2013 ST thoughts from a RS riders perspective

[arntufun]

After reading and viewing all that has been posted regarding the new ST model I have somewhat mixed feelings.

First and most important to some is, Ibelieve this model falls flat on it's face for the passenger. Adding floorboards is about the only difference I see for the passenger and you would still have to purchase separately the sport rack and backrest (extra $600+). I can't find any info if the passenger will have heated grips back there or not, so I'm just assuming not.

Secondly, the new driver foot position puts the drivers foot closer to the heat and the brake lever right behind the radiator. I hope this heat issue was addressed with this design or those interested in this model are in for some serious hot foot.

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

I'm not at all impressed with the handlebar design similar to the RT. That was one of the things I most hated about the RT and now they go and put the design on this. Although, I love the looks of the new mirror style, it looks like it will have the same issue as the others of most of the mirror reflection will be of your knuckles. Less HP was also an idiotic move in the evolution of all the Spyders models from a RS riders perspective.


Now the good !!!!

I really love the new look of the front end of this bad boy. The RT style lights and mirrors on this is a home run. :thumbup: The new fender style is also an improvement to the current design.

BRP really did a awesome job slapping floorboards on this puppy. I'm thinking the seat should be more comfy than the current RS, I'm awaiting a butt test to confirm. Cruise Control and I-pod hook up made this RS rider very happy with this addition. hyea:Also the RT looking dash display is also a hit with me. I'm taking Lamont's word for it about the handling and the improved suspension, but it seems that it is going to be a plus.


Overall I think the ST is a great middle of the road model to the Spyder line up so I'm hoping these new machines will attract others to consider the Spyder. Not bad BRP....... Not bad, just please work out any bugs prior to release. :thumbup:

 

[Lamonster]

If you want passenger comfort get an RT. I plan on keeping an RT for riding with the wife and a ST for me.

The windshield works quite well and is far from "useless". My first test drive was in the dead of winter and we would swap from all three models so we could compare them to each other. The RS was the worst one to drive because it was just too cold without the bigger windshield. The ST did great and had great wind protection and the console is higher so there's more protection from it too. The windshield could not be adjusted while moving but it was easy to adjust when stopped without the use on any tools. We all tried different heights and on that day all the way up was good.

Heat on the foot would have been great that day but there wasn't any I noticed and the last ride I took it was a warm day and there was no heat issues.

Loved the heated grips on the ST, that was a BIG plus on the first ride.

I would talk about the other issues you bring up in detail but you go into a lot of detail from looking at pictures and I'm going by riding it for several hours. I think it would be wise to do that before you give it such harsh criticism, you may just love it.

 

[FaranH]

I rode the ST for several hours and just thought I'd give a quick response to your post, for what it's worth

Secondly, the new driver foot position puts the drivers foot closer to the heat and the brake lever right behind the radiator. I hope this heat issue was addressed with this design or those interested in this model are in for some serious hot foot.

NO heat issues at all. BRP seems to have finally taken care of this. Forward foot position was completely comfortable.

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

The shape of this windshield seems to do something that height otherwise takes care of in previous models. I found it just right in the all the way up position and was really happy with the wind control and lack of buffeting. It is not just the old-style shield now made adjustable.


BRP really did a awesome job slapping floorboards on this puppy. I'm thinking the seat should be more comfy than the current RS, I'm awaiting a butt test to confirm.
Seat is totally new and very comfortable. It's a flatter shape, which I wasn't sure I'd like for more sporty riding, but I liked it a lot. Very comfortable (of course, I've had nothing but the stock RS seat for a year and a half now, so anything is an improvement!)

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

I rode the ST for several hours and just thought I'd give a quick response to your post, for what it's worth

Thanks for bothe of the postive responses. I have a 2012 RSS and I Want a ST putting a forsale sign now.. Hope that the back rest will fit from RSS but it is what it is.. Think I will do the STS instead of limited.. Not crazy about color choices but I have Neutron Green now so guess Anything is a Step down LOL. And Thanks Lamont for always answering my questions.. You seem like a good guy..

 

[Bob Denman]

Let's face it Randy; that PE is getting a bit long in the tooth...

 

[WackyDan]

I'm logically keeping the 08 GS until the BEST warranty is out in April of 2014 and even then I'll probably wait for the 2015 announcements later that year.

As far as the ST series is concerned. I dig it.. Would love cruise control though I've gotten by without it. I love that new Garnet color... though I thought I would paint my next spyder right out of the box...

So ultimately... I have time to wait and see what little refinements they bring in 2014 and 2015 models and perhaps... just maybe by then I'll get more power and selectable VSS.

As a final note... The prices keep spiraling up. I bought my GS with top and side cases new in 09 for 18k out the door which for a motorcycle in my book - was pricey. Can I afford over 20k on a new model? Yes, but at that price the spyder isn't a toy anymore... Nor is my GS... but my riding is primarily touring and work keeps that to a minimum. YES... these are all my problems and have nothing to do with the ST per say... But hard choices for your friendly neighborhood WackyDan in the future. Maybe the wife can stretch her car to 15 years? LOL.

 

[flamingobabe]

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

you're saying the 25" shield is useless....I purchased that shield along with the wind deflectors and I sit in a dead air space...if I want more air...lean out or up or take the deflectors off...love my shield...have you use the 25" shield?

as far as the new ST is concerned....love the look...

 

[Bob Denman]

Faran,
Regarding the 2013 RTs; There's a lot of folks who are curious if the excessive heat issue still exists... Did you notice any improvement?
Thanks! :thumbup:

 

[pro10is]

Another RS Rider's Perspective

I'm a little baffled at some of the harsh criticism being leveled at the new ST, not just from Randy (at least his critique was well balanced), but from a number of people here. The dust has yet to settle on the announcement and yet strong negative opinions are being thrown around. Let's be fair, other than the lucky few who have had a chance to actually test it, no one else is, as of yet, qualified to offer a full fair and accurate review.

What's probably tainting the view is our preconceived notions, expectations, and perhaps some unfounded rumors. Rather than viewing it on false expectations, I try to look at the new lineup with fresh eyes as if I were a new customer. What I'd see from this perspective is a very well balanced offering. There's the RS with full emphasis on sport riding, the RT with major emphasis on comfort and touring, and the ST with a great mix of both. Indeed I wish I was a new buyer, I would have picked the ST right off as it has a near perfect balance of what I want. The RT is just far too touring oriented for me and the RS is too exposed and uncomfortable for what I wanted. I wanted something sporty but reasonably comfortable so what I had to do, like so many others, was to retrofit the RS for better comfort. Now the ST does that for you. Judging from the majority of RS owners here who have added risers, larger windshield, floorboards, etc., I think the ST design is right on the money. Now you have your own model where you don't have to give up sportiness for better comfort. Plus there are so many additional extras.

Think about it, you get:

• A fully integrated windshield/cowl system, far better than anything you can currently get for the RS, offering great OEM wind protection without ruining the looks.
• Better lighting
• Better mirrors
• An OEM solution for a comfortable upright riding position
• Improved styling
• 15" front wheels
• Low profile tires
• New exciting wheel stylings
• OEM approved trailering
• A more comfortable stock seat
• Incredible new Brembo brakes
• Fly by wire throttle control
• Next generation Bosch electronics
• Options for:
  • Cruise control
  • An audio system (finally!)
  • Driver floorboards
  • Zumo GPS
  • Thermal grips

Now, if all that wasn't enough, add in the new, improved sway bar, shocks, brakes, and a redesigned steering geometry that Lamont says improves handling far better than even high performance modified previous models and you've got a major winner.

I'm predicting that, in time, the ST has a great shot at becoming the predominant model.

 

[MidLifeCrisis]

NO heat issues at all. BRP seems to have finally taken care of this. Forward foot position was completely comfortable.

Any idea what was done? I'm assuming you rode the RT with the same conclusion?

 

[Kratos]

I'm a little baffled at some of the harsh criticism being leveled at the new ST, not just from Randy (at least his critique was well balanced), but from a number of people here. The dust has yet to settle on the announcement and yet strong negative opinions are being thrown around. Let's be fair, other than the lucky few who have had a chance to actually test it, no one else is, as of yet, qualified to offer a full fair and accurate review.

What's probably tainting the view is our preconceived notions, expectations, and perhaps some unfounded rumors. Rather than viewing it on false expectations, I try to look at the new lineup with fresh eyes as if I were a new customer. What I'd see from this perspective is a very well balanced offering. There's the RS with full emphasis on sport riding, the RT with major emphasis on comfort and touring, and the ST with a great mix of both. Indeed I wish I was a new buyer, I would have picked the ST right off as it has a near perfect balance of what I want. The RT is just far too touring oriented for me and the RS is too exposed and uncomfortable for what I wanted. I wanted something sporty but reasonably comfortable so what I had to do, like so many others, was to retrofit the RS for better comfort. Now the ST does that for you. Judging from the majority of RS owners here who have added risers, larger windshield, floorboards, etc., I think the ST design is right on the money. Now you have your own model where you don't have to give up sportiness for better comfort. Plus there are so many additional extras.

Think about it, you get:

• A fully integrated windshield/cowl system, far better than anything you can currently get for the RS, offering great OEM wind protection without ruining the looks.
• Better lighting
• Better mirrors
• An OEM solution for a comfortable upright riding position
• Improved styling
• 15" front wheels
• Low profile tires
• New exciting wheel stylings
• OEM approved trailering
• A more comfortable stock seat
• Incredible new Brembo brakes
• Fly by wire throttle control
• Next generation Bosch electronics
• Options for:
  • Cruise control
  • An audio system (finally!)
  • Driver floorboards
  • Zumo GPS
  • Thermal grips

Now, if all that wasn't enough, add in the new, improved sway bar, shocks, brakes, and a redesigned steering geometry that Lamont says improves handling far better than even high performance modified previous models and you've got a major winner.

I'm predicting that, in time, the ST has a great shot at becoming the predominant model.

I agree. Most of the negative comments are stemming from hyped up expectations by the "CONSUMER" not being met by BRP. So the backlash is to attack what was released as way to show that disappointment.

Most of these negative comments are definitely not legit.

 

[FaranH]

Faran,
Regarding the 2013 RTs; There's a lot of folks who are curious if the excessive heat issue still exists... Did you notice any improvement?
Thanks! :thumbup:

I personally didn't ride the 2013 RT so I can't speak to that. But it would seem odd if they answered that concern for the ST and not for other ones. Maybe Lamont can speak to that one.

 

[Spydr in KS]

• Options for:
  • Cruise control
  • An audio system (finally!)
  • Driver floorboards
  • Zumo GPS
  • Thermal grips

Are these really options to any ST or only available depending in which ST model you buy? I think they are model options, not individual options

 

[Spyder777]

Big NO NO

There is nothing sporty about adding weight and taking away horsepower. That is a big No No for many people, whether they already own a Spyder or were looking to buy and have never ridden one.

Also, many people will come on Forums to learn about these vehicles and if BRP does not keep their current customers happy they are less likely to rave about their new purchase.

Third, the pricing structure is wack. Though it benefits us current 2012 owners, $18,500 for an RSS is too much. One Texas dealership is now selling brand new 2012 RSS for $13,899 in an array of colors to choose from. That's almost $5,000 less than a 2013.

but I LOVE the rims on the new RSS!!

 

[zrc]

In all honesty, I am confused as to why a person cannot have a negative attitude?

I just dont like the initial look, or some of the new tupperware as it will not support older mods, which is fine, but thats only my opinion.

My personal thoughts are that 2 huge concepts have always been engine and ride length. In my personal opinion neither were addressed.

I hope the overall handling is redesigned and better, because immediately replacing shocks or looking for a new sway bar is not awesome when it comes to purchasing something knowing you have to replace it. So I am quite interested in this information. Given that, I think we will still see people change out the shocks for elkas, and even in the RSS pics there are Fox shocks. So this begs the question, would ST shocks (assuming they are part of the re-engineering) fit older models, and if so what would the improvement be? Ditto on the sway bars.

The windshield situtation is just not a big deal to me, I guess it is to others, I already had multiple wind shields and a simple tool to adjust them, so while I respect the idea and like the concept, it doesnt effect me that much.

Unless they are factory HIDs from the word go, I could argue the lights either way, Same with the mirrors, I like my up and outs better, just personally they look more "motorcycle" like and I prefer that. Again my personal preference.

I like the rims, but I am interested to learn more about the physics behind the sudden move to 15s after all the hullabalew about keeping with the original tires for 4 years.

Trailering is the 1 big thing I can think of to be excited about.

I dont have a stock seat nor have ever driven the first mile on one, so this doesnt effect me.

The new brakes look cool, and since I will eventually change mine out, at almost 30k on my stocks and originals I am sure this will be sooner rather than later, I can take advantage of this change, assuming they will fit the "old" wheel housing, which they may not.

I have no idea what fly by wire is, but a lot of people are just huge on it, so I will assume it is a plus.

I am interested in more about the new Bosch stuff and what it means, I would imagine there is a possibility some of the effects are controlled by the main unit and software and some are the actual equipment themselves, so some of this might be coming the existing bikes.

Im not huge on cruise control, audio I do "in helmet", Given that I have a helibar and their Ram mount / power outlet in the center of my handlebars already the gps is similar to mine.

I like the floorboards, and I wouldnt mind having heated grips at some point, but I can survive without them, I have enough crap draining my battery already.

All this being said, I think it is a really neat model, and I think it has a place in the market. That being said when I get ready to buy my second spyder I will be evaluating the ST and RT, but I would be astonished if used RTs dont win out just due to price.

Based on what I see, given engine specs and now 3 bikes 2 with the same central cluster, I believe we will see that cluster migrate to the RS in time. I hope we do NOT lose the RS as an offering, it has its place as well.

My judgement and ideas will lay in what happens in the future with the powerhouses of the bikes, the accessories that compliment them, and how BRP works with existing customers to help old bikes accept technology upgrades as well. I would like to see an RS cluster that is just like the ST and the RT, and it would seem it is completely possible. I have even considered just sticking one on and seeing what happens. But I reckon all the warranties need to be over first.

 

[aka1004]

I don't like the look and hate the price even more.

 

[Bob Denman]

Faran,
Thanks! :thumbup: I was trying to leave Lamont some breathing room; he's been busier any four humans ought to be... :shocked: That's why I figured that I'd pick your brain about it a bit.

Pro10is... :agree: If you haven't laid your eyes, paws or butt on it; what are you basing your opinions on? :dontknow:

 

[arntufun]

Third, The windshield on this new model is about as useless as the sport/touring windshield that is available for the RS. It really wont help you much even when raised all the way up unless a bigger one is offered at an obvious extra cost.

you're saying the 25" shield is useless....I purchased that shield along with the wind deflectors and I sit in a dead air space...if I want more air...lean out or up or take the deflectors off...love my shield...have you use the 25" shield?

as far as the new ST is concerned....love the look...

I said Sport/Touring windshield (which is 14"), and yes it was useless. The ST's shield hieght looks similar to it, hence my opinion towards it. Maybe my opinion will change after a test drive. :thumbup: No, I have not tried a taller one because of my stance on how they look.

I also like the overall look of the ST.

 

[aka1004]

We can't form our own opinions now???
We can't express our own impressions???
Are we supposed to love whatever all mighty brp produce?
People are not posting reviews, just the impressions of what they see.

 

[asp125]

It looks like to me that BRP has just copied what RS owners have been doing for years: raising the handlebars, floorboards, new seat, saddle bags, improving the ride etc. They are not breaking new ground here, just emulating where the market for the RS has evolved into. Myself I have added the Givi kit, added handlebar risers, and will address the saddle soon. I already have a touring windshield. When I'm done my RS will basically be an ST, but I would have saved thousands from MSRP. BRP ought to sell a bunch of STs for the not quite ready for an RT segment.