Mikey
Well-known member
Let me see, this is a new bike under full warrantee, and you sucked it back from the dealer and going to fix it yourself? As Peter would say, What the bloody hell!! Good Luck big guy!!:2thumbs:
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2021 S2S motor blew up!
- Thread starter Joel The Biker
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Let me see, this is a new bike under full warrantee, and you sucked it back from the dealer and going to fix it yourself? As Peter would say, What the bloody hell!! Good Luck big guy!!:2thumbs:
BLUEKNIGHT911
Sadly Passed Oct 2024 - RIP
IMHO if you open that engine up and can't fix it or it turns out that's not the issue and a NEW engine is needed ....BRP may VOID your warranty. ..... just a thought .... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:
MrMagicFingers
Member
EXACTLY what I was thinking. A repair (or potential repair) of this magnitude... These machines cost to much to mess around with. I can see why you want to this yourself with the ridicules times it takes to get work done and the quality of work with a lot of dealers, but that's a roll of the dice to say the least. You may be opening the door to voiding your engine warranty permanently. You got guts!!!
Tim
ARtraveler
R.I.P. Dwayne
Some good "counter" advise above. Engine warranty could be voided if things go south on the repair. :bowdown:
WisconsinDavid
Member
I wouldn't settle for a new engine... time to invoke lemon law and require a new spyder to replace. Replaced engines can go okay or be a setup for huge problems down the line. I had a replaced engine by GM due to failed bearings that resulted in a truck fire a few years later when something let go ... not a great experience. Just sayin' from experience. Hope things resolve well for you without a lot of hassle.
Piratezz
Member
If you are so anxious bout getting the job done (right), ask dealer to provide new crate engine (under warranty), with all bit's and bob's, and mount it yourself, let the dealer tell they did the labour, so they can claim the hours....
Sounds like a win/win for both, I know my dealer would do this in a heartbeat... getting paid, with no mechanic involved.
just my two cents
Sounds like a win/win for both, I know my dealer would do this in a heartbeat... getting paid, with no mechanic involved.
just my two cents
canamjhb
Well-known member
I admire your ability and willingness to correct the problem yourself. As for warranty, your problem has been documented by BRP at your dealership. I don't think doing your own work on your bike voids your warranty UNLESS something goes wrong down the road. Then, BRP needs to show that problem was caused by something done by a non-certified person (you) and was not done according to BRP specs. In other words, I don't believe they can carte' blanche void your bike warranty just because you put a wrench to it. Good luck..... Jim
MrMagicFingers
Member
I'll see your "I don't believe they can carte' blanche void your bike warranty" and I raise you a "Been there and Done that!"
So a personal story... 2004 KLR 650. Purchase new in 2005 (a leftover) with 3.3 KM on the clock (2 miles for you guys below the 49th). Brand new. The very first new bike and last new bike I ever purchased.
Long story short, these bikes (unknown to me at the time) had a hugely under-designed cam-adjuster for the counter-balancer chain. Failure of this adjuster cam (Doohickey) can and often does lead to engine failure even long after it's fixed if not "done right". I had just over 4300km on this engine when it grenaded. The engine could not be fixed. I owned it for LESS than a year (time off for winter).
I replaced this "doohickey" (that's what it's called by KLRers) myself at 1143 km when I inspected the part and found it broken. I put a 3rd party, properly machined replacement part in when I fixed it.
Unknown to me, fragments of the original "Doohickey" was sitting in the engine somewhere. It simply needed the right bump, in the right direction, with the right force to dislodge from where it was living and it would up in the workings of the engine. It instantly seized the engine. I was over 50km in the back woods.
Kawasaki Canada (and North America) said that had I had it fixed under warranty originally by one of their "competent mechanics", they would have taken the engine out and flushed the engine for parts of the "Doohickey", and that this would have never have happened. They didn't mind the 3rd parts part at all... it ticked them off that I did the work myself.
That was complete BS. Every single Kawasaki mechanic I have ever met says that they would never have done that. It's not part of the documented repair procedure but it's a common rebuttal in a warranty claim refusal for this repair. I made it easier for them when I didn't get the original 1000km service done by them at a cost of $700 (to change oil basically and adjust valves).
Long story short, I spent $4600 in lawyer's fees to get them to cough up a $4000 engine (on purpose... I don't back down when I know I am right) and 2 years of my time. :lecturef_smilie:
New engine installed and a new "Dookickey" and Thermobob (another fix to prevent cylinder damage from differential heat) the day after I got it home. They would not let me install the engine myself but I was there and helping the Kawasaki mechanic!! hahahaha
Long and short... BRP knows you have issues and will use it against you in the future. It sucks. Sorry you are having issues on such a new bike.
Tim
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Jetfixer
Well-known member
Nobody, but nobody, works on my machines but me. So I understand your sentiment there. However, I do have to agree with the others above that you could potentially void your warranty if there is more involved than you think. If it was mine, I would be following your hunch, and pull the starter, but I would not open the engine in any way. JMHO.
Joel The Biker
Member
UPDATE: Went to the dealer this morning with the trailer in tow. The spyder mechanic was not working. I was directed to the owner of the dealer. He said they looked at the spyder briefly and believe the motor IS actually turning over. They are going to check the automatic decompressor. But they could not get it to fire. If it was turning over, I would think it would try to fire even if the decompressor was stuck open. I told him what I thought it was and that the stuck sprag clutch could have been turning my starter, causing the odor. He said the starter would have been fried by now. The bike has about 7000 miles on it. He assured me they would not remove the motor unless necessary. It is hard to find the problem when you cant try and start the motor. I explained my anxiety about someone working on my spyder and how nobody has worked on any of my vehicles since I was 16. He completely understood and assured me that every bolt, fastener, and part would be reinstalled like it rolled off the factory floor. I left the spyder in his hands for the repairs and left feeling very comfortable with them working on my spyder.
My resistance to letting someone work on it comes from when I was 16 with my first car. It blew a head gasket and I took it to my dad's mechanic. When I got the car back, the front fender was covered with dimples from the mechanics belt buckle. There was nothing I could do because my dad paid for the repair and the mechanic was a friend of my dad. Since then, I taught myself how to fix my own stuff and became very good at it. Nobody else is going to have the same amount of respect and care for my stuff as I do. If I couldn't fix it, it got sold, thrown away, or traded in. Currently went through this with a 2020 explorer with 8000 miles. The transmission was acting up, so I ordered a new GMC, and traded the Explorer. If I let a mechanic work on it, I will lose all trust in the vehicle. So, will I trust the spyder when I get it back? Depends how deep the repair is. Time will tell.
My resistance to letting someone work on it comes from when I was 16 with my first car. It blew a head gasket and I took it to my dad's mechanic. When I got the car back, the front fender was covered with dimples from the mechanics belt buckle. There was nothing I could do because my dad paid for the repair and the mechanic was a friend of my dad. Since then, I taught myself how to fix my own stuff and became very good at it. Nobody else is going to have the same amount of respect and care for my stuff as I do. If I couldn't fix it, it got sold, thrown away, or traded in. Currently went through this with a 2020 explorer with 8000 miles. The transmission was acting up, so I ordered a new GMC, and traded the Explorer. If I let a mechanic work on it, I will lose all trust in the vehicle. So, will I trust the spyder when I get it back? Depends how deep the repair is. Time will tell.
PMK
Active member
I was unaware these engines even had an automatic decompressor. Even went so far as quickly looking in the parts book and did not find it mentioned. If it does, it must be on the cam lobes, one decompressor on each cylinders exhaust cam lobe.
Joel, if there is a decompressor, any idea how it operates and where it lives to function on all three cylinders at the same time and automatically cease once the engine cranks to life?
Snowbelt Spyder
Well-known member
Yeah. Automatic decompressor on the 1330? Skeptical. Besides Joel, you’re right. Being stuck activated would still allow an engine start. Because by design, they don’t deactivate until AFTER engine start. I think he’s too used to working on sleds.
spyderdave
Member
I'm in the "what, a decompressor?" group. I've looked through the service manual chapters on the timing chain and head and see no mention of anything that would act as a decompressor upon startup. If someone know differently, please educate me; I'm not above being it.
IMHO, as much as you would hate to give up making your own repairs (and I'm not questioning your abilities), warranties are governed by the stick method; he who has the biggest, wins. BRP & Rotax are non-US manufacturers, enforcing warranties (IMHO, again) would be difficult & expensive. Dealers are fickle, some are generous and some are sticklers, they are the liason's to the manufacturers; you have no control over that interaction. You have the smallest stick.
My advice would be, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING; allow the dealer to do what they can. If their treatment is unacceptable, appeal to BRP. If that doesn't work (& my memory serves me), resort to lemon law enforcement, they usually take effect after a vehicle suffers from the SAME issue after three repairs (check your state law). Lemon laws have teeth, but depend on good documentation. I hope it doesn't come to this, but slow and steady wins the race.
In closing, it's a shame you have to deal with this on a new Spyder and I hope it doesn't sour you on the product. I bought a new 2020 RTL and haven't had a single issue, and I love it! I think there are many that would agree.
Best of luck!
IMHO, as much as you would hate to give up making your own repairs (and I'm not questioning your abilities), warranties are governed by the stick method; he who has the biggest, wins. BRP & Rotax are non-US manufacturers, enforcing warranties (IMHO, again) would be difficult & expensive. Dealers are fickle, some are generous and some are sticklers, they are the liason's to the manufacturers; you have no control over that interaction. You have the smallest stick.
My advice would be, DOCUMENT EVERYTHING; allow the dealer to do what they can. If their treatment is unacceptable, appeal to BRP. If that doesn't work (& my memory serves me), resort to lemon law enforcement, they usually take effect after a vehicle suffers from the SAME issue after three repairs (check your state law). Lemon laws have teeth, but depend on good documentation. I hope it doesn't come to this, but slow and steady wins the race.
In closing, it's a shame you have to deal with this on a new Spyder and I hope it doesn't sour you on the product. I bought a new 2020 RTL and haven't had a single issue, and I love it! I think there are many that would agree.
Best of luck!
Joel The Biker
Member
When I get it back, I will probably sell it or trade it in. I will not be able to trust it after someone else has worked on it. This whole thing really sucks. $35,000 piece of junk. PM me if your interested and make an offer.
opcorn:rsnider1961
New member
From Morgan and Morgan, just in case…
“Many common difficulties emerge across defective-motorcycle cases, such as claims that the problem is related to fixes that occurred in an unauthorized facility. Other issues can include the number of days the vehicle is in the shop. Many repair facilities focusing on motorcycles will keep the bike longer than businesses working on trucks, cars, or SUVs.
It is important for someone who believes they have grounds for a lemon claim to preserve the integrity of their case. Most motorcycle repair shops provide far less documentation than you would typically get at a facility that repairs cars. The shop might not provide repair orders specifically to you, so it is important to establish your own repair chronology and keep a record of any incidents associated with your safety or the fixing of the bike. The costs of repairs should also be incorporated into your documentation so you can present this information to an experienced motorcycle defect attorney.
You might be under the impression that you have no legal remedies available to you if your state lemon laws are limited. However, pursuing a claim under the federal Magnuson-Moss law can assist you if your motorcycle is clearly defective and you’ve made your best effort to repair it but have been unsuccessful."
“Many common difficulties emerge across defective-motorcycle cases, such as claims that the problem is related to fixes that occurred in an unauthorized facility. Other issues can include the number of days the vehicle is in the shop. Many repair facilities focusing on motorcycles will keep the bike longer than businesses working on trucks, cars, or SUVs.
It is important for someone who believes they have grounds for a lemon claim to preserve the integrity of their case. Most motorcycle repair shops provide far less documentation than you would typically get at a facility that repairs cars. The shop might not provide repair orders specifically to you, so it is important to establish your own repair chronology and keep a record of any incidents associated with your safety or the fixing of the bike. The costs of repairs should also be incorporated into your documentation so you can present this information to an experienced motorcycle defect attorney.
You might be under the impression that you have no legal remedies available to you if your state lemon laws are limited. However, pursuing a claim under the federal Magnuson-Moss law can assist you if your motorcycle is clearly defective and you’ve made your best effort to repair it but have been unsuccessful."
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Grandpot
Active member
I think the jury's still out on this one.
PMK
Active member
Understandable to have little faith in a dealers service department. Fully understand having been there with Toyota Tacoma and that was just simple stuff.
Suggest, see what they determine, then decide if they fixed a flesh wound or heart surgery, and base the decision towards that. Flesh wound can often be checked easily for errors, heart surgery into the engine, not quite as easy.
Unfortunately, industries that rely on techs are finding there is no talent available. I see this in the aviation industry, and that gets my attention. Add to this, myself, and friends, that do not want the BS of management and survive fine on less income, pick and chose what we work on, and charge as needed for that, and the customers have no issue paying more or waiting.
All the best with the S2S and getting it sorted out.
Suggest, see what they determine, then decide if they fixed a flesh wound or heart surgery, and base the decision towards that. Flesh wound can often be checked easily for errors, heart surgery into the engine, not quite as easy.
Unfortunately, industries that rely on techs are finding there is no talent available. I see this in the aviation industry, and that gets my attention. Add to this, myself, and friends, that do not want the BS of management and survive fine on less income, pick and chose what we work on, and charge as needed for that, and the customers have no issue paying more or waiting.
All the best with the S2S and getting it sorted out.
Joel The Biker
Member
Dealer left a message today. Said carbon build up on valves was causing no compression. I find that hard to believe. All stock motor. Always 91 octane ethanal free gas.
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