2018 F3 Limited rear suspension.

[Paula]

Hi,
Wanted to pick your brain. My rear suspension is not working right. What options do I have for replacement? It is the self leveling air shock. Can I replace it with an elka or does it have to be the brp one? I am worried about messing up the computer if it wants to sence the air shock level if no air shock installed.

I am no mechanic and apparently niether is the dealer I brought my F3 to. Short story is multiple things not done right while they had it to check my rear shock...

Anybody have dealer recomendations in MN?

Thanks.

 

[MNBK]

My wife and I both have had exceptional service at Leo's in Lakeville. Ask for Randy in service and request for Nick to work on it. He's the only one who works on my wife's and my Spyders.

You can tell them that Dave Smith referred you to them. I don't get anything for it but knowing that you got good service and hopefully are happy with them.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Sorry to hear that your dealer isn't helping much Paula, that certainly takes a fair bit of the shine off owning one of these 'fantastic to ryde' machines, doesn't it?!? :banghead:

However, just bear in mind that there is NO such thing as a 'self levelling air shock' on your Spyder!! Not picking at your post, just trying to make clear to you &/or anyone who may not realise this, but what you've got back there is actually two distinct systems - one is the shock & coil suspension unit, or if you like, a coil-over shock like most other similar suspension designs; while the other is an air-bag height regulation system known in BRP circles as the ACS to maintain the ride height. They are meant to work together to maintain the pre-set ride height (pre-set in the BUDS software for each machine) and at that ride height, still give you the 'factory' ride, which is generally pretty plush, buuuut........ :dontknow:

If you've got a Spyder with the Adjustable ACS (I don't recall when BRP stopped including the 'adjustable' option, but certainly at some stage they went all & only pre-set, removing the previously available 'Hard/Soft' switch, which was mis-labelled & misleading!) then you can add more air or drop some air out of the air bag if you like, but that doesn't really do much for too long, because pretty much as soon as you start riding again, the system will be compressed or expand enough to trigger the 'automatic' bit and that will reset the air pressure in the airbag to revert to & then maintain the preset ride height - the BUDS preset height, not yours!! So it pretty much resets it all back to the preset height as soon as you start riding!! :gaah:

If you only have the Automatic ACS, you don't get that manual mis-labelled 'Hard/Soft' choice anyway, so in the normal course of its operation, the ACS will ALWAYS be using the BUDS Preset height anyway! :shocked:

So bearing all that in mind, we need to know a bit more about what your Spyder is doing.... you post says & you ask

"My rear suspension is not working right. What options do I have for replacement? It is the self leveling air shock. Can I replace it with an elka or does it have to be the brp one? I am worried about messing up the computer if it wants to sence the air shock level if no air shock installed."

But you haven't told us anything about what it's actually DOING that makes you think it's not working right?!? There are a number of options that might help but unless we know more about what it actually is or isn't doing, we might be telling you about an option that'll try to fix something that's not really your particular issue; and some of the 'potential fixes' might even make whatever your issue actually is behave even worse than it is already! It certainly could be the air-bag &/or ACS, but it just as easily could be the shock instead?! And yes, you can replace the shock/spring with an alternative, even if you still keep the ACS! The computer doesn't actually have much involvement in anything the ACS actually does, most of that is simple logic circuits in that system, so it's not hard to do something that avoids upsetting those - IF it's actually an ACS &/or air-bag fault rather than a 'conflict between what you want it to do & what it's actually capable of doing'?!?

A good tech, as mentioned/recommended by MNBK, can certainly help, but can you tell us a bit more about what it's actually doing that makes you think it's not working right?? :dontknow:

 

[Paula]

Thanks for your help and clarifying the system for me. I don't have the button to change the air pressure. When I ride it seems to work for the first 100 miles? Then it starts acting up. When at a long stop light I can feel it raise/inflate... and then all of a sudden I can feel the pressure release quickly. If the light is long it may do it 4 times in a row. If it is a short light I may not feel it at all. Sometimes if I come to a faster stop (back end raises naturally from the stop) I can feel it deflate quickly at the stop. Hubby and I took a short vacation and maybe went 1500 miles... I swear by the last day the air system stopped working and felt like I was riding a rock.... or my butt was just sore. I had 15,500 miles on it and never felt any of that the first 13,000 miles.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Have you done anything/had anything done to your Spyder lately, Paula? Maybe fitted a new rear tire?? :dontknow:

Sometimes, odd jerks & jumps, sags etc in the ACS levelling can be due to that sensor &/or sensor arm being twisted off their intended vertical positioning. The 'height sensor' for the ACS is connected to the front of the LH Swing arm, and if anyone has raised the Spyder off the ground far enough that the rear wheel is really hanging without disconnecting that sensor lever first, it may have caused the sensor &/or bracket to be bent & so give the system odd height readings as the arm won't move smoothly up & down with height changes any more!! You could try checking that out & if the sensor &/or arm isn't vertical, see if you can gently straighten the whole piece of kit back into the correct alignment, so the arm moves freely straight up & down as the suspension articulates and in turn, it pushes the sector lever on the height sensor box itself in a smooth & vertical arc.... :dontknow:

If it's not that, then it's way more likely that you have a leak somewhere, possibly just in one or more of the 'push fit' air hose connectors, &/or a failure in the hardware somewhere ie, the compressor, the air-bag proper, the 'non-return valve', or maybe even the sensor itself! :shocked: A light spray with slightly soapy water on any join, air-hose, or the bag (top & bottom especially) can often reveal the presence & location of any leaks thru the bubbles that appear as air leaks out thru the soapy water, and those air-bags do quite commonly develop leaks either in the bottom, where the bag can sit on any grit or gravel caught in there & eventually wear thru; or in the top where the air hose plugs in, and creates a greater flex point cos the hose is under stress/held at an angle/too tight so as the bag fills/empties it flexes the seam between the bag proper & the cvonnector.... But I'd think the most likely leak sites would be in the Schraeder valve itself (under the seat); in one of the push-fit hose connections; or actually in the non-return air valve that hangs off the side of the compressor.... so check all of them carefully! You can get a better look at all of this by removing the covers up inside the wheel arch (a right pain if the wheel is still in situ!) or by removing all the covering tupperware on the RHS just in front of the wheel/below the seat.... Altho I think it's beginning to sound like MNBK's suggestion might be the best way to go, albeit not too likely to be the cheapest option! :shocked:

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Caswell Cycles in Mora has an excellent reputation maybe you should go there. The way you are describing what is happening makes it sound like a computer setting is off. The high limit may be set too low but if your dealer has no clue they wouldn’t think to check that. If you are still under warranty I would pursue getting the system fixed before I’d sink dollars into a new setup.

 

[Paula]

Thanks all for your ideas. I will try and check the sensor arm. It sounds like greek to me but as I read your response my mechanic (years ago) husband said it sounded right. It is still under warranty. I did have a new rear tire put on it... and come to think of it I never had problems before that.... But I did have it in the shop after that to check the rear shock... They removed my trunk while it was in the shop... I imagine to get better acsess to area.

 

[Paula]

Went out and checked sensor arm. Hubby thinks it is vertical. To me it feels like the top of the arm is approx a 1/2 inch inch more towards the engine than the bottom of the arm. It also looks like I need a new rear tire again . Looks like I will have to take a trip to a dealer soon.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Peter Aawen]

...... It also looks like I need a new rear tire again . Looks like I will have to take a trip to a dealer soon.....

Hang on, you said 'again' - as in, looks like I'll need a new tire again!! :yikes:

That sorta implies that you are on at least your second tire already, so any new tire would be your third tire, in only 15500 miles?!? :shocked:

How many tires have you had?? And were they all OE spec Kendas?? :dontknow: . If so, I'd be very quickly swapping to something else - probably ANYTHING else in an auto tire that matches or exceeds the necessary speed and load ratings but that's not a Kenda would HAVE to do better than that, AND will probably provide better tire performance in all respects too!! Including tire life!! :lecturef_smilie:

Anyhow, all that said, if the sensor arm is tilting off the vertical as you've described at the Spyder's current 'static ride height', then something is wrong - from what you've told us, if it's not a bent sensor bracket then it's very likely something along the lines SpyderAnn suggested - the computer setting is off, or maybe it's the 'sensor settings' that are off! Whatever, it sounds very much like the computer is trying to set the ride height correctly given its stored parameters, and all the other hardware components /air-bag etc are basically working as they should, but something is amiss with either the computer stored 'high & low' parameters &/or the sensor itself or the sector arm fitting/alignment is out of whack...... But whichever it is, if the Spyder is still under warranty I'd be getting it fixed on their dime before you even considered ooking into replacing anything! (Except the rear tire of course - you couldn't pay me enough to put another Kenda on anything except maybe a little kiddies push-bike!! And even then..... )

 

[Paula]

Yea, I average about 8,000 miles on the kenda stock rear tire. I did try a car tire on my last spyder but traded it in before I could tell what I thought of the tire. When my warranty runs out I will probaby try a car tire again. I think this time I am going to try the kenda Kanines if dealer has them. I checked milage and am now up to 17,500 miles after vacation. It will be my 3rd rear tire. Fronts aren't to the wear bars yet but close enough for a change out- still on first front tires.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Yeah, I know many who would say that's OK mileage for a Hi-performance Motorcycle tire, but I've yet to find too many people who know anything about the sort of performance they should expect from those sorts of Hi-po m/cycle tires that would even in their wildest dreams include Kendas in anything even vaguely related to the 'Hi-performance tire' category!! :shocked: And I'm really not at all sure about the Kenda Kanines being any better than the OE spec Kendas that come from the factory on our Spyders - after all, the Kanines are made in the same factory and to the same specs!?! :shocked: How can you expect anything different if you do everything the same?!? :dontknow: At least with Auto tires, you can see how well they work when fitted to heavier vehicles, and if you adjust their air pressure to suit/reflect the lesser load our Spyders impose, they should work something like that, even if they aren't likely to last quite so long because they're the only drive tire on the rear?! :lecturef_smilie:

Up front, the static load and even the cornering loads are so light that just about anything should last pretty well... even the lightweight Kendas! And if you are lucky enough to get a pair that are round, true, and can be sorta balanced, they sometimes even do just that! However, the significant improvement in ride, handling, and traction that fitting auto tires in preference to the OE spec Kendas (or even the similar spec'd Kanines) brings with it is something that few ever complain about... Well, not unless they don't adjust their tire pressures to suit the load, anyway! It's worthwhile noting that not too many who've converted to auto tires ever (voluntarily) go back! It seems that even most cheap auto tires outperform & outlast the OE Spec Kendas in all respects, let alone the better quality &/or high performance tires that come in sizes you can safely fit! :thumbup:

But that is sorta off topic - please tell us how you go with your ACS, hopefully you can get it sorted without resorting to spending a heap on replacement shocks &/or coils, even if you do decide to toss the ACS completely & rely solely on the shocks & coils for suspension AND the 'ride height levelling' purposes the ACS formerly provided (or not?)! :thumbup:

 

[Revrent]

Paula, just went through an issue with my wifes 2018 F3 Limited suspension. It was giving her a fault light. Bike ran fine, just the light. What we learned though this process is that the suspension on the 2018 F3 Limited "CAN" be adjusted "BY COMPUTER" (we went through two dealers and finally got Can AM to help fix the problem). It sounds like you have either a compressor problem (they originally replaced the compressor that did not fix the light). They double checked for leaks (that is a common problem "IF" the suspension is causing issues), and "FINALLY" informed the mechanic that there is a way to reset the ride height adjustment and also to reset the relays but it was all done by computer. BTW it was all covered under warranty.

We have Elka stage 2 shocks on the front and rear and my wife absolutely loves them. The Elka shocks wont fix the problem your describing. As it was explained in another post, the shock and the air ride systems are two separate systems. If you decide to change out your shocks there are some great videos on how to do that yourself on youtube.

Hope this helps
John

 

[Mikey]

That self adjusting system they put on these things are trouble waiting to happen in my book! Some models have manel systems where you set the pressure you want from the valve under the seat, like a tire! This system has less moving parts to go bad, but you can still have a leaky hose or a hole in the air bag! And when that happens you already know what happens, pretty much dead in the water riding on the frame! Elka, or M2 are making shocks that will give you just what you are looking for, more riding, less back pain!! You will have to fill out a form and tell them what your ride style is and what kind of weight your hauling and they will build you a shock that will do the work! And as far as the air system, you will be able to pull the fuss on that pump and ride with out it! Good luck!! Happy trails:clap:

 

[Paula]

Just an update. I had a different mechanic/dealer look at my ride. I decided just to have the rear tire changed and not the fronts yet. They checked the suspension and stated it was "normal". But they rode it after changing the tire and updating the computer. I had the kanine rear put on. My suspension still does the air inflate/drop thing at stoplights but less often and less dramatic. Leads me to think it probably was the sensor arm position after last tire change contributing to the problem.

My verdict is still out on what I think of the Kanine. Back end feels slightly stiffer ride but truthfully I didn't check the air pressure in it yet. I did notice rear end feels more slippery on bad roads than before ( gravel roads, gravel on tar roads in corners, leaves on tar road in corners). I admit those conditions are slippery/iffy for any tire... so can't say for absolute on that. The true test will be how long the kanine lasts for me.

Thank you everybody for your help.

 

[fatboy]

just mounted up three new kanines on the wifes rt will see how they do

 

[acdcking12]

I had a leak in my 2016 F3-T's air bag and it turned out to be the valve under the seat. The mechanic replaced the part inside the tube and it has been fine ever since.