretch. Our belts don't care about lubrication, belt sprocket wear is about 10% of roller chain sprocket wear, tension adjustment is much less critical on our belt drives as compared to roller chain, and our belts have much less stretch (Uniform or otherwise) in comparrison to roller chain.

The typical motorcycle drive shaft is 94~95% efficient.

Weight isn't that much of a deal on our Spyders but belt drives are somewhat less heavy than Roller Chain with the drive shaft systems being the heaviest of all.

So, good news Spyderlovers! We really have the best of all worlds in final drive efficiency with our belts! hyea:

 

[AMTJIM]

Maybe take it to a machine shop and have it replicated before use? Or just wait for the BMW/G&G trike.

 

[Wattsmyname]

30 Tooth Sprocket

That's great information on the belt drive also about the belt tension and worn shafts, I see I have a lot to learn since this is a lot different machine than I have ever owned before. This Spyder only had 650 miles/ 1 year old so hopefully there has not been any shaft damage but I am sure that Can Am would certainly have an "out" if the front sprocket was anything different than stock. I need to research belt tension along with what has caused the shaft damage Spyders have had so maybe I can avoid that problem, thanks for the very useful information

 

[BajaRon]

That's great information on the belt drive also about the belt tension and worn shafts, I see I have a lot to learn since this is a lot different machine than I have ever owned before. This Spyder only had 650 miles/ 1 year old so hopefully there has not been any shaft damage but I am sure that Can Am would certainly have an "out" if the front sprocket was anything different than stock. I need to research belt tension along with what has caused the shaft damage Spyders have had so maybe I can avoid that problem, thanks for the very useful information

Be sure your belt is tensioned at the newest, lowest specification. It's pretty easy to do yourself with a Krikit and a few tools. Who knows, it very well may be at the correct tension. But if you run it at the original tension you can do damage.

 

[woodchuck]

30 tooth sprocket

You didn't say what the specifics were but the Rotax 990 is a High Rev engine. As others have posted, this engine doesn't even come alive until you hit 5000 RPM. In 5th Gear at 5500 RPM you'll be doing 75 MPH. Sorry, but unless somebody has fussed with the gears and/or sprockets, already, I don't see a problem.
IMHO:lecturef_smilie: putting a 30tooth sprocket on would be a disaster. Your top speed would suffer greatly.:sour:

You people are mislead about the 30 tooth sprocket. Like I said many times before that I have over 5000 miles on the 30 tooth sprocket. I don't have to down shift as some people claim and I still have plenty of power. My RPMs dropped about 400. To me that is a gain over the way it is geared. As far as top speed goes, the speed limit is still 65 on some highways in PA.I have read many times on here that the factory sprockets went bad also. True it is aluminum but it all depends on your right wrist and making sure the bolt holding on the sprocket is tight.

 

[Bootie]

Belt Drive

I was doing some research on final drive efficency the other night (spurred by a comment about our belt drive) and there is some pretty interesting stuff.

It was hard to nail down everything because each application has its own factors. But generally speaking, from what I could find, our Synchronous toothed belts are about as good as it gets.

As a general rule....
Synchronous toothed belts are 98~99% efficient. Reducing tension on the belt actually increases efficiency. Guess that makes sense.

Roller Chain can also reach 98~99% efficiency but here is the caveat. This is only if everything is JUST RIGHT! And getting a roller chain just right is much more difficult than getting a Synchronous belt adjusted correctly. The information I read stated that most Roller Chain drives are running at 94~95% efficiency in the real world.

Lubrication makes a huge difference, sprocket wear and chain tension also make a big difference along with uniform chain stretch. Our belts don't care about lubrication, belt sprocket wear is about 10% of roller chain sprocket wear, tension adjustment is much less critical on our belt drives as compared to roller chain, and our belts have much less stretch (Uniform or otherwise) in comparrison to roller chain.

The typical motorcycle drive shaft is 94~95% efficient.

Weight isn't that much of a deal on our Spyders but belt drives are somewhat less heavy than Roller Chain with the drive shaft systems being the heaviest of all.

So, good news Spyderlovers! We really have the best of all worlds in final drive efficiency with our belts! hyea:

Great piece, Ron.:clap::agree:

 

[bikeguy]

I was doing some research on final drive efficency the other night (spurred by a comment about our belt drive) and there is some pretty interesting stuff.

It was hard to nail down everything because each application has its own factors. But generally speaking, from what I could find, our Synchronous toothed belts are about as good as it gets.

As a general rule....
Synchronous toothed belts are 98~99% efficient. Reducing tension on the belt actually increases efficiency. Guess that makes sense.

Roller Chain can also reach 98~99% efficiency but here is the caveat. This is only if everything is JUST RIGHT! And getting a roller chain just right is much more difficult than getting a Synchronous belt adjusted correctly. The information I read stated that most Roller Chain drives are running at 94~95% efficiency in the real world.

Lubrication makes a huge difference, sprocket wear and chain tension also make a big difference along with uniform chain stretch. Our belts don't care about lubrication, belt sprocket wear is about 10% of roller chain sprocket wear, tension adjustment is much less critical on our belt drives as compared to roller chain, and our belts have much less stretch (Uniform or otherwise) in comparrison to roller chain.

The typical motorcycle drive shaft is 94~95% efficient.

Weight isn't that much of a deal on our Spyders but belt drives are somewhat less heavy than Roller Chain with the drive shaft systems being the heaviest of all.

So, good news Spyderlovers! We really have the best of all worlds in final drive efficiency with our belts! hyea:

Good info, Ron. I certainly agree that the belt drive is the most efficient and shaft drive is the least efficient. With the exception of a chain drive RD-350 Yamaha way back there, all my other street bikes have been shaft drive. I thought that one down side of the belt vs. the shaft would be the difficulty of changing the rear tire. But turns out it was no more difficult than my BMW's, in fact it was probably easier. And BMW shaft drives require more maintenance than belts. I like the belt drive and I don't mind turning 5200 RPM at 70 MPH although I can understand that some might like higher gearing.

Cotton

 

[BajaRon]

You people are mislead about the 30 tooth sprocket. Like I said many times before that I have over 5000 miles on the 30 tooth sprocket. I don't have to down shift as some people claim and I still have plenty of power. My RPMs dropped about 400. To me that is a gain over the way it is geared. As far as top speed goes, the speed limit is still 65 on some highways in PA.I have read many times on here that the factory sprockets went bad also. True it is aluminum but it all depends on your right wrist and making sure the bolt holding on the sprocket is tight.

It is great that you're having good luck with the 30 tooth front sprocket. But it is never-the-less a fact that the aluminum will wear much faster than the steel (OEM) sprockets, no matter how you ride it.

I like to ride my Spyder pretty hard. Others pull a trailer or ride 2 up. As you add weight to your ride the stress on that front sprocket is going to increase, no matter how easy you take it.

My opinion (and it's worth what you're paying for it) is that while a few may get by with an aluminum 30 tooth sprocket, it isn't going to do well for most people. I think the manufacturer of these saw the headlight in the tunnel and threw in the towel on this one.

Not necessarily a bad idea, just less than stellar exicution... :dontknow:

 

[BajaRon]

Good info, Ron. I certainly agree that the belt drive is the most efficient and shaft drive is the least efficient. With the exception of a chain drive RD-350 Yamaha way back there, all my other street bikes have been shaft drive. I thought that one down side of the belt vs. the shaft would be the difficulty of changing the rear tire. But turns out it was no more difficult than my BMW's, in fact it was probably easier. And BMW shaft drives require more maintenance than belts. I like the belt drive and I don't mind turning 5200 RPM at 70 MPH although I can understand that some might like higher gearing.

Cotton

I love this kind of stuff! I'm not sure my enthusiasm is universal but I figured there are a few gear-heads out there that enjoy the nuts and bolts as I do.

I'd love to have 1 more gear. I still find myself trying to upshift from 5th from time to time. I wouldn't mind trying the 30 tooth as it might work for me. Except that the aluminum one would end up being a throw-away part. I don't want to waste a belt on a worn front sprocket.

This is what I think. Make a 2 piece front sprocket. The hub would be billet aluminum with a stainless steel (or other harder material) outer toothed ring. This outer ring could come in several versions. 29T, 30T, 31T etc. That way you could change out front sprocket sizes depending on what kind of riding you were doing.

Also, if the front sprocket ever did wear out, you just replace the outer ring. Hey! Dreams are Free! hyea:

 

[r1100rider]

anyone that says the spyder wont pull the 30t hasnt rode one i have 2 rs and one has it one doesnt you do not have to downshift to climb or pass it will pul 2 up no problem it pulls away from stop lite easy it is much less buzz at 65 and it burns 1to 2/10 gal less at fill up as for motor wear the 400 rpm diff = about 24,000,000 turns of the motor every 10,000 miles that has to be worth something in motor life over time, the slpine issues could have been avoided if brp would have looked at everydirt bike out there and used 3/16 in splines threaded the motorshaft then used the thin washer to bend over the nut cant come off bigger spline has more margin for wear works great for many years ,the belt vs chain vs shaft the belt is better than a chain slinging oil and streaching but the shaft on my 20yrs of bmw's has cost me nothing more than a qt of 90w oil put the bike on the center stand 2 bolts brake is off 4 lugs tire is off no belt alignment or tension adjustment way simpler and better I will loose 5% power transfer for that convience anytime no rocks in the $325 belt no belt whine no sprockets to replace no straps to get caught in the parts no dealing with it at tire change no too tight belt then lose the wheel bearings at least you don't have to pull the swing arm like a Harley , the spyder would benifit with the shaft jacking action which puts the tire to the ground and increases traction on take off all that said i love the safety of the spyder and I would buy again but the breed could be improved with some of these things

 

[docdoru]

anyone that says the spyder wont pull the 30t hasnt rode one i have 2 rs and one has it one doesnt you do not have to downshift to climb or pass it will pul 2 up no problem it pulls away from stop lite easy it is much less buzz at 65 and it burns 1to 2/10 gal less at fill up as for motor wear the 400 rpm diff = about 24,000,000 turns of the motor every 10,000 miles that has to be worth something in motor life over time, the slpine issues could have been avoided if brp would have looked at everydirt bike out there and used 3/16 in splines threaded the motorshaft then used the thin washer to bend over the nut cant come off bigger spline has more margin for wear works great for many years ,the belt vs chain vs shaft the belt is better than a chain slinging oil and streaching but the shaft on my 20yrs of bmw's has cost me nothing more than a qt of 90w oil put the bike on the center stand 2 bolts brake is off 4 lugs tire is off no belt alignment or tension adjustment way simpler and better I will loose 5% power transfer for that convience anytime no rocks in the $325 belt no belt whine no sprockets to replace no straps to get caught in the parts no dealing with it at tire change no too tight belt then lose the wheel bearings at least you don't have to pull the swing arm like a Harley , the spyder would benifit with the shaft jacking action which puts the tire to the ground and increases traction on take off all that said i love the safety of the spyder and I would buy again but the breed could be improved with some of these things

:agree: shaft is the future! nojoke

 

[BajaRon]

:agree: shaft is the future! nojoke

Personally, I like the belt better than shaft. But to each his own... hyea:

 

[Lamonster]

:agree: shaft is the future! nojoke

If you go with a shaft there is no changing gearing. On the VTX and the 109 everyone want's to get away from the shaft and go to belt or chain. I'm glad we don't have a shaft drive bike.

 

[Wattsmyname]

30 Tooth Sprocket

Thank you R1100rider, I guess I have gotten use to that tall geared, low reving shaft driven single sided swingarm bike, it just makes me think of just how great these Spyders could be. I know it would not get the 50 mpg my R1200RT gets but the 30 tooth would have to help, the shaft drive is an absolute no brainer assuming the bike is geared correctly. I have found myself cruising along at 70 on the RT and realize I have not shifted to 6th yet, the Spyder...I'm always thinking there has GOT to be another gear but there is not. A slight loss of power is nothing for all the convenience of shaft drive but at least the belt drive/sprockets will allow you to correct gearing that is way off...if you can find the sprocket. I think I might take this new unused sprocket to a couple of machine shops before I install it just to see what it would cost to duplicate in steel, probably a lot but it will not hurt to check. Thanks again for everyones input on this 30 tooth sprocket gearing issue.